Bad news for people who attend games

[ivo610]

No more military fly overs in 2013 as of right now

 

[slaughter25]

No more military fly overs in 2013 as of right now

Always been an important part of the pregame IMO. Why are they wanting to get rid of it?

 

[ivo610]

Always been an important part of the pregame IMO. Why are they wanting to get rid of it?

Govt budget cuts

 

[HardRightEdge]

Always been an important part of the pregame IMO. Why are they wanting to get rid of it?

Cost cut under the sequester.

 

[slaughter25]

Govt budget cuts

Wow, I guess it probably isn't too cheap to fly those puppies around. And I thought my insurance premium is high Wish there was some way fans could off set the cost via donations or something. I just feel like I would be missing an important part of the experience if I didn't get to feel my heart race when the jets flew over or my bones rattle as the big heli comes over.

 

[ivo610]

Wow, I guess it probably isn't too cheap to fly those puppies around. And I thought my insurance premium is high Wish there was some way fans could off set the cost via donations or something. I just feel like I would be missing an important part of the experience if I didn't get to feel my heart race when the jets flew over or my bones rattle as the big heli comes over.

I'm a big fan too, but it's a completely unneeded govt expense. Hopefully the packers will come up with something pretty sweet instead to get the crowd going

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Damn, that sucks.......pretty sad considering that as of March 2013, Jet fuel was WAY cheaper than the average gallon of 87 octane for your passenger cars. Jet fuel was $2.97 per gallon vs $3.55 national average for Gas.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

I live literally 2 miles from MCAS (Marine Corps Air Station) New River here in Jacksonville NC. Does not seem to me that the Gov is stepping back any training. I see and hear CH-55 and CH-56 choppers and the Ospreys are always flying training missions day and night. I get used to it, but still pay attention to what's overhead. Seems like these cut backs have not yet taken affect.

 

[Pack15]

This was brought up on PFT before. The point eveyone was making is that we need to train these pilots anyways so why not train them and have them fly over the games? Seems logical to me.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

This was brought up on PFT before. The point eveyone was making is that we need to train these pilots anyways so why not train them and have them fly over the games? Seems logical to me.

They have reservist that train one weekend a month, why not do the fly-over as part of training? At least for a couple games per month different units could do the fly over........

 

[HardRightEdge]

Damn, that sucks.......pretty sad considering that as of March 2013, Jet fuel was WAY cheaper than the average gallon of 87 octane for your passenger cars. Jet fuel was $2.97 per gallon vs $3.55 national average for Gas.

It's more than the fuel. The biggest cost might be the depreciation on the plane. The incremental cost of each unit probably runs in the tens of millions of $ with X hours of usable flight time. Then there's maintenance. I suppose there might be ground crew time or tower crew time otherwise not expended, etc., etc.

If the fly over does have a specific training function or helps pilots fill their flight hour requirements, cutting back doesn't make sense and starts to look political. If the fly over is for entertainment and military PR only, then this is an isolated example pointing to bigger questions.

This is the first time, and hopefully the last, I'll go off topic in this way. I'll use this dead period as an excuse. I'm no tea bagger, far from it, but stuff like this begs the question: "Why should it take a sequester for government agencies to apply line-by-line scrutiny to their costs?" While the sequester is a ham handed way to go about cost cutting, it might inculcate some useful habits. Call me a c*ck-eyed optimist.

If the all-in costs of a flyover are $5,000 or $10,000; that could be one month or ten months of an expensive cancer treatment for a Medicare or Medicaid patient. Or 100 or 200 pot holes. We Americans are spoiled and largely financially illiterate.

 

[texaspackerbacker]

They need to do training flights somewhere sometime. It shouldn't be any more expensive to do them on game day near a stadium.

 

[HardRightEdge]

They need to do training flights somewhere sometime. It shouldn't be any more expensive to do them on game day near a stadium.

Yeah, and it's probably not the right kind of flying and it is being done at the convenience of somebody else's schedule, probably not the most cost effective schedule. And among other things, there's probably some contractor Sunday double-time in those costs somewhere. I'm not saying it can't make sense, but it probably doesn't.

These exercises are mostly patriotic entertainments with a military PR component.

 

[Darth Garfunkel]

According to these guys it costs $17,000 an hour for f-15 flyovers and $42,000 an hour for a b-2. It does come out of their training budget but still...

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/football/super-bowl/A-Super-Bowl-moment-that-costs-taxpayers-450000.html

 

[HardRightEdge]

According to these guys it costs $17,000 an hour for f-15 flyovers and $42,000 an hour for a b-2. It does come out of their training budget but still...

http://www.wfaa.com/sports/football/super-bowl/A-Super-Bowl-moment-that-costs-taxpayers-450000.html

There you go. And just because it comes out of the "training budget" doesn't mean it's necessary training, the best training, or even training at all.

The costs have to go into some budget line. I doubt they have a "public entertainment" or "public relations" budget at all. That would not look good.

