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Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by tromadz, May 21, 2006.

  1. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Ooh... I was getting the Kleenex out, but I'll put it back ... for now
     
  2. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Once again, I beat you to the punch arrow. :wink:

    I'm telling you, out with the old, in with the new. :D
     
  3. arrowgargantuan

    arrowgargantuan Cheesehead

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    what the hell are you talking about?






    :wink:
     
  4. pantherd

    pantherd Cheesehead

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    What's the deal with GB players? MM, Walker, Harris, Sharper, Longwell, etc all seem to feel underpaid in GB? From an outsiders vantage point, not renegotiating a young, stud lineman in Wahle's contract seemed odd. Meanwhile Brett is making 12 or 13% of your total cap allowance for this season? I'm not trying to stir the pot, I'm trying to figure out why guys aren't happy to play in the Green and Gold for good money. Many want to scream about making more than market value to stay.
     
  5. thetombradyhater

    thetombradyhater Cheesehead

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    I don't think we really had the cap room to resign him and you guys made him like the richest interior lineman and probably overpaid
     
  6. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Very true, we did not have the cash althoug some amatuers feel the Packers did and Ted chose to let them go. RRRRRRIGGGHT that almost makes sense.
     
  7. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    That is not completely accurate. I do feel like TT should have opened the wallet to Wahle. I realize we were up against it cap wise but moves could have been made or not made that could have freed up cap space.
     
  8. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Compare what we had available and the contract Wahle got. Then come tell me its not accurate. I know I'm not perfect, but I did research it because I was quite pissed off we let BOTH of them go without keeping atleast one.

    If memory serves me correctly we had just around 2million to spare and his bonus was far greater than that as was his first year salary. Speaking about Wahle. The bonus Rivera got even though I think he's a good OL was way over priced. I'm hapy for him though. He got some cash.
    If you can't find the information, let me know. I'll see if I can dig it up too.

    Personally, I really wish we would have kept Wahle. I really liked him. But since living on my own I understand sometimes you simply can not afford what you want and have to make do with what you can get.
     
  9. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

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    No way could TT afford either Wahle or Rivera. Rivera was way overpaid by Dallas..good for him, he got his dough...

    As far as Wahle, the Panthers gave him a huge contract and the Packers were not even in the running for the most part.
     
  10. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Wahle Contract with Panthers...


    This is not a good sign...

    I'm not exact on the number the Packers had available, but I can promise it was not $11.5 million. Since it was bonus's though I'm sure some of it was pro rated over several years.



    Here's the rest of the article...


    I'm not sure what else you need to know now, but I'm sure you're gonna still say it's Ted's fault Wahle left and honestly, Wahle believes the same thing.
     
  11. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    GREAT point Zero!!! :wink:
     
  12. pantherd

    pantherd Cheesehead

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    You cut him. You had the room to negotiate a new contract. He wasn't paid the "richest" interior lineman money, but did get money equivalent to the average of the top 5 or so guards in the league. Which, well, he is. It's all market value.
     
  13. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Where are your sources? He was the highest paid when he signed his Panthers contract, per JSOnline.com.

    I want you to show me the numbers proving the Packers could have kept Wahle. If you can't provide them, retract your false statement. This is an argument that has been held many times and each time the player saying the Packers could have kept Wahle has been proven wrong. You wanna play? Show your facts!

    If you can prove the facts I will gladly admit my stupidity and apologize for my arrogance and e-slap Ted Thompson in the family jewels for NOT keeping Wahle. I'm not sure having Wahle would have given us any more W's seeing as we had THE best OL in the NFL and couldn't do squat with it, but show me the facts regardless.
     
  14. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    TT could easily have kept Wahle if he had wanted to. He could have redone some contracts moving cap dollars from last year into this year when they had somewhere around $35 million in cap space available.

    TT did not want to pay Wahle big bucks and we're seeing the results of that decision.
     
