1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Announcement is LIVE: Read the Forum Post

Here are 2 questions

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by profile_removed, Apr 28, 2013.

  1. profile_removed

    profile_removed Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    608
    Ratings:
    +20
    Since it's generally accepted by those on the board that Ted can do no wrong, and we had a great draft, I thought I'd ask two questions sort of as a devil's advocate type thing, and give thoughts on what I would've done either in the draft OR with UFA deals to upgrade the team.

    1.) Who is our backup Center in case EDS doesn't pan out or gets hurt?

    2.) Who is our Donald Driver across the middle posession type receiver?

    Solutions:

    And before I'm told yet again 'my love for players is a bit to Notre Dame centric', I'll admit that they're the only team that I like that I get to watch weekly. Other teams I get to see sporadically.

    EDS' Back up: IF I were drafting I would've spent a 3 or 4 and picked up Notre Dame Center Braxston Cave. Started alot in his career, and this past year when they went to the BCS title game he did it primarily with a Redshirt Freshman QB, so you know the Center had to help out a lot on the line calls, as well as what the Center saw the defense in. To me he could fill in for EDS early, and take over the job due to either injury or ineffectiveness toward the end of his rookie season. Where we stand now, I don't even know who the back-up is.

    Posession/Across the middle receiver: Another Notre Dame player. I would've drafted Robby Toma. He's not afraid to go across the middle. He's a guy that alot of defenses didn't account for, and because of that made alot of key catches for ND over the last 2-3 years. To me looking at him, the only differences between he and driver is that Robby is 15 years younger, and he's a Hawaiian white guy. Otherwise to me, they're the exact same receiver.

    I'd be interested to hear what the actual answers are to these questions from anyone who may have them. This is something that has bothered me since our last selection yesterday.
     
  2. PackFanNChiTown

    PackFanNChiTown Bear Fan's Bane

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Messages:
    731
    Ratings:
    +364
    Pack lacks depth on the interior line. Greg Van Roten (2012 undrafted rookie) was the only backup who saw any time on the active roster last season. Since we didn't draft a center it looks like one of the rookies will likely get trained to be the backup. (yikes).

    Cobb has been our across the middle receiver and did a great job with it. We'll see how they handle things this season.

    Oh, and I don't mind the ND slant, I grew up in South Bend. ;P
     
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Messages:
    16,686
    Ratings:
    +2,977
    Using the 3 or 4 that you would have...Then would you have missed on Bakhtiari or Treeter...

    Where would you have picked up the depth for the line issues?

    There are 3 centers listed on the Packers players list (I didnt find a depth chart) One was signed in Jan this year to the practice squad..

    Right now I think a majority are okay with what they have at center now...Clearly the Packers are okay with that...Then we have cuts coming..They still have about 3 months to figure it out

    Cobb can go over the middle as Packfan stated
     
  4. texaspackerbacker

    texaspackerbacker Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2004
    Messages:
    347
    Ratings:
    +58
    1. The Packers way is to cross-train O Linemen as Centers. Tretter seems to be a good candidate for that. Lewis would be an insurance policy.

    2. The Packers played without Donald Driver, for all practical purposes, all last year. I expect more diversified use this year for Nelson and Jones - with no Jennings, and a lot of Cobb in the slot. Both Johnson and Dorsey are big and fast. Hopefully one or the other or both will be a gutsy over the middle receiver, but who knows.
     
  5. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2012
    Messages:
    5,401
    Ratings:
    +2,477
    If you watch MM's post draft-press conference at packers.com you'll see him make the unqualified comment, "Lang can play center." This is a little surprising since as best I can tell he's never played the position. But coach says so, so this opens up all kinds of possibilities on the O-Line. Beyond Sitton and Bulaga, and Lang at either LG or C, I see the other 4 roster spots up for grabs. There's always a lot of yakety yak about competition...but this O-Line competition ought to be intense, particularly if Sherrod washes out.

    As for the Driver over-the-middle thing, the question is a couple years too late. Driver has not been an impact player since 2009. The better question is who is the guy who will take Jennings' slot snaps. That would be Cobb, the guy who made Jennings re-signing untenable and mostly painless.

    Nelson and Jones are big guys and they do run slants from time to time. Finley runs out of the slot quite a bit, sometimes open and ignored in short crosses. We have several TBs now who can get out and catch it. I think we have the short zones covered pretty well.
     
  6. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    1. Tretter, Lewis, or GVR. Lane Taylor has a shot too.
    2. Cobb, Ross, or Dorsey. Because what made Driver great was speed.
     
  7. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,023
    Ratings:
    +3,106
    :rolleyes: Bovine Scatology
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,164
    Ratings:
    +4,097
    We are in a pretty good position on offense when we are discussing our back up center.

    Saturday was terrible last season, I'm sure if worse came to worse we could insert an older FA.
     
  9. JBlood

    JBlood Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2004
    Messages:
    2,627
    Ratings:
    +1,018
    According to the Packers' web site Garth Gerhart is no. 2 center; Van Roten no. 3. Patrick Lewis, C from Texas A&M has been signed as undrafted FA. Couple others could be moved to C if necessary. We'll see what Campen can do with them.
     
