Disturbing

Zero2Cool

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I'm just reading away this article at JSOnline and what do I come accross.

---"Roland said aside from offensive coordinator Tom Rossley and former special teams consultant Frank Novak, Sherman rarely listened to anyone on staff"---

Could he have picked TWO WORSE people to listen to?


Here is the article for yourself.

http://www.jsonline.com/packer/news/mar05/309759.asp

Sherman takes a few hits
Former Packers assistants fire shots at old head coach
By ROB REISCHEL
Special to Packer Plus
Posted: March 16, 2005

Green Bay - When it came to travel choices, Mike Sherman chose the high road. Selecting a different alternative would have been easy, though.

At the NFL Combine in Indianapolis last month, some of Sherman's former assistant coaches ripped their ex-boss for his lack of communication skills and for not listening to the other coaches on his staff.

Sherman refused to partake in the verbal warfare, though.

"I'm just not going to get involved in mud-slinging like that," Sherman said from his office last week. "I just don't see the point in it."

Two weeks earlier, though, several of Sherman's assistants made a similar point: that their input wasn't taken seriously and their ideas were often ignored.

"The head coach thought he was the only one with any brains," said Johnny Roland, who spent the 2004 season coaching Green Bay's running backs before taking the same position in New Orleans this off-season. "There was a lot of collective knowledge in the people that have left. And that knowledge wasn't listened to."

Jeff Jagodzinski coached the tight ends in Green Bay from 1999-2003 before Sherman fired him. Jagodzinski landed on his feet just fine, coaching Atlanta's tight ends a year ago, then being promoted to the Falcons' offensive line coach this off-season.

Jagodzinski said the difference in coaching under Jim Mora Jr. and Sherman is night and day.

"Coaching's fun again. And at the end, it wasn't in Green Bay," said Jagodzinski, a Wisconsin native who attended UW-Whitewater. "In Atlanta, your opinion matters. And the thing is nobody's afraid to make a suggestion. In Green Bay, a lot of guys bite their tongues on a lot of things.

"Right now, everybody's involved in the decision process and your opinion matters. And if you're in an organization, you want to feel that you're a part of it. And when you don't have any decision-making responsibilities or they don't take your suggestions or whatever, that's frustrating."

Kurt Schottenheimer, who coached Green Bay's secondary in 2004, was fired after the season and landed as St. Louis' defensive backs coach. Schottenheimer was asked if his, and other coaches on the staff, had their suggestions listened to.

After an 11-second pause, Schottenheimer said, "No comment."

Sherman seemed stung by the criticism, but refused to fire back

"I think I go out of my way to communicate with the staff," Sherman said. "I'm sorry Jeff feels that way. I wish him well and hope he has great success.

"Johnny was only here a year and he was just learning the offense. So he wasn't really here that long, less than a year actually."

Packers linebackers coach Mark Duffner said the criticism of Sherman's communication skills was completely inaccurate.

"I don't see that in any way, shape or form," Packers linebackers coach Mark Duffner said. "I just know I very much enjoy working with him and I think he's a great communicator. I don't see anything like that."

Those no longer working with Sherman tell a different tale, though.

Roland said aside from offensive coordinator Tom Rossley and former special teams consultant Frank Novak, Sherman rarely listened to anyone on staff.

"There were a lot of guys that have been around a long time," said Roland, who has 26 years of NFL experience. "You think they should have a little bit of input into how this game should be played and things you should take advantage of. But that wasn't how it worked up there."

The result? High turnover among assistant coaches.

While Sherman cleaned house on the defensive side of the ball, bringing back only Duffner from last year's defensive assistants, there were some surprising losses on offense. Roland made a lateral move to New Orleans and former Packers wide receivers coach Ray Sherman took the same job in Tennessee.

"Why do you think those guys left?" Jagodzinski said. "It wasn't to go to a better team. It's because in Green Bay, your ideas don't get listened to."

Roland concurred.

"I think what Jags said is definitely fair," Roland said. "And it's evidenced by the number of coaches that have exited over the last couple of years."

Ray Sherman was hoping to land a job this off-season in the state of Florida. His family had been living in Bradenton, Fla., since Aug. 2003, three months after the family's oldest son, Ray Sherman II died of a self-inflicted gun shot wound that a judge later ruled was accidental.

