If we draft Williams

[paxvogel]

Does Kampman play every down and KGB alternate with Williams or vice versa. I don't see where Williams plays full time.

 

[route25]

The moment we draft Mario, KGB is on the trading block. :bye:

 

[tromadz]

The moment we draft Mario, KGB is on the trading block. :bye:

thats what im saying, thats why i say package KGB and javon..

 

[all about da packers]

I'm not so sure that KGB will be on the block. The thing is, KGB and Kampman played about 85% (if I remember correctly, I apologize if I am wrong) of the snaps on D last season. That is way too much, no matter who you are. If we sign Mario, I say we can at least implement some sort of rotation policy at DE, allowing all of our DE's to be fresher, and who knows, perhaps even get more of a pass rush?

 

[Zero2Cool]

I'm not so sure that KGB will be on the block. The thing is, KGB and Kampman played about 85% (if I remember correctly, I apologize if I am wrong) of the snaps on D last season. That is way too much, no matter who you are. If we sign Mario, I say we can at least implement some sort of rotation policy at DE, allowing all of our DE's to be fresher, and who knows, perhaps even get more of a pass rush?

85% is too much? These are grown men, athletes they should be able to play 100%. Or are you saying they are not talented enough to be on the field 100%?

 

[all about da packers]

Zero were you being serious?

Um, yes I do think 85% is too much. I meant that during the entire season, they played in at least 85% of the defensive snaps. They ened rest. Tts a tough game out there, and you can't expect to maintain pressure when your two best DE's are winded down the strech, not to mention it will eventually snowball into a position where they become tired earlier on in games later in the season. They are indeed grown men, but still human, so IMO a 4 man rotation to give them some time off isn't such a bad thing.

 

[tromadz]

we have mike montgomery and kenny peterson, who did damn fine subbing

 

[all about da packers]

Trom, Montgomery wasn't really used until the later part of the season, and even then it was on a limited basis. The very few snaps he got, I agree with you, he showed promise.

And Kenny Peterson, as far as I remember, was used as DT. I could be wrong, but that is where I remember seeing him play. Regardless, how good could they have subbed if KGB and Kamp played at least 85% of the downs? I still think KGB could offer a lot to the Packers (excluding his big salary). If he isn't used as an every down player, then I think he could really help our below average pass rush.

And the concept of trading away KGB is absurd, IMO. We would take a large cap hit, and I think that would be stupid. Yes we can afford to take the hit, but the fact is that I'd rather have a few extra million to be able to make some moves or increase offers to FA's, rather than having it count as dead money on the cap. If TT really wanted to cut ties with KGB because of his price tag or some other reason, I would think he would wait until an option or bonus payment is due, and decide not to pay that to KGB. But I'm not sure there are bonus payments or option payments in the later years of KGB's contract.

 

[tromadz]

Trom, Montgomery wasn't really used until the later part of the season, and even then it was on a limited basis. The very few snaps he got, I agree with you, he showed promise.

And Kenny Peterson, as far as I remember, was used as DT. I could be wrong, but that is where I remember seeing him play. Regardless, how good could they have subbed if KGB and Kamp played at least 85% of the downs? I still think KGB could offer a lot to the Packers (excluding his big salary). If he isn't used as an every down player, then I think he could really help our below average pass rush.

Montgomery was MONEY when he was in. Who cares if it was late in the season. Gado came into the picture late in the season too.

and Kenny is a DE. I thought he was a DT myself, till I was proven wrong.

 

[all about da packers]

Oh I agree, Montgomery was gold. But lets face it, he isn't a KGB, Mario, Kamp type player. And personally, I'd rather have all 3 rotating as our DEs.

 

[GakkofNorway]

KGB is way too expensive for a part-time defensive end.

 

[Zero2Cool]

Zero were you being serious?

Um, yes I do think 85% is too much. I meant that during the entire season, they played in at least 85% of the defensive snaps. They ened rest. Tts a tough game out there, and you can't expect to maintain pressure when your two best DE's are winded down the strech, not to mention it will eventually snowball into a position where they become tired earlier on in games later in the season. They are indeed grown men, but still human, so IMO a 4 man rotation to give them some time off isn't such a bad thing.