  15. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    You wanna play the game too? Show me the facts and provide sources. I wanna be proven wrong!! Prove me wrong, prove my 'facts' and sources incorrect. Let's get the truth out there if its not already.



    Yea we saw the results of not having Wahle. If we would have had him, those damn Steelers wouldn't be holding OUR trophy. Right? Give me a break. DO I want him in GB? Hell yea, but stop acting like he's the missing link.
     
  16. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Who's contract would he have redone?

    Probably the bigger question..

    Who would of taken a pay cut.

    GB was in a cap mess from Sherman who signed guys like KGB, Ferguson, Joe Johnson, Cledius Hunt to high contracts. TT would have to ask players to take less money so we can give it to Mike Wahle. No wonder why we have so many holdouts.

    We didn't have the money for Wahle. We offered him a contract and Carolina offered a bigger contract, one we couldn't afford. They're wasn't anything TT could've done but hope Wahle would've taken less money. I don't blame Wahle for signing for big bucks, nor do I blame TT for not asking 4 or 5 guys to take pay cuts which probably wouldn't of happened anyways. Usually only veterens take pay cuts and Brett Favre has taken more than enough pay cuts in the past.
     
  17. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    pork, I think some people refuse to understand :(
     
  18. thetombradyhater

    thetombradyhater Cheesehead

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    yeah there is no way TT could have EASILY kept him
     
  19. SuperRat

    SuperRat Cheesehead

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    Perhaps Ted Thompson also could of thrown some pixie dust on former Hall of Famer Packers and they would of turned young again and played for the packers again for free.
     
  20. Buckeyepackfan

    Buckeyepackfan Cheesehead

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    This has been discussed before. TT could have signed Wahle if he wanted to. There was enough cap space available. Note the last paragraph of the article:

    Neil Cornrich
    NC Sports, LLC


    Friday, March 04, 2005
    Panthers go deep to sign key pair

    Free agents Wahle, Lucas get bonuses of almost $25 million

    PAT YASINSKAS
    Staff Writer

    March 4, 2005

    The Carolina Panthers, a team known for staying in shallow free-agent waters in recent years, took a huge plunge Thursday.

    With the lure of about $23 million in bonus money, the Panthers landed two elite free agents: Offensive lineman Mike Wahle from Green Bay and cornerback Ken Lucas from Seattle. After not getting a single starter in last year's free-agency period, the Panthers got two on the second day players were allowed to sign with other teams.

    "We don't get at this end of the pool a lot," general manager Marty Hurney said.

    "But we just felt like the opportunity was right for both these guys as far as being good fits and being our kind of people as well as very good players. We hope they're two guys that will be here for a long time at very important positions for us."

    Consider the moves a sign the Panthers believe they're a lot closer to being the Super Bowl team they were in 2003, than the 7-9 squad last season. Although the arrival of Lucas and Wahle might seem a departure from the team's practice of acquiring core players in the college draft, both players are young and fill major areas of needs.

    Wahle, who turns 28 this month, signed a five-year deal worth up to $28 million that includes $11.5 million in bonus money split between this year and next. His cap figure for this year will be $2.7 million.

    At the time The Packers were around 3 million under the cap. The contract would have had to be different, most of the bonus money would have had to been guaranteed the second year, but it could have been done.

    TT ended up spending most of the cap money he had available on second tier players trying to fill the holes left by Rivera and Wahle leaving, it didn't work out last year but now we have money to spend and some young guys who are showing potential so maybe in the long run The Pack will be better off.
    Nobody kniows which player is going to work out and which pl;ayer isn't, that is why GM's get hired and fired so often, the ones who get lucky and make the right moves look like geniuses, the others get fired and move on.
     
  21. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Thats exactly correct! I could name quite a few moves that we could have made to free up space including NOT RESIGNING DAVID MARTIN!

    It could have been done, period! Thier are dozens of scenarios that would have allowed Wahle to remain a Packer. TT chose to go a different direction.

