Defensive line fatigue debate

[Bertram]

Remember the debate we had here whether our D-line scheme from Bates took a huge toll on the d-line and was causing all the injuries, here's Greg Bedard's take, he has experience with the scheme from Miami:

Q: Sohn of Dover, Delaware - Greg, You really hit the nail on the head regarding how the D-Line would wear down through the course of a season in the Bates/Saunders system. Why is this and what can be done next year to prevent it from happening again? Do you think that MM and company agree that there is a problem?

A: Greg Bedard - When you ask those four guys up front to do all the heavy lifting - be the sole pass rushers and take up multiple blockers in the middle - that takes a huge, huge toll over the course of a season. That being said, I thought the Packers were in much better shape than the Dolphins because the Packers were young there and had a very good rotation. But once the injuries happened, it wiped all that out. Unfortunately, no, I don't think MM agrees with that. I was shocked when we talked to him yesterday that he said he wasn't even considering changing the staff. I thought he'd at least look at that. Maybe bring in somebody, at least as an assistant DC, that is creative with blitz packages.

 

[millertime]

We need a young speed rusher to give Kampman a rest once and a while.

 

[longtimefan]

we were missing 2 of those guys, were we not at the end?

 

[Zombieslayer]

We need a young speed rusher to give Kampman a rest once and a while.

Agreed. Wasn't he taking 94% of snaps?
Kampy's one of my fave players, but I don't want to see him wear down and retire early. Or maybe throw KGB on either side, relieving both Kampy and Jenkins? Just an idea.

 

[spardo62]

If they insist on running this package, we need to maintain quality and depth on DL(meaning keeping more DL than typical at expense of another position). They also need to figure out a way to mix in a few creative blitz packages to take the heat off of the DL from time to time.

 

[Zombieslayer]

If they insist on running this package, we need to maintain quality and depth on DL(meaning keeping more DL than typical at expense of another position). They also need to figure out a way to mix in a few creative blitz packages to take the heat off of the DL from time to time.

See, that's what I think. I don't like the non-blitzing. Reality is every team is different. What works against one team may not necessarily work against the next team.

If you're not putting pressure on the QB with your front four, you gotta blitz. You have to pressure the QB. Any QB will look good if he has time, and the top 10 or so QBs will kill you if you give them time.

I really don't see a huge difference between rushing four and rushing five. It just means one person has to cover more area. Sure QBs can exploit it, but not if they're on their butts.

 

[Pack93z]

Wait.. two years ago.. we get killed with blitz packages and exotic defenses.. people were screaming for change.. we changed. Now we are playing a very static solid defense and people are talking about change.

I say, stay in this defensive package we have with maybe a variance of coverage changes or formation changes to disguise it a little. With the Man press.. we can't hide what we are going to do.. they see the corners up and know what is comming. But does that mean we scrap it out completely when we had a successful season?

We finally late in the season got some consistent play out of the safeties.. I promise you that if that continues next season.. where the coaches are confident that the safeties will read the play and react accordingly, they will do more things up front to confuse the offense. But I think they took an conservative approach to make sure we didn't get bleed quickly with the big plays..

Personnel wise, all defenses wear down and suffer injuries.. maybe we have a little more on the interior because of the gap play, but probably not much more than the normal team. But we play with undersized speed Backers more so than a run stuffer in the middle.. Barnett isn't a thumper he is a sideline to sideline slasher.. we have to play controlled in the middle.

On blitzing.. there are very few DC that make it a long career when they rely on the blitz.. especially with a young team. Look around for every Jim Johnson, there is a ton of season or two successes then the offenses pick up the scheme and torch the D. Great defenses don't rely on the blitz to make them go, they sprinkle it in during certain games to change it up and confuse.

IMO.. of course.. give Sanders another year to take this defense to another level.. if he plays it vanilla again the whole season, then maybe, but right now the players are just getting comfortable in this system.. evidence.. see Bigby's play late in the season.. and Poppinga and Williams.

 

[Zombieslayer]

Wait.. two years ago.. we get killed with blitz packages and exotic defenses.. people were screaming for change.. we changed. Now we are playing a very static solid defense and people are talking about change.

