McCarthy's legacy

[ivo610]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...ke.mccarthy/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a2

 

[warhawk]

What is impressive about McCarthy is that he did not take over a very good football team. This team was in transition and TT was going to build a team through the draft. This is not a formula for early success but the two of them made it work.
McCarthy and his staff brings young players along quickly and the depth chart is loaded with young guys that have to step in and step up. A LOT of coaches are not comfortable with this philosophy and would rather have experienced players to fall back on. The difference with McCarthy is he is a teacher in a league where most coaches want to coach and not fool with teaching.
McCarthy and TT are paving a new way of building a winning team that is sustainable via a constant influx of youth and this is being scutinized very closely by other teams. I like the no-frills, no-excuse personality that is in the mold of Lombardi and Holmgren.
TT has made some great and gutsy moves but none more important than putting Sherman on the road and bringing this guy in.

 

[ivo610]

Where does he rank all time for packer coaches? Can he move up?

 

[Powarun]

Where does he rank all time for packer coaches? Can he move up?

Um, its hard to say, if he can bring home another Lombardi he is guaranteed at least 3rd spot among Packer coaches, how to surpass Lombardi or Lambeau is well he'll have to stay in Green Bay for a while longer and have his team be the top of the NFL in the Super Bowl era winning three more Super Bowls. Since both Lombardi and Lambeau left with the Packers on top of the NFL.

 

[bozz_2006]

Since both Lombardi and Lambeau left with the Packers on top of the NFL.

You could probably argue that Holmgren did as well. Not quite as "on top" as Lombardi and Lambeau, but definitely in the same conversation.

 

[TJV]

IMO the ranking in the article that has McCarthy currently as the #4 HC in franchise history makes sense. I disagree with the order strictly by winning percentage because IMO Lambeau is #2 on my list and Holmgren is #3. Lombardi won 5 titles in 7 years and I don't think that will ever be repeated. His teams barely lost the first playoff game they played and never lost another one. And his impact went far beyond Green Bay to the NFL and even beyond that to have an impact on American culture. It's obvious to me (and probably almost all of you) that Lombardi's status as the greatest HC in Packers history is unassailable. Lambeau won 6 titles in 31 years. His status as a co-founder of the franchise dwarfs his status as HC, but he's second behind Lombardi IMO. Again just my opinion but if McCarthy leads the Packers to another championship he jumps ahead of Holmgren no matter what his winning percentage is.

When McCarthy was hired he was anything but a hot HC prospect in the league (unlike Holmgren for example) so Thompson should get credit for identifying him and then "going with his gut" and hiring him. At the time I was aware Thompson was a draft and develop GM but wasn't so sure how McCarthy meshed with that philosophy. After all, perhaps he would go along with almost anything if it meant acquiring one of the 32 HC spots in the league - wouldn't you? And having been an assistant coach in Green Bay previously, he knew how special being HC of the Packers was/is. Now it's obvious to all how well Thompson and McCarthy get along. McCarthy sincerely agreed with Thompson's methodology and they are truly on the same page; and we are the beneficiaries of that relationship.

 

[ivo610]

Is it just a title that would put MM ahead of Holmgren?

 

[TJV]

Is it just a title that would put MM ahead of Holmgren?

Careful how you use the word "just"!

For me, yes. The ultimate goal is winning titles so if McCarthy wins another he jumps - and stays - ahead of Holmgren.

 

[Powarun]

Yes, because it would be a great tie breaker. Holmgren developed Favre who've like it or not was a great QB, McCarthy developed Rodgers whom is currently playing as a great QB. Both earned one SB, while Holmegren brought home the Packers a SB and took them to another, so if McCarthy could bring home another title then he would be deemed better than Holmegrem, while you can argue that McCarthy following up his SB win with a 15-1 season would "almost" be just as great as getting to the SB, with that playoff loss it kind of sours things up. I'd like to visit this conversation again once McCarthy is done from the Packers since I think I'm biased to the current head coach than the later.

 

[AmishMafia]

Is it just a title that would put MM ahead of Holmgren?

Personally, I think MM is ahead of Holmgren already. I think MM has assembled a better coaching staff, so that has to be taken into account. Winning another SB would put MM ahead for sure, though. Both were offensive innovators. Holmgren was a better in-game adjustor. MM is the better game planner. Both were great at talent development - but I think that its too soon to call and that MM will likely show up better in this in the next 2 years. I believe MM is the better motivator/leader.

 

[slaughter25]

Personally, I think MM is ahead of Holmgren already. I think MM has assembled a better coaching staff, so that has to be taken into account. Winning another SB would put MM ahead for sure, though. Both were offensive innovators. Holmgren was a better in-game adjustor. MM is the better game planner. Both were great at talent development - but I think that its too soon to call and that MM will likely show up better in this in the next 2 years. I believe MM is the better motivator/leader.

I dont think he quite tops Holmgren, Holmgren will be known as the coach that pulled the packers up out of the cellar. He had two super bowl appearances to McCarthy's 1 and even though Holmgrens second chance wasn't a win, Heaven forbid it, but MM could never see another one. As far as coaching staff goes, Holmgrens 92 staff contained 5 future head coaches, and had a staff that put together consecutive play-off appearances for the first time since the Lombardi era even before the first superbowl win.

MM on the other hand will always be remembered as the Coach that navigated the exit of Favre. I personally dont think there is a better practice coach out there in the NFL right now. MM is vaunted for his planning, practicing, and pregame prowess. But, I think you make a very good point for Mike Holmgren about his in game adjusting. For me my biggest knock on MM is his game day management, I think he has made some questionable calls during his tenure, and sometimes it seems he almost refuses to adjust at half time. As far as motivating goes I think it is a wash.

Give MM another Superbowl win and I agree with you 100%. Greatness in this league is measured in Superbowl wins and 2 will always be more than 1.

 

[Lunchboxer]

I dont think he quite tops Holmgren, Holmgren will be known as the coach that pulled the packers up out of the cellar. He had two super bowl appearances to McCarthy's 1 and even though Holmgrens second chance wasn't a win, Heaven forbid it, but MM could never see another one. As far as coaching staff goes, Holmgrens 92 staff contained 5 future head coaches, and had a staff that put together consecutive play-off appearances for the first time since the Lombardi era even before the first superbowl win.

MM on the other hand will always be remembered as the Coach that navigated the exit of Favre. I personally dont think there is a better practice coach out there in the NFL right now. MM is vaunted for his planning, practicing, and pregame prowess. But, I think you make a very good point for Mike Holmgren about his in game adjusting. For me my biggest knock on MM is his game day management, I think he has made some questionable calls during his tenure, and sometimes it seems he almost refuses to adjust at half time. As far as motivating goes I think it is a wash.

Give MM another Superbowl win and I agree with you 100%. Greatness in this league is measured in Superbowl wins and 2 will always be more than 1.

I think MM will see another super bowl. This team is loaded with talent. The D just needed some major help.