When that didn't happen, many expected Ray Sherman might return. Instead, he accepted the same position in Tennessee that he had in Green Bay - one where the wide receivers he'll inherit don't match the group he had in Green Bay, especially now that the Titans cut leading receiver Derrick Mason.

"My family would have come to Green Bay this season," said Ray Sherman, choosing his words carefully. "There was just too much other stuff."

What that stuff was, Ray Sherman wouldn't expound on. But other former assistants of Mike Sherman did.

Roland, for example, was asked what he'd tell a friend of his who was offered a job under Mike Sherman. His response?

"How bad do you need a job?"
 

IPBprez

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The article is missing a couple of "have a take - don't suck" items in there...

1) What is Ed Donatell's opinion? Anyone want to take a gander?

2) Out of those two, or three Coaches.. Where are the others' comments?

To be clear - and I will follow this along, like you're doing, Slick.......

Sherman learned to read the error of his ways last year during Rossley's health issue and himself being the one to call plays out there, not Rossley. But, then - we also all knew - that Brett Favre "thrived" on having the Coach and the QB work together 'face-to-face' along the sidelines... and Rossley NEVER had to hutzpa to ever show his face down on the edge of the field during a game.. NEVER! I outright call that "gutless".... I also think that when push comes to shove? Brett would prefer to be somewhere else... but let's remember one thing - this is IMHO... and from what I've read since the end of the season last year.. Rossley and Favre have been having ongoing conversations about how things could or should be working out there... I have no way of confirming my opinion... let's call it a gut feeling and leave it at that....! But I gotta tell ya - it sure feels that way "after" Rossley called that STUPID pass play in the Eagles playoff game two seasons ago! I'll always say that 2003 was our season to return to the SB... and Rossley blew it for the whole team! What's more? Brett also knows it! Do you remember him throwin' his hands up in the air and just walkin' off the field... sort of laughin'? I do!

We'll see where this line of investigation goes -- the longer TT waits to extend the contract? The more this will center itself at the head of any Mike Sherman conversation!
 

IPBprez

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Posted Mar. 14, 2005
Chris Havel (again)
You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Sharper delivers one final weak shot

Darren Sharper shouldn
 

Zero2Cool

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I agree, I don't think Brett likes/respects Rossley at all. I'd like to see him call plays for a year but as he has said already 'thats not my job' Don't know if he was saying that to push blame on the poor playing calling or to say hey let me call the plays in some strange way.
 

PackerTraxx

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The problem with the shots at Sherman is that they keep coming, and they're consistent with what they're saying. This indicates that the people making them are accurate and were very frustrated and/or angry. This does not bode well as there are probably more players and coaches that still feel the same way.
 

IPBprez

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I'm waiting for someone other than the selected few to step forward and either kill or confirm this flying albatross.... Wouldn't you just love to hear the conversations going on between Bates & Thompson at the lunch table.... right about ...now!
 

Zero2Cool

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taking shots at a ex co worker is not a huge issue... the issue would be if his current co workers do not respect him

it happens everyday ppl switch places of employment and take immature shots at their previous co workders/boss

lets not make a mountain out of a ant hill here
 

IPBprez

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Agreed - Slick - but the reality factor is most likely starting to appear like early sunburn.... Ask youself - how many other Teams are you hearing this type of conversation from? And... are they getting it put in print all over the web? It's one thing for Cheeseheads to see a remote article, or a blurb in some other article which was more about some other main issue... but this is distinctly specific... and not exactly going away for the most part.... I'm not sure who I would take as the final word here... there may not be one! Certainly Brett is a TEAM PLAYER - You probably will never hear him outright state his lack of affection for Rossley... as one example.... And listening to TT say anything at this point would be ludicrous on any level - he just got there.... I guess I would take Donatell's word... but why would he want to dredge up dirty laundry - he made his point during the playoffs last year! I just wish they'd just clarify the matter - which may help put it to rest.

That's all I care about - let's settle down and get to business of fixing this Defense and bring the Lombardi back home!
 

Zero2Cool

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I'm not saying he is a ducky swell person to work with. I'm saying fact of the matter is not many ppl get along with their 'high ups' at their employment, especially when they feel they've been overlooked or have not had their suggestions heard to their liking.

It just seems to me were over reacting on this and its way more common than we all think. But since its about our beloved Green and Gold we are mad tripping yo! :)
 

IPBprez

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Well - one thing's for sure - we DID see evidence to some extent with the way Rossley demonstrated not wanting to interact with the QB on a direct level - which Sherm Lewis certainly made a point to do. And, by that I mean - "during" the game, not just after..... It's one thing to sit around off-season and talk about things when the games not on the line and the heat of the battle isn't in your blood.. or to stop for a few minutes in the hallway, in the middle of the week and give a nod - I've seen articles that have promoted Rossley discussing issues with Brett - I think everyone has... but when he (Brett) threw his hands up in the air like that during that Eagles game -- I was convinced as to what was and really had been.... going down all along, --- with respect as to how the Offense was being run. It's not good, in my mind, that this issue may actually have deeper roots than we all thought were there!

I REALLY HOPE I'M WRONG ABOUT THIS
- BUT CURRENTLY, IT DOESN'T LOOK SO GOOD THAT I COULD BE WRONG!
I truly hope I'm wrong........
 

jdlax

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I don't like to recycle my own posts so to speak, but I don't know why in the world they don't give Favre "Peyton like" control of the offence. He's been through, and seen it all. I would be shocked if he wasn't able to pull it off successfully.
 

arrowgargantuan

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JD said:
I don't like to recycle my own posts so to speak, but I don't know why in the world they don't give Favre "Peyton like" control of the offence. He's been through, and seen it all. I would be shocked if he wasn't able to pull it off successfully.


because favre's a competetive passer, he'd run the ball like twice a game! :lol: :lol:
 

jdlax

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Ahaha that would be hilarious to hear after he's retired that one way opposing defences knew what was coming was to read his face: lit up, big grin=pass play. Somber, almost bored face=run.:D
 

IPBprez

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AG's pretty much nailin' here... And, I don't see Sherman being all that much a risk taker, either! He'd "marty Schottenheimer him to death - Brett'd be out there trying to pull the plug on that earphone in the helmet -- Can ya see it - in the huddle... "Hey guys, help me out here... circle around keep the cameras off me for minute...eh?" (And then him forgettin so-and-so has a mic on for the game.. damned righteous scripting, I say..... lol

Then again.........

Brett is every bit the QB that Elway showed himself to be near the end of his career... and then some - John was never a three time MVP...ever!
Given some maturity Brett has these days - it could most likely work in the Team's favor - especially with timeclock manuevering.. keeping the defense off balance and not so rested as they get at times while Sherman & Co decide if they should call a pass play since the first to run attempts failed...DOH!
 

Zero2Cool

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arrowgargantuan said:
JD said:
I don't like to recycle my own posts so to speak, but I don't know why in the world they don't give Favre "Peyton like" control of the offence. He's been through, and seen it all. I would be shocked if he wasn't able to pull it off successfully.


because favre's a competetive passer, he'd run the ball like twice a game! :lol: :lol:


if it wins games


im down for it
 

arrowgargantuan

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SlickVision said:
arrowgargantuan said:
JD said:
I don't like to recycle my own posts so to speak, but I don't know why in the world they don't give Favre "Peyton like" control of the offence. He's been through, and seen it all. I would be shocked if he wasn't able to pull it off successfully.


because favre's a competetive passer, he'd run the ball like twice a game! :lol: :lol:


if it wins games


im down for it


well, it did work in 2002 for Oakland..but defenses have since adapted to that type of a game plan.
 

sixone220

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SlickVision said:
arrowgargantuan said:
JD said:
I don't like to recycle my own posts so to speak, but I don't know why in the world they don't give Favre "Peyton like" control of the offence. He's been through, and seen it all. I would be shocked if he wasn't able to pull it off successfully.


because favre's a competetive passer, he'd run the ball like twice a game! :lol: :lol:


if it wins games


im down for it


i don't recall edge getting 30 carries a game.
 

Zero2Cool

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sixone220 said:
i don't recall edge getting 30 carries a game.

Twice just last year.

VS. NEW ENGLAND
30 att
142 yds
4.7 per carry
16 long
0 td


VS. OAKLAND
32 att
136 yds
4.3 per carry
17 long
1 td


He has averaged over his career just under 23 carries a game.
 

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