Budenholzer fired

Sanguine camper

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While firing the HC was a neccesity, the house cleaning needs to much more thorough. I think the GM needs to go along with the old gray beards on the team. A new GM can see what they can get in trades for the old guys to build around Giannis, Allen, Portis. Not a lot of options to help build a roster since the draft picks are mostly gone and the trade stock is old. Bringing in just a new HC won't accomplish much since the tired old roster will be even older next season.
 
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AmishMafia

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While firing the HC was a neccesity, the house cleaning needs to much more thorough. I think the GM needs to go along with the old gray beards on the team. A new GM can see what they can get in trades for the old guys to build around Giannis, Allen, Portis. Not a lot of options to help build a roster since the draft picks are mostly gone and the trade stock is old. Bringing in just a new HC won't accomplish much since the tired old roster will be even older next season.
Not sure they have a roster issue. They won more games last season than anyone. Why don't they play as well in the playoffs? Seems to me this is what someone told me when we hired him, his track record as a coach was strong regular season followed by first round playoff loss.
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thequick12

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While firing the HC was a neccesity, the house cleaning needs to much more thorough. I think the GM needs to go along with the old gray beards on the team. A new GM can see what they can get in trades for the old guys to build around Giannis, Allen, Portis. Not a lot of options to help build a roster since the draft picks are mostly gone and the trade stock is old. Bringing in just a new HC won't accomplish much since the tired old roster will be even older next season.

Youd build around gianis and drue holiday...allen is garbage
 

Pokerbrat2000

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The Bucks and Packers have kind of been mirroring each other. A high profile superstar, decent enough players around him, but maybe not enough when it comes to the playoffs. Throw in some questionable coaching and there is no room for mistakes. I would blame the Packers Special Teams and DC's over the years, more than the HC, but the HC is the one that hires them, so it blows back on him too.

Would love to see them get another high powered player to add to Giannis, Lopez and Holiday, but money wise, they can't swing it and draft wise, they are empty. I actually really liked the roster this year, they did have the best record in the NBA and had they played better as a team, they beat a very under-rated Heat team. I think replacing Bud was about the only move the front office had to try and get back to a Championship game and probably the smart one.
 

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There's a lot of decent players on the Bucks roster. You don't throw them out because a coach misused them. You can trade Middleton, if the return is right. It would be some healthy draft picks that would help the Bucks make upgrades over the next few years, instead of being without picks, as they are now. It would probably be the responsibility of a new GM to make it happen.

Keep Giannis, Lopez, Holiday, Portis, Ingles, Connaughton, Beauchamp, Thanasis, Carter, and Wigginton. All have roles they can play on the team. Trade Middleton to a team that will give us potential lottery picks over the next three years. Then add players as needed, through free agency, that can offer what they need to insure depth at every position. The Middleton salary removed from the cap would give them a huge lift in getting a couple of solid FAs on board.
 

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Do you think Meddleton has that kind of trade value though?

I might exaggerate a hundred million gazillion times per second, but I feel like he's been injured more than he's played over the last two years.
 

Voyageur

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Do you think Meddleton has that kind of trade value though?

I might exaggerate a hundred million gazillion times per second, but I feel like he's been injured more than he's played over the last two years.
His value would be based on which team, or teams, are looking for a guy who has his talents, that believes that he can be the key to winning the whole shooting match, or just getting invited to the dance, and getting jilted. He does have All-Star skills.

It's going to be interesting seeing how it plays out. I do like Middleton as a player, but you're right, he has been bitten by the injury bug for a couple of years now.
 

lambeaulambo

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the nba is unwatchable anyway...tons of travelling and all kinds of questionable. its a sham - until a pro league is created with defense and correct officiating, this product is what everyone gets.
 

Pokerbrat2000

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Do you think Meddleton has that kind of trade value though?

I might exaggerate a hundred million gazillion times per second, but I feel like he's been injured more than he's played over the last two years.
Middleton definitely has trade value, but it isn't injuries necessarily that is suppressing that value as much as it is his contract. He is in his final year and can opt out of it by 6/21. He is due $40+M and while I don't think he is worth that much, a team on the cusp of a championship, might be willing to sign him to a multi-year deal with some guarantees.

Basically, for the Bucks to move him, his new team would need to work out a new contract with him and he might not like those new numbers or maybe he will take the security of a longer contract.

Depending on what the Bucks could get for him in future picks, I would be tempted to rework his deal, at a substantial discount. Am I disappointed in him? Sure, but he could still be valuable to the Bucks, in a more reduced role. More importantly, with a new coach that knows how to rotate guys better than Bud did.
 

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Your last paragraph says a lot about how Middleton was used. Poor rotations, and the fact that he was forced to play without using his best assets. If you recall, his best games came when he was slashing to the hoop, not forced to play a perimeter game. That was allowed mainly when Giannis was on the bench, or when injured. Looking at his stats, you can see he picked up a lot of the slack, when allowed to do it.

I believe that Khris would have opted out of his contract, without question, if Bud was still going to be there. Now, there's a chance he might want to stay.

The only reason I suggest trading him is because I see Beauchamp being capable of stepping up, and developing quite a bit in his second year. It would give the Bucks both cap room, and youth. The added bonus of decent draft picks as well.

