Off-setting Penalties

El Guapo

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Watching the 49ers/Giants game last night, my wife asked me a great question. A Giants defender got flagged for a facemask - 15yd personal foul. In the same play, the offense committed a holding penalty. The penalties offset and the play was a do-over. I've never understood why the NFL deems that fouls should offset, when they are not of the same severity. One penalty was a personal foul for dangerous play. The other was merely holding. One was a 15yd penalty and the other a 10yd penalty.

IMO - the net yards should be assessed, which in this case would be a 5yd gain for the offense, and it should be an automatic 1st down due to it being a personal foul. Thoughts?
 

AmishMafia

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Agreed! I debate it in my head every time it happens. Technically, if you see a teammate commit an unsportsmanlike penalty, you are then free to commit one with no consequences (except ejection if you push it too far).
 

Poppa San

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I faintly recall they used to have a precedent on penalties such that a personal foul would override an off sides. I may be imagining things again. Like when I recall being a Jewish truck driving life guard that beat up bad dudes when I wasn't getting arrested at civil rights marches.
 
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Good thoughts I’d agree there

Another option would be to keep the automatic 1st down for that facemask, but NET the yards. Meaning in that example the Facemask supersedes the holding call it results in moving the ball +5 due to holding and an automatic 1st

Tell her It works just like arguments with our spouse, if it’s similar severity (minor insults to each other) just make up and proceed like it never happened :coffee: If it’s just nitpicking on one side and a flagrant slap in the face on the other side? Maybe eject the spouse that took the bait and retaliated from the home altogether until the next day (they can sleep in the dog house or their car) Plus they pay a healthy fine such as send you to the Spa or pay for a round of golf
 
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Magooch

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I’ve always thought it weird that penalties aren’t additive/subtractive in that way too. You either end up inflating one penalty or minimizing the other (or both, depending on how you look at it).

Similarly I’ve often thought the way “half the distance to the goal” is assessed is weird too. If the defense commits a 15-yard facemask on the 14-yard line, it’s a 7-yard penalty. If an offensive lineman gets called for holding on their own 9-yard line, it’s a 4.5 yard penalty rather than a 10 yard one. Why not place the ball on the 1-yard line or even right on the goal line in those situations? As with “offsetting,” it seems like sometimes “half the distance” at best minimizes the punishment for penalties in certain circumstances and at worst actually incentivizes players to commit penalties in some situations…
 
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I’ve always thought it weird that penalties aren’t additive/subtractive in that way too. You either end up inflating one penalty or minimizing the other (or both, depending on how you look at it).

Similarly I’ve often thought the way “half the distance to the goal” is assessed is weird too. If the defense commits a 15-yard facemask on the 14-yard line, it’s a 7-yard penalty. If an offensive lineman gets called for holding on their own 9-yard line, it’s a 4.5 yard penalty rather than a 10 yard one. Why not place the ball on the 1-yard line or even right on the goal line in those situations? As with “offsetting,” it seems like sometimes “half the distance” at best minimizes the punishment for penalties in certain circumstances and at worst actually incentivizes players to commit penalties in some situations…
Yeah. If it works that way (half the distance because you are close to the goal line) then if the Offense is 1st n Goal from the 4 yard line and They get a false start it should also be half the distance backwards. You go forward halfway when close to scoring, you should go backwards halfway when close to scoring. It sounds weird but it’s the same concept
 

milani

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Watching the 49ers/Giants game last night, my wife asked me a great question. A Giants defender got flagged for a facemask - 15yd personal foul. In the same play, the offense committed a holding penalty. The penalties offset and the play was a do-over. I've never understood why the NFL deems that fouls should offset, when they are not of the same severity. One penalty was a personal foul for dangerous play. The other was merely holding. One was a 15yd penalty and the other a 10yd penalty.

IMO - the net yards should be assessed, which in this case would be a 5yd gain for the offense, and it should be an automatic 1st down due to it being a personal foul. Thoughts?
Obviously, the competition committee has looked at that for decades and is not too interested.
 
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Obviously, the competition committee has looked at that for decades and is not too interested.
True. If it’s not overwhelmingly causing some concern such as a bulk of disgruntled fans or the league attempting protecting players? it’s likely not going to change. After consideration we probably shouldn’t make changes for light or transient causes, if nothing else to retain the integrity of the history of the game
 
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milani

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True. If it’s not overwhelmingly causing some concern such as a bulk of disgruntled fans or the league attempting protecting players? it’s likely not going to change. After consideration we probably shouldn’t make changes for light or transient causes, if nothing else to retain the integrity of the history of the game
And I am not a fan of 33 yard PATs either.
 

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