"I would hesitate to say there is a need for it," Cmdr. Hewlett said. "There is a desire for it. There's a want there. There's a public interest. There's a lot of Americans that want to look up and say, 'We are super proud of our Marines, our sailors out there doing the job every day.'"

It's being cut because it is a PR function. I'd rather see the pot holes get filled or somebody get necessary medical care.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

Yeah, and it's probably not the right kind of flying and it is being done at the convenience of somebody else's schedule, probably not the most cost effective schedule. And among other things, there's probably some contractor Sunday double-time in those costs somewhere. I'm not saying it can't make sense, but it probably doesn't.

These exercises are mostly patriotic entertainments with a military PR component.

Yes, it is costly....but....there is NO contractor overtime involved I can win that bet all day long. I work with dozens of DHS and DOD contractors and NONE of them are authorized any overtime. They are on a strict 8 hours a day contract not to be deviated from. What you see during a typical fly-over are ANG (air national guard) units that are doing weekend training or their two weeks a year training and have been asked to deviate slightly and fly over at a pre-designated time. As darth garfunkel noted, it is costly, but they would have been flying anyhow due to logging in training hours which are required monthly to keep qualifications up to par.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Yes, it is costly....but....there is NO contractor overtime involved I can win that bet all day long. I work with dozens of DHS and DOD contractors and NONE of them are authorized any overtime. They are on a strict 8 hours a day contract not to be deviated from. What you see during a typical fly-over are ANG (air national guard) units that are doing weekend training or their two weeks a year training and have been asked to deviate slightly and fly over at a pre-designated time. As darth garfunkel noted, it is costly, but they would have been flying anyhow due to logging in training hours which are required monthly to keep qualifications up to par.

darth gave us the costs. Higher than I mentioned, contractor overtime or not.

 

[Oshkoshpackfan]

^lol...true...either way, costly in some eyes or not....it still sucks that the Jets or choppers wont do a fly over. To some civilians and their kids, that might be the rare time to witness the raw power and awe of our military fighting air power.

 

[VolvoD]

oh man, this sucks! the flyover is just one of those things that takes your breath away. i don't mind my tax dollars going to it!

 

[texaspackerbacker]

There's a simple solution: just pay for it. $17,000 for F15s, $42,000 for the B-2; That's chicken feed for an NFL team or owner. Hell, if I was a decent player, on my birthday, I'd have the B-2 Bomber fly over dragging a banner saying Happy Birthday to ME hahaha.

 

[HardRightEdge]

^lol...true...either way, costly in some eyes or not....it still sucks that the Jets or choppers wont do a fly over. To some civilians and their kids, that might be the rare time to witness the raw power and awe of our military fighting air power.

Here's a win-win-win idea. Let's say the defense contractors reduced their lobbying budgets and used the money to pay for these flyovers. In that case, I wouldn't mind seeing them at every little league game and field hockey match across this fair land.

The plane manufacturers are the ones who benefit most from the PR knock-on effects of these displays. There would be a second knock-on affect of lower defense contractor lobbying $ at work yielding substantial government cost savings.

When you read about divisions worth of Abrams tanks rusting in the Nevada desert (OK, not too much rust, it's a "dry heat"), and an order for $2 billion more that the Army and the Marines didn't ask for and don't want, then starving contractors of lobbying money could be a great boon.

Just a thought.

 

[HardRightEdge]

oh man, this sucks! the flyover is just one of those things that takes your breath away. i don't mind my tax dollars going to it!

That's fine. It's a democracy. But when you feel compelled to complain about incremental increases in your property tax bill or Medicare premium, or that pot hole in front of your house that hasn't been filled, or the fact your kid has 30 in his class instead of 25, all of which arise from millions of like expenditures, remember this discussion.

I think the populace is starting to get it through their heads that tax-and-spend is about a 98% zero sum game once you adjust for fiscal deficits.

Every time we pay for one thing out of tax dollars, there is something else of value you forgo or pay for with more debt. It's long past time to forgo the circuses and focus on the bread.

 

[13 Times Champs]

So when are they going to stop them at NASCAR races? I have a feeling this thread is going to turn ugly

 

[HardRightEdge]

So when are they going to stop them at NASCAR races? I have a feeling this thread is going to turn ugly

It could get ugly. I wish it weren't raining today.

 

[VolvoD]

That's fine. It's a democracy. But when you feel compelled to complain about incremental increases in your property tax bill or Medicare premium, or that pot hole in front of your house that hasn't been filled, or the fact your kid has 30 in his class instead of 25, all of which arise from millions of like expenditures, remember this discussion.

I think the populace is starting to get it through their heads that tax-and-spend is about a 98% zero sum game once you adjust for fiscal deficits.

Every time we pay for one thing out of tax dollars, there is something else of value you forgo or pay for with more debt. It's long past time to forgo the circuses and focus on the bread.

Nah, I will just lobby for the tax all to be paid on your part.