TJV
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Jason Wilde has a great story about Linsley at espnwisconsin.
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Corey Linsley – The kid is all right
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Oshkoshpackfan
YUT !!!
Arod has nothing but good things to say about the kid. He has earned his spot. Arod even says he is an expert writer...lol...the kid writes a well writen and in depth apology letter every time he makes mistakes in a game.
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TJV
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I wouldn’t characterize it as “panic”.
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Got to give the guy a lot of credit,he was thrown into the fire only starting 1 game in the preseason and has played better than any one would have expected,being from a big time College program helps ,he has not seemed overwhelmed,like you said perhaps GB has found a solid Center for years to come.
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HardRightEdge
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"Truly amazing" seems a bit of an overstatement. "Pleasant surprise" might be more in order.
Here's what I said on 8/25 when there was some "panic" in the air:
"Linsley will be fine. He's played a lot of major college center. The O-line may forgo some of that fancy pulling but I would not expect this substitution to be a factor. Rodgers is perfectly capable of directing traffic, and was doing some of that anyway."
What I did not mention in that earlier post is the fact Linsley would have a Pro Bowler on his left and a very solid guy on his right; football is a team game in the zone scheme interior OL more than anywhere else on the field.
It should be noted the transition was not entirely smooth. Rodgers read Linsley the riot act on camera in an early game for poor awareness in failing to get off a snap resulting in a delay of game. The first snap against the Jets resulted in a fumble on the exchange. As one would expect, those early season gaffs have been eliminated with experience.
It's hard to independently grade a guy against the league without watching every game, which is why many people like to rely on PFF. However, PFF has enough outlier grades (relative unknowns scoring high grades one year and disappearing the next and the next, etc.) as to take their opinion with a couple of grains of salt. Somewhere there's a PFF guy of unknown provenance sitting in his underwear in his home office grading plays using NFL Rewind coaches tape, which anybody can do with a spare $60. Didn't PFF grade Brad Jones a top 8 ILB after 2012?
So, would Linsley qualify as a top 4 C in the league based on an eye test measured against other top centers past and present? I don't think he's quite there yet...I'd like to see him jump out to the second level and spring a run from time to time. It seems to me the current scheme keeps him home with Sitton getting the lions share of second-level blocking duties.
That said, Linsley's a good player, and that earns a "pleasant surprise" ranking.
Here's what I said on 8/25 when there was some "panic" in the air:
"Linsley will be fine. He's played a lot of major college center. The O-line may forgo some of that fancy pulling but I would not expect this substitution to be a factor. Rodgers is perfectly capable of directing traffic, and was doing some of that anyway."
What I did not mention in that earlier post is the fact Linsley would have a Pro Bowler on his left and a very solid guy on his right; football is a team game in the zone scheme interior OL more than anywhere else on the field.
It should be noted the transition was not entirely smooth. Rodgers read Linsley the riot act on camera in an early game for poor awareness in failing to get off a snap resulting in a delay of game. The first snap against the Jets resulted in a fumble on the exchange. As one would expect, those early season gaffs have been eliminated with experience.
It's hard to independently grade a guy against the league without watching every game, which is why many people like to rely on PFF. However, PFF has enough outlier grades (relative unknowns scoring high grades one year and disappearing the next and the next, etc.) as to take their opinion with a couple of grains of salt. Somewhere there's a PFF guy of unknown provenance sitting in his underwear in his home office grading plays using NFL Rewind coaches tape, which anybody can do with a spare $60. Didn't PFF grade Brad Jones a top 8 ILB after 2012?
So, would Linsley qualify as a top 4 C in the league based on an eye test measured against other top centers past and present? I don't think he's quite there yet...I'd like to see him jump out to the second level and spring a run from time to time. It seems to me the current scheme keeps him home with Sitton getting the lions share of second-level blocking duties.
That said, Linsley's a good player, and that earns a "pleasant surprise" ranking.
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HardRightEdge
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Maybe it's just me, but the idea of "panic" in the context of NFL fandom seems unjustified and downright weird...unless there's some significant money on the line. "Concern" seems an appropriate reaction.I wouldn’t characterize it as “panic” but I, for one, was very concerned about starting the season at Seattle with an OC who hadn’t snapped the ball to Rodgers for more than a week and never “in battle”. Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you! (Pardon the double negative and.)