I say, stay in this defensive package we have with maybe a variance of coverage changes or formation changes to disguise it a little. With the Man press.. we can't hide what we are going to do.. they see the corners up and know what is comming. But does that mean we scrap it out completely when we had a successful season?

We finally late in the season got some consistent play out of the safeties.. I promise you that if that continues next season.. where the coaches are confident that the safeties will read the play and react accordingly, they will do more things up front to confuse the offense. But I think they took an conservative approach to make sure we didn't get bleed quickly with the big plays..

Personnel wise, all defenses wear down and suffer injuries.. maybe we have a little more on the interior because of the gap play, but probably not much more than the normal team. But we play with undersized speed Backers more so than a run stuffer in the middle.. Barnett isn't a thumper he is a sideline to sideline slasher.. we have to play controlled in the middle.

On blitzing.. there are very few DC that make it a long career when they rely on the blitz.. especially with a young team. Look around for every Jim Johnson, there is a ton of season or two successes then the offenses pick up the scheme and torch the D. Great defenses don't rely on the blitz to make them go, they sprinkle it in during certain games to change it up and confuse.

IMO.. of course.. give Sanders another year to take this defense to another level.. if he plays it vanilla again the whole season, then maybe, but right now the players are just getting comfortable in this system.. evidence.. see Bigby's play late in the season.. and Poppinga and Williams.

Pack - I don't mean make the blitz our bread and butter. I just mean that when the front four aren't putting pressure on the QB, throw in a blitz.

 

[Pack93z]

Pack - I don't mean make the blitz our bread and butter. I just mean that when the front four aren't putting pressure on the QB, throw in a blitz.

Zombie- sorry if that appeared to be in rebuttal of your post, but the couple of Packer boards and the people in sitting an talking a bit, all are saying we should have dialed up the blitzes and become more agressive on defense. I my point, we are very aggressive in our style of play, name another team that mans up and plays ball on the outside. Most are scared to death to play the way we do, because more often than not you will get beat.

Plax outmatched our best face up defender cleanly... if you want to get on Sanders for anything it was that he didn't want to change an relax the coverage. Zone play or double him.. and yes it ****** me off that we didn't adjust out of it, but we hadn't all year either. It ****** me off that we didn't have a veteran safety to call upon to play the over on Plax and let Harris gamble some on the under.. but we choose to play the youth and it took us very close.

These pains we feel now with be erased as these players take another step next year and really start to kick ***. Bigby will continue to grow and between Collins, Rouse and Culver we will have plenty of depth after one of them jumps out and takes the FS spot.

I truly think leave this unit alone and let them come back next year as a true *** kicking D.

 

[tromadz]

Wait.. two years ago.. we get killed with blitz packages and exotic defenses.. people were screaming for change.. we changed. Now we are playing a very static solid defense and people are talking about change.

That'll happen.

I think that if whatever is being implemented doesn't lead to an immediate superbowl win, it must be changed. It's the WIN NOW attitude that's going around. I like what we're doing, and what we're building on, and as always my opinion(and you guys too) doesn't matter. The coaches know what to do.

 

[PackFanWithTwins]

Pack - I don't mean make the blitz our bread and butter. I just mean that when the front four aren't putting pressure on the QB, throw in a blitz.

Zombie- sorry if that appeared to be in rebuttal of your post, but the couple of Packer boards and the people in sitting an talking a bit, all are saying we should have dialed up the blitzes and become more agressive on defense. I my point, we are very aggressive in our style of play, name another team that mans up and plays ball on the outside. Most are scared to death to play the way we do, because more often than not you will get beat.

Plax outmatched our best face up defender cleanly... if you want to get on Sanders for anything it was that he didn't want to change an relax the coverage. Zone play or double him.. and yes it ****** me off that we didn't adjust out of it, but we hadn't all year either. It ****** me off that we didn't have a veteran safety to call upon to play the over on Plax and let Harris gamble some on the under.. but we choose to play the youth and it took us very close.