    I do blame TT for this. He let Wahle walk without any real plan on how to replace him. Now we will pay the consequences.
     
  22. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Hmm, interesting. Wait, the Packers didn't have 3 million they had just under million.

    ARGH, I wish I was THERE so I knew the exact details!!! lol

    Ted's plan to replace them was shotty at best. I mean two oft injured players to replace to stud OL? I jus didn't understand that. OL needs durability.
     
  23. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Ted Thompson would have had to do a lot to keep him. In fact Wahle was offered a contract by the Packers but it wasn‘t as much as Carolina. So Thompson did try to keep Wahle. A contract was offered but we didn‘t have the money to compete with a team like Carolina.

    Green Bay had 3 (assuming that is correct, I believe it may have been less) million in cap space. Wahle wanted a lot of guaranteed money. GB didn't have that. We could of cut other players. Okay cut them and take a cap hit for the future. They're was too many things that Green Bay would of had to do in order to keep Wahle. Wahle was cut to avoid paying a 12.5 million dollar roster bonus. Why didn't we have the money to pay him? Joe Johnson, Cledius Hunt, KGB, and Robert Ferguson. That is why.

    Did Ted Thompson take part in signing any of the above guys I named. No he didn't. Thompson inherited a mess and had to fix it. Losing Wahle hurts and retaining him would of been great but you don't retain him and sacrifice the future of the Packers. That's exactly what would of happened. Last year Wahle wouldn't of won GB any more games than they did. The team lost because of poor coaching by the entire staff and mostly because of injuries. The team didn't lose because of not resigning Mike Wahle who we didn't have the money for. The teams future is now tied to Aaron Rodgers. The team had money this year to spend on help and we bulked up the defense which we need. We drafted key players with potential and we’ll have a lot of money to spend next year on free agents. Green Bay is bringing in guys to help them now but is also bringing in players that’ll help the future of the organization. Next year we’ll have money and we might be able to use it too give Aaron Rodgers something too work with. Then the core of Ted Thompson’s team will be set. 2-3 years down the road is how this team will be judged under Ted Thompson. Right now it’s still 50-50. Thompson and Sherman players.
     
  24. pantherd

    pantherd Cheesehead

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    proof: http://asp.usatoday.com/sports/football ... aspx?pos=1

    You have to search each position and look at cap figures. I've saved you the time:

    RB
    Car - $5,589,280
    GB - $7,433,067

    FB
    Car - $1,750,000
    GB - $1,693,820

    QB
    Car - $4,538,843
    GB - $11,943,733

    WR
    Car - $7,102,528
    GB - $6,985,255

    TE
    Car - $1,825,819
    GB - $3,096,210

    OT
    Car - $5,457,928
    GB - $6,783,001

    OG
    Car - $4,234,919
    GB - $2,401,100

    C
    Car - $5,584,330
    GB - $2,942,710

    K
    Car - $1,805,280
    GB - $1,901,210

    P
    Car - $482,640
    GB - $450,906

    LS
    Car - $746,760
    GB - $476,160

    DE
    Car - $11,621,886
    GB - $5,922,058

    DT
    Car - $5,609,657
    GB - $2,167,150

    OLB
    Car - $3,992,193
    GB - $5,101,356

    MLB
    Car - $3,592,705
    GB - $1,161,946

    CB
    Car - $5,420,929
    GB - $5,315,024

    FS
    Car - $4811,150
    GB - $691,765

    SS
    Car - $2,059,240
    GB - $1,671,240

    TOTALS
    Car - $76,226,087
    GB - $68,137,711

    Granted there are some dead money figures not included here, but with the cap ~ $85M, you were well under the cap figure and could have retained both Rivera AND Wahle! Therefore, I will not retract any of my true statements, but you're certainly welcome to "admit (your) stupidity and apologize for (your) arrogance and e-slap Ted Thompson in the family jewels" as you suggested.

    Wahle's cap figure was $2.7M last season... you had that much room with no