Did Nitschke only play 85%? Let me guess that's irrelevent because he was a linebacker right? Offense and Defense player alike should be playing 100% of the plays. If they can't handle it they are not 'Packer People'

 

[CalifPacker]

Zero were you being serious?

Um, yes I do think 85% is too much. I meant that during the entire season, they played in at least 85% of the defensive snaps. They ened rest. Tts a tough game out there, and you can't expect to maintain pressure when your two best DE's are winded down the strech, not to mention it will eventually snowball into a position where they become tired earlier on in games later in the season. They are indeed grown men, but still human, so IMO a 4 man rotation to give them some time off isn't such a bad thing.

Did Nitschke only play 85%? Let me guess that's irrelevent because he was a linebacker right? Offense and Defense player alike should be playing 100% of the plays. If they can't handle it they are not 'Packer People'

I agree with Zero2Cool to a point. 3rd down packages, goal line defence, extremely hot days, special blitz mixes, that is where you make changes.

 

[Chamuko]

Zero were you being serious?

Um, yes I do think 85% is too much. I meant that during the entire season, they played in at least 85% of the defensive snaps. They ened rest. Tts a tough game out there, and you can't expect to maintain pressure when your two best DE's are winded down the strech, not to mention it will eventually snowball into a position where they become tired earlier on in games later in the season. They are indeed grown men, but still human, so IMO a 4 man rotation to give them some time off isn't such a bad thing.

Did Nitschke only play 85%? Let me guess that's irrelevent because he was a linebacker right? Offense and Defense player alike should be playing 100% of the plays. If they can't handle it they are not 'Packer People'[/quote


Sorry Zero but you cant find a lot of players in the same ZIP code of old Ray, he is the best LB ever to play this game, so it isnt fair to compare a very good player like AK or an average player like KGB to him, they shouldnt even be named in the same post !!! Have a good weekend...

By the way: White, Hornung, Starr etc those ones share Ray´s ZIP code !!!

 

[IPBprez]

Same here, CalifPacker - 3rd downs are where the Packers have dropped the ball for the last two - three years.... It's time we had instant replacement personel to go out there and step in for the likes of a Gilbert Brown or Grady Jackson (as an example). That means for all phases of the Defense, not just the middle. Have threats at both sides of the DE, either side, would be amazing - let 'em each play only 50% of the game.. each weekend, all damn year long...

Maybe TT is already hashing that out... eh?

 

[Zero2Cool]

Zero were you being serious?

Um, yes I do think 85% is too much. I meant that during the entire season, they played in at least 85% of the defensive snaps. They ened rest. Tts a tough game out there, and you can't expect to maintain pressure when your two best DE's are winded down the strech, not to mention it will eventually snowball into a position where they become tired earlier on in games later in the season. They are indeed grown men, but still human, so IMO a 4 man rotation to give them some time off isn't such a bad thing.

Did Nitschke only play 85%? Let me guess that's irrelevent because he was a linebacker right? Offense and Defense player alike should be playing 100% of the plays. If they can't handle it they are not 'Packer People'

Sorry Zero but you cant find a lot of players in the same ZIP code of old Ray, he is the best LB ever to play this game, so it isnt fair to compare a very good player like AK or an average player like KGB to him, they shouldnt even be named in the same post !!! Have a good weekend...

By the way: White, Hornung, Starr etc those ones share Ray´s ZIP code !!!

You proved my point and don't even know it.

 

[IPBprez]

Here's a late February read up on Mario Williams - from John Lombardi @ Packer Insider:

TUESDAY, Feb. 21, 2006, 3:24 p.m.
Mario Williams, defensive end, North Carolina State

John Lombardi, a former NFL scout and grandson of Packers legend Vince Lombardi, reports on Mario Williams, a 6-foot-7, 285-pound defensive end from North Carolina State, who is coming out as a junior:

"A tall, rangy pass rusher who is coming out as a junior. He looks very raw and needs to improve his technique and pass rush skills. Has the physical tools and looks like he can gain some weight. Has amazing athleticism and quickness for his position and size. When he uses his hands - which he doesn't always do - and long arms, he gets great separation from blockers. Has good up-field quickness. Quick enough to be effective with stunts and games. He will allow blockers to get low on him and will get cut. Athletic enough to bounce back and still make plays. He is a great prospect based on his agility and athletic ability, but needs to continue developing to be a big time player. He has ridiculous numbers, something like 24 tackles behind the line of scrimmage, including 14 1/2 sacks, this year and has an incredible upside. I am not sure he plays hard every down. He flashes ability, but will not always finish plays and will not chase as ******* plays away as I would like. Their defensive scheme has him playing DE in a 4-3, a 3-4 and he will occasionally drop into coverage in a zone blitz situation. But he looks lost in space, probably due to a lack of coaching and experience. Since the ability to rush the passer is so coveted in the NFL, he will go early and deservedly so."

=============================

As you can see - the Scouts seem to have one idea on how to gage a Player -while us armchairs come at it from a different standpoint - never getting into the field, and just watching from the boob-tube, how the hell would I know technique, other than it worked, or it didn't...? Even if you played the game in High School, or College, I think the situation is markedly different in the Pros - things that work in College don't work so well in the NFL. I think that's mostly because of the speed of the game.

After re-reading this.. I'd think that if we do get him, it'll take a few years to rub the college rookie nonsense out of him - so, keeping KGB would be a must.

 

[porky88]

Mario Williams would be a great pick and if he's on the board SHOULD be the pick and I think he will.

Green Bay is said to only want a 4th rounder for KGB so if we get Williams we'll probably send him packing in June.

 

[NDPackerFan]

Trom, Montgomery wasn't really used until the later part of the season, and even then it was on a limited basis. The very few snaps he got, I agree with you, he showed promise.

And Kenny Peterson, as far as I remember, was used as DT. I could be wrong, but that is where I remember seeing him play. Regardless, how good could they have subbed if KGB and Kamp played at least 85% of the downs? I still think KGB could offer a lot to the Packers (excluding his big salary). If he isn't used as an every down player, then I think he could really help our below average pass rush.

Montgomery was MONEY when he was in. Who cares if it was late in the season. Gado came into the picture late in the season too.

and Kenny is a DE. I thought he was a DT myself, till I was proven wrong.

Kenny Peterson played both DE and DT but I think mostly tackle...

 

[tromadz]

I know he played some DE, and I was impressed, cuz in 2004 if you said the name "Kenny Peterson" i woulda said "scrub" but he did real goodlike in 05.

 

[route25]

Trom, Montgomery wasn't really used until the later part of the season, and even then it was on a limited basis. The very few snaps he got, I agree with you, he showed promise.

And Kenny Peterson, as far as I remember, was used as DT. I could be wrong, but that is where I remember seeing him play. Regardless, how good could they have subbed if KGB and Kamp played at least 85% of the downs? I still think KGB could offer a lot to the Packers (excluding his big salary). If he isn't used as an every down player, then I think he could really help our below average pass rush.

And the concept of trading away KGB is absurd, IMO. We would take a large cap hit, and I think that would be stupid. Yes we can afford to take the hit, but the fact is that I'd rather have a few extra million to be able to make some moves or increase offers to FA's, rather than having it count as dead money on the cap. If TT really wanted to cut ties with KGB because of his price tag or some other reason, I would think he would wait until an option or bonus payment is due, and decide not to pay that to KGB. But I'm not sure there are bonus payments or option payments in the later years of KGB's contract.

If TT gets rid of KGB, the cap hit would be 6.3 million. If TT keeps him, the cap number will be 5.4 million. So it's not as big a difference as you might think. Plus, if TT keeps KGB, there will still be 4.7 million of his signing bonus yet to be prorated. If we don't need KGB, it would make sense to get rid of him this year. If you put Montgomery in the starting lineup, he could probably match KGB's sack total of 8, and would probably be more stout against the run (which isn't saying much).

Of course, all this is based on TT getting Mario. If we don't get him, then I agree we need to keep KGB for another year.

 

[gopackgo4]

Yeh I am all for trading KGB but what is he worth like a 2nd rounder maybe