  10. toolkien

    toolkien Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 9, 2011
    Messages:
    97
    Ratings:
    +66
    I haven't seen anybody say TT does no wrong, it's simply those spoiled brats who have to run him down because the Packers haven't been transformed into the 49ers of the 80's like they want (and ignoring the fact that no other teams have been either for a few decades). They hold the team and TT to some unrealistic standard, and all that is simply stated is that TT is one of the best GM's going. He has run the football operations since 2005, picking up the pieces left by Sherman, and there is only one team I can see anyone preferring to have been a fan of recently- say the last 3-4 years - the Ravens. They have had more "gross weight" playoff success than the Packers. That's it. And yet, since the Packers didn't win 3 trophies in 4 years, TT is mediocre and riddled with failures. 2nd in wins the last 4 years, 2nd in wins against playoff caliber teams, and 2nd in playoff value in this modern NFL is pretty darn good. Borderline very good to great GM. But, again, so many spoiled fans (or those still holding a grudge of You Know Who) take their shots. And some of us defend him. But he's not a god. I like his modular approach to talent and sticking to the "metrics" of age/potency, but he (and his staff) do find some awfully brittle talent. There seems to be a hole in the scouting philosophy. if it's not latent physicality, then it has to be technique of his coaches. One way or another, the Packers have had way too many injuries that goes beyond luck.
     
  11. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2011
    Messages:
    2,590
    Ratings:
    +1,464
    Agreed. TT is no god but he is pretty durn good. What I see play out is that folks say that he sucks because he didn't get this guy or that. When those of us (myself included) defend his moves it seems to be construed as the guy can do no wrong. However, I could pull out his draft history and find a litany of mistakes and misses, but despite all that he's still pretty good.

    Despite what the depth charts say, I think that Lang is the backup center. We know how he plays, better than we know a rookie or UDFA. He's got chemistry with other guys on the line, and it would be easier for a backup to step in at guard versus center. Besides, Campen is a former center so I'm pretty sure he's got a few guys coached up on that. How often did we ever see EDS play center before he became the starter late last season? Never that I can remember. These guys get reps in practice in rotation. As someone else said, in a pinch they can call an old set of legs.

    The WR question has been covered quite well.

    Could both of these situations be better? Absolutely. Does any team have all of its holes plugged? Nope. Fans of the defending champs are posting about all kinds of problems. I have no doubt that there are a bunch of negative fans on the 49ers forum complaining about the moves that they did and didn't make. It's inevitable when you've got 100,000 arm-chair GMs for every team!
     
  12. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,561
    Ratings:
    +1,851
    The issue becomes silly for me when all someone can complain about is who our back up center is and which WR can go over the middle? Really?

    In all seriousness, follow another team for a week or two. Follow the Lions. They have holes in their secondary, their OL is a big ?; they don't have a LB on their roster who could be a backup in GB. They are not alone in the NFL. Most team have big issues with important starting positions. And Packer fans pick TT apart because of no back up center? Its like the little rich kid in the neighborhood complaining that his 54" plasma high-def doesn't have picture-in-picture for his Blue ray and his GameCube XMT and he can't play video games while watching a movie in a PIP.


    I don't agree with everything that TT does. Sometimes I even prove to be right. But 99% of the time, TT was right. The difference is, say with our 2nd round pick this year.

    I posted: "I would have gone with ILB Brown. I think he would have brought more athleticism and attitude to our defense. His ability to cover the middle would have been a tremendous boost to our pass coverage." That is what I posted.

    Others posted this: "What is TT thinking? Is he crazy? Why would he take a 5th round talent injured RB when he could have had Jesse Williams? Now our defense is going to suck all because he can't admit he was wrong and Raji is a lazy *** bastard."
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    4,023
    Ratings:
    +3,106
    I agree with your post AmishMafia and since I'm not a draftnic, I appreciate it when fans not only criticize Thompson's pick, but post who they would have taken instead. At least those fans have some 'skin in the game'. Of course it would also be nice if their criticisms of Thomson were sane.

    But the reason I responded to your post is the following paints such a great picture:
    :D
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  14. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,561
    Ratings:
    +1,851
    If we didn't express opinions, what would be the point of being here. It just bugs me when it is so condescending and bitterness directed at TT.

    Think about it. TT has a 2 dozen scouts who have dedicated their lives (and many of them played) football. He has doctors, he has inteviewed a players HS coach, College coach, position coaches, opponents coaches, friends, teammates, trainers . . . . He has watched 4 hours of cut-ups specifically for one player - he has seen a dozen times every play in college the kid has been on the field. Yet, someone on their home computer, watching 3 5-minute clips on you-tube; reading a few websites; and talking with other clue-less draftnics on-line: and suddenly he thinks he can make a better decision than TT? And if my criticism of that attitude comes across as "TT can do no wrong'' - well, for me in particular, it would mean they haven't read many of my posts.