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TJV
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To each their own, but I’ll stick with “amazing”.
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Letting EDS go was no reason for panic,it's not like he was blue chip player,finally cracked the line up cause there wasn't anyone else at the time to put at center,now barring injury GB should be o.k. at that spot
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HardRightEdge
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You cannot compare Cs to OTs. The draft is indicative. Linsley was the 6th. C taken in the draft. The 6th. OT was the 35th. pick. That draft was not atypical. There's a reason...the level of skill and athleticism to achieve competency at OT is much higher than at C.
Comparing a C to a DE/DT like Worthy is suspect to begin, but if we must, then compare to the 6th. DE or DT being the 37th. pick in the last draft, that being a thin class to boot.
Linsley is a good player with more upside. I'd grade his season to date slightly lower than Scott Wells in his last couple of years with the Packers. He's certainly a step up from Saturday and EDS by a meaningful margin.
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El Guapo
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Linsley has been very solid. I just re-watched the Seattle game yesterday in the background while working (nice perk). A lot of the pre-game and in-game media hype was about Linsley's first start. He did have the errant shotgun snap that went past Rodgers but luckily GB had called a timeout at the last moment.
There was justified panic in the air about the Packers' center position. We struggled mightily when Jeff Saturday didn't pan out, and then we finally got a guy in EDS that solidified the spot and then we didn't want to pay his FA salary. We were flying blind into the position this year with Trettor. TT and MM can say that they saw something in practice, but like paper champions there are many practice warriors that never pan out in games. TT and MM gambled and won. To me, that is the nice surprise. Linsley rewarded their faith in a pair of (essentially) rookie centers to run a playoff-caliber team.
There was justified panic in the air about the Packers' center position. We struggled mightily when Jeff Saturday didn't pan out, and then we finally got a guy in EDS that solidified the spot and then we didn't want to pay his FA salary. We were flying blind into the position this year with Trettor. TT and MM can say that they saw something in practice, but like paper champions there are many practice warriors that never pan out in games. TT and MM gambled and won. To me, that is the nice surprise. Linsley rewarded their faith in a pair of (essentially) rookie centers to run a playoff-caliber team.
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TJV
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Worthy and Sherrod were just two recent Packers examples. There are a lot of examples in the league of rookie OL, including OGs and OCs, not only struggling in their first seasons but not making it in the league. Tretter was being heavily depended upon - why else did Rodgers not receive a single snap from Linsley until Tretter got injured? I have a higher opinion of Linsley's play so far this season than some. His ascension has been amazing to me.
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HardRightEdge
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Well, there's one respect in which I have more confidence in Linsley than you, perhaps. I do not expect any bona fide competition for the center position in next season's camp unless Tretter gets on the field for an extended period this season and demonstrates stud-like qualities. That's not likely.
It's curious you would quote Wilde stumping for a Pro Bowl and quoting PFF's rating of him as the #2 center in the NFC, two sources you evidently find reliable, then proceed to throw open his position to competition from a player who's never taken an NFL snap, has no experience at the position and has had serial serious injuries.
The job is Linsley's.
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The best thing I can say about Linsley is not one all year have a watched a game and shouted at Linsely (through the TV)...
"What are you doing you idiot"
Not even on the delay of game, that I just chalked up to **** happens.
"What are you doing you idiot"
Not even on the delay of game, that I just chalked up to **** happens.
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TJV
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Here’s what I posted in the OP, “I posted they’ll probably open the competition at OC during the next TC but if Linsley keeps this up, they may not. And Aaron may finally have the stability of an OC he likes and trusts for the rest of his career.” I previously posted they’ll probably open up competition. Here I posted pretty much the same thing you just did – ‘if Linsley keeps this up … Aaron may finally have … stability … at OC.’
I quoted Wilde quoting Rodgers stumping for Linsley – an important distinction. And I quoted PFF not because I agree with their findings but to show a disinterested third party (no matter what you think of them, they aren’t Packers fans) thinks very highly of Linsley so Rodgers wasn’t just being a “homer”.
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I wasn't in panic mode though I was concerned about this position more than any other on the team even before Tretter got hurt. Linsely has been a terrific surprise imo. Just like Bahktiari last year.
I guess I just don't agree with the popular sentiment here that our o-line is average at best. Our overall offensive success is not JUST because of Rodgers. It appears to me that he is holding the ball as long as he did in years past (especially the last month), and that doesn't happen if your o-line is shaky and untrustworthy. Our ypc in the running game is probably close to what it was last year. As a unit, I think they are doing quite well. Much better than the d-line imo.
I guess I just don't agree with the popular sentiment here that our o-line is average at best. Our overall offensive success is not JUST because of Rodgers. It appears to me that he is holding the ball as long as he did in years past (especially the last month), and that doesn't happen if your o-line is shaky and untrustworthy. Our ypc in the running game is probably close to what it was last year. As a unit, I think they are doing quite well. Much better than the d-line imo.
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I was concerned about the center position before the season (was absolutely convinced ILB would turn out to be our worst position) but pleasantly surprised by Linsley´s performance so far. As a whole the offensive line is pretty impressive in pass protection but they have to improve in run blocking. BTW our yards per carry has dropped from 4.7 in 2013 to 4.0 this season.
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HardRightEdge
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My general impression was Linsley's been better in pass pro than run blocking, so I was surprised to see PFF (after the Bears game) rate his run blocking +8.7 while they rate his pass blocking -1.3 despite the fact they dock Linsley for "only one QB hit and [he] has yet to give up a single sack".
Somebody will need to explain how 8.7 - 1.3 = 9.3 overall grade, but that's a question for the rater. Did they dock him for forcing a time out, a bad snap, something else?
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/11/15/packers-linsley-pro-bowl-worthy/
In an attempt to sort this out I looked at about the first 20 plays in each of the last 3 games to get some idea of (1) what exactly is Linsley doing and (2) why PFF might have a rating that seems to go counter the eye test (and the one hit, no sack record).
The pass pro rating is easier to explain...it's a matter of opportunity. Of the approximately 45 pass play snaps I looked at, on about 3/4 of them Linsley had help or was sliding, looking for work. Of the rest, there were only two snaps where he wasn't helping or getting help. On one of those he did his job stopping the guy cold.
The one remaining pass snap was a signature play, perhaps the one Rodgers had in mind with the Pro Bowl comment. It was the long screen completion to Lacy early in the New Orleans game. Linsley was 1-on-2 against two rushers coming clean up the middle. He chipped the guy on his left, bounced off, and then got enough of a chip on the guy to his right to allow Rodgers to flip the ball to Lacy. The margin for error in getting the ball away was maybe 1/10 of a second. I'd give him a +2 on that play; I don't know what PFF might have rated it.
To the matter of opportunity...while Linsley did everything you'd want him to do on those 45 pass assignments, the opportunity for +1 or +2 ratings were limited given the preponderance of giving-or-getting-help plays. This points a problem with these kinds of ratings. It's a team game, especially in the interior O-Line, and Linsley works very well in the pass blocking scheme.
As for the run blocking, it may surprise some when I say Linsley is probably the best run blocker in this line. In those 20 or so run snaps I reviewed closely, he got on his man, stayed on him, and moved him out off the line with some regularity. He's not dominating anybody (I counted one knockdown on a run), but he gets the job done and does not make mistakes. I misspoke earlier when I said he isn't asked to release to the second level. It was easy to miss, I suppose, because on the 1/4 or run plays where he did release the run was stopped behind him for little or no gain. He probably serves the run game better staying home and taking on DTs. I'm not sure this adds up to the best run blocking center in the NFC, but he is pretty darn good.
All in all, he's a very good, well rounded O-Lineman which syncs with the eye test, and a world ahead of Jeff Saturday in his closing season and 1/2 a world ahead of EDS. With the high snap/sack against Philly, the bad/late snaps total 3 for the season, higher than you'd expect from a Pro Bowl center.
When I think of a top 4 center in the league which is what gets you to the Pro Bowl, I think of somebody a bit more dominating. More one-on-one pass pro successes might tip the scale. If centers are not having good years, maybe he gets a nod.
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