I'm no longer sold on Nick Nurse being the next HC. Looking at his track record, he's not the best at working with young players. A HC in Milwaukee needs to be coach and teacher, surrounding himself with guys who have the same coaching acumen. It could be Lee, who was an assistant this year in Milwaukee, or Sam Cassell, who is constantly "coaching up" players, not just pointing out Xs and Os to them.
 

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Your last paragraph says a lot about how Middleton was used. Poor rotations, and the fact that he was forced to play without using his best assets. If you recall, his best games came when he was slashing to the hoop, not forced to play a perimeter game. That was allowed mainly when Giannis was on the bench, or when injured. Looking at his stats, you can see he picked up a lot of the slack, when allowed to do it.

I believe that Khris would have opted out of his contract, without question, if Bud was still going to be there. Now, there's a chance he might want to stay.

The only reason I suggest trading him is because I see Beauchamp being capable of stepping up, and developing quite a bit in his second year. It would give the Bucks both cap room, and youth. The added bonus of decent draft picks as well.

I'm no longer sold on Nick Nurse being the next HC. Looking at his track record, he's not the best at working with young players. A HC in Milwaukee needs to be coach and teacher, surrounding himself with guys who have the same coaching acumen. It could be Lee, who was an assistant this year in Milwaukee, or Sam Cassell, who is constantly "coaching up" players, not just pointing out Xs and Os to them.
Much like the NFL, I don't pay attention to other teams in the NBA. Once the Bucks were eliminated, no interest in watching any of the other teams play. That said, I know very little about other coaches. However, one thing I never really like to see is promoting from within, if coaching is already the issue. Seems like you are just chopping one branch off a dying tree, to see if another one will grow. It really feels like the players and team need a new perspective and that would mean a HC that they are new to IMO.

Again, I know very little about the 5 or so names being thrown around. The big positive that I seem to always read about Nurse is that he is very good at handling superstars (Leonard) and playing rotational basketball around that player. As good as Giannis is, I think he can be even better, but Bud didn't know how to use him correctly. Figuring that out, should be the #1 priority of a new coach.
 
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Yeah, I have no idea who would make a good HC in the NBA. I googled available NBA HCs and got a list. Read the synopsis of each of the top 10 and nobody really jumped out at me.
 

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It's difficult figuring out which guys would be the best fit. Too many variables. About all I can relate to is information about their coaching styles, and favored offenses and defenses. Then I look for info on how they "coach up" draft picks and free agents. Some are known for their skills in relating to coaching the younger players, others, not so much.

I don't believe Bud was a good coach with young players. I thought Nwora should have advanced further than he had, but Bud didn't rate him too highly. Here's the comparison of his stats early this season with the Bucks, and then with the Pacers, after he was traded. His figures went up substantially, and gives a pretty good idea how well he played on offense. Bud never explored his potential. I don't think he had the patience, or the skills, to do it. That's why I like guys like Sam Cassell as a potential new coach. He knows exactly what has to happen to enhance the Bucks outside game, having been a point guard for nearly two decades in the NBA. Nwora, by the way, averaged 17 points per game over his last 8, when given more court time, and had a high of 33, as a starter. He was never given any opportunity to do anything like that, with the Bucks.

----------------------------------------Games---Minutes-------PPG----------%-----------3 Pt %-------Reb------Assists---Steals
2022-23Pacers2424.613.047.642.24.72.10.5
2022-23Bucks3815.76.038.639.23.11.00.3
 

Pokerbrat2000

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It's difficult figuring out which guys would be the best fit. Too many variables. About all I can relate to is information about their coaching styles, and favored offenses and defenses. Then I look for info on how they "coach up" draft picks and free agents. Some are known for their skills in relating to coaching the younger players, others, not so much.

I don't believe Bud was a good coach with young players. I thought Nwora should have advanced further than he had, but Bud didn't rate him too highly. Here's the comparison of his stats early this season with the Bucks, and then with the Pacers, after he was traded. His figures went up substantially, and gives a pretty good idea how well he played on offense. Bud never explored his potential. I don't think he had the patience, or the skills, to do it. That's why I like guys like Sam Cassell as a potential new coach. He knows exactly what has to happen to enhance the Bucks outside game, having been a point guard for nearly two decades in the NBA. Nwora, by the way, averaged 17 points per game over his last 8, when given more court time, and had a high of 33, as a starter. He was never given any opportunity to do anything like that, with the Bucks.

----------------------------------------Games---Minutes-------PPG----------%-----------3 Pt %-------Reb------Assists---Steals
2022-23Pacers2424.613.047.642.24.72.10.5
2022-23Bucks3815.76.038.639.23.11.00.3

In hind site, the Bucks got absolutely fleeced on the Nwora trade. Of course, as you stated, seems that Bud didn't know what kind of player he had in Nwora.

That trade saw the Bucks send 24 year old Nwora, Hill, Ibaka and 3 second round picks to the Pacers and 2 second rounders to the Nets. All the Bucks got in the 3 team deal was fricking Jae Crowder. :mad: Crowder is also now a free agent. I actually had high hopes for that trade and thought Crowder was going to be a really sold piece, he sucked.
 

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