    If TT had spent a 2nd round pick on a backup center, as the OP apparently may have endorsed, he would still be complaining because we need more help at RB or a backup long snapper and a TE who can do a 25 yard curl route while juggling water bottles on a unicycle.

    (I know we probably more or less agree on this - I'm just venting in general and not directing at you.)
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Einstein McFly

    Einstein McFly Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Messages:
    381
    Ratings:
    +235
    I agree. I just said this in another thread, but there are some guys on here who just NEED to complain and whine about something. I'm not sure what they get out of it, but I suspect when what they're pretending is a huge issue doesn't materialize, they conveniently forget how hung up they were about it and, failing to learn from their issue, find something else to complain about.

    Oh, and in terms of the questions:
    1) We won't know until the fourth pre-season game. Bleacher report has a prediction of what the 53 will look like right now and it's basically last year's roster with a few draft picks thrown in. That's never how it works out. TT always takes some UFAs on the final roster and who knows who'll make it to the practice squad. Right now I'd give GVR the best chance to be the backup center just because they kept him last year and then protected him from being raided by another team, plus he's a really smart guy and has had an extra year of strength training and work on the offense. Next year, if you believe what the draft guys say (and you probably shouldn't) Tretter is a much more athletic version of GVR, so he may be the backup or the starter. But yeah, we won't know until camp is over.
    2) We won't have to worry about this. Really. We'll have someone fill this role just fine. We don't have some horrible QB who will hang guys out to dry over the middle, we have a very accurate QB with great touch. Really, this won't be an issue at all. Stop looking for thing to worry about. Really.
     
  16. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2009
    Messages:
    1,525
    Ratings:
    +875
    I think we need a TE who can do a 25 yard curl route while juggling water bottles on a unicycle.

    Fricking Finley. What a bum.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • Funny Funny x 1
  17. profile_removed

    profile_removed Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    608
    Ratings:
    +20
    I actually see Cobb becoming our 2 and not our 3.
     
  18. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,758
    Ratings:
    +1,030
    Cobb will be relegated to the slot, only slight chance he sees any time on the outside unless Nelson or Jones goes down.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Ratings:
    +1,379
    Really center is what we're picking on?:rolleyes: Jones and/or Nelson will pick up the slack over the middle.

    TT has made mistakes btw. He isn't bulletproof. We shouldn't get jerked out of shape over the slightest bit of criticism of him. My own rant. :)
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  20. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Ratings:
    +1,379
    I undid the rating. Sorry.
     
  21. profile_removed

    profile_removed Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    608
    Ratings:
    +20
    I see I'm being mocked again, by those who don't understand the concept of an injury. YES I'm concerned about our depth at Center for not only injury issues, but until I see EDS prove that he's the best man for the job, I won't believe it.
     
  22. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,561
    Ratings:
    +1,851
    How do you define #1, 2, 3? Cobb was our most productive WR last year with more receptions, targets, as well as yards. Jordy had more TDs. We have the X, Y, and Z receiver by Packer terminology. I think the #1 is the QBs first 'go-to-guy' and I think Cobb was nearly that last season. I think this season, he will definitely be 'the guy'.
     
  23. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,164
    Ratings:
    +4,097
    Yet the lions still drafted Titus young
     
  24. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Messages:
    2,561
    Ratings:
    +1,851
    huh?

    they also drafted Calvin Johnson. What's your point?

    The Vikings drafted Adrien Peterson who had significant injury history/concerns. Titus Young is a very talented and athletic receiver. Put even the maturity of a 17 year old (instead of 12) and you have a top 15 draft pick. Every pick a GM makes there is risk that must be balanced with reward. Young was not a top 15 pick because of concerns of his maturity. He went where he did as a high risk but high reward pick. If he would have buckled down and grew up, the lions would have had an impressive talent at a cheap price.

    You are fooling yourself if you think a GM can be 100% accurate on their picks. Justin Harrel without the injury is a top 5 pick. TT took a shot in a draft with limited talent options at their pick. The pick is widely panned by most fans as a mistake. In hindsight, yes, it was. At the time it was a risky pick with HUGE upside. At the time, it was a great pick. Maybe TT miscalculated the risk, I don't know. The fact that the college issue, torn biceps, was unrelated to his pro injury makes me think it was bad luck and nit a miscallculation. It was unfortunate he tweeted his back lifting weights, it caused pain and decreased his mobility. We will never know what he could have become.
     
  25. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    16,164
    Ratings:
    +4,097
    Wow what an unnecessary rant.

    I assumed it was clearly said in jest of the lions.

    Also, trotting out a counter argument that they have had success with a draft pick before is kind of silly. Hasn't every team struck gold in the draft? Lol.

    The point was (clear) that teams do have access to all this info about a player and yet the lions still draft someone who apparently spent time on a mental institution. Only the lions would blow a 2nd round pick on a guy like that.

    Seems like you are trying to argue no draft pick is a bad draft pick. Which isn't the case, no matter how you try n argue it.
     

Share This Page