These pains we feel now with be erased as these players take another step next year and really start to kick ***. Bigby will continue to grow and between Collins, Rouse and Culver we will have plenty of depth after one of them jumps out and takes the FS spot.

I truly think leave this unit alone and let them come back next year as a true *** kicking D.

I would agree that we need to blitz some more. Not every play but enough to keep the Oline guessing. The coaching staff has said over the year that they put a lot of pressure on our CB leaving them on the edges usually without much help. As we saw against the Gmen, if we do not get pressure they will be eaten up eventually. Burris is an example of a big WR that can get off the jam there are more like him out there.

I think it was a lot to expect even from Harris and Woodson. Even though Burris caught a ton of passes, with a few exceptions Harris was pretty much right on him. Eli just had to much time.

When was the last time you have seen a CB blitz? Just would like to things a little more aggressive.

 

[Zombieslayer]

Wait.. two years ago.. we get killed with blitz packages and exotic defenses.. people were screaming for change.. we changed. Now we are playing a very static solid defense and people are talking about change.

That'll happen.

I think that if whatever is being implemented doesn't lead to an immediate superbowl win, it must be changed. It's the WIN NOW attitude that's going around. I like what we're doing, and what we're building on, and as always my opinion(and you guys too) doesn't matter. The coaches know what to do.

I think we're talking about minor tweeks. We're so close now, that it will just take a few tweeks to keep us from winning the big one. A personnel change or 2? slight adjustments in strategy? Something along those lines.

We may be the 3rd best team in the NFL now. We had an excellent year and I'm proud of our Packers. It feels like '95. We were so close to winning the big one and we all feel it. Now, the next goal is to be #1.

 

[favre2driver]

I think we should blitz more but shouldn't rely on it.

 

[Danreb]

I think we should do what Jacksonville does and just throw the fattest people we have out there.

Jacksonville made great personnel decisions this season. They already have Marcus Stroud and John Henderson, so what did Del Rio do when one was out? He went out and signed Grady.

 

[tromadz]

Wait.. two years ago.. we get killed with blitz packages and exotic defenses.. people were screaming for change.. we changed. Now we are playing a very static solid defense and people are talking about change.

That'll happen.

I think that if whatever is being implemented doesn't lead to an immediate superbowl win, it must be changed. It's the WIN NOW attitude that's going around. I like what we're doing, and what we're building on, and as always my opinion(and you guys too) doesn't matter. The coaches know what to do.

I think we're talking about minor tweeks. We're so close now, that it will just take a few tweeks to keep us from winning the big one. A personnel change or 2? slight adjustments in strategy? Something along those lines.

We may be the 3rd best team in the NFL now. We had an excellent year and I'm proud of our Packers. It feels like '95. We were so close to winning the big one and we all feel it. Now, the next goal is to be #1.

Gotcha.

 

[DarkaneRules]

We just have to keep a good rotation going. I think the offseason should have a focus on continuing to improve the depth of the o-lines and d-lines. If we want Brett to feel less pressure and make better decisions when it matters, then we need a liiiiittle more strength in the trenches.

 

[tromadz]

We just have to keep a good rotation going.

And I have NO doubts we will. A healthy rotation seems very important to our coaches, which is good, because it is important.

I like our coaches.

 

[bozz_2006]

please please please please please re-sign Corey Williams!

 

[packedhouse01]

If they maintain this scheme then they have to sign Corey Williams. Good Coordinators adjust. When your line is hurt, you have to change things up. Sanders didn't do that.

 

[Zombieslayer]

please please please please please re-sign Corey Williams!

AGREEEEED!

You have a man who gets results. Re-sign him.

Darkane was saying about improving the trenches. Corey Williams is one important guy there. Get a little bit more depth in there. Maybe have someone who can take some snaps from Kampman. I love Kampman, but 94% of snaps is just plain too much.

A little bit more depth on the OL too and we should be good to win an SB. I really think we don't need RBs or WRs to win the SB next year. It will be the trenches that will take us over the top.

 

[bozz_2006]

I really think we don't need RBs or WRs to win the SB next year. It will be the trenches that will take us over the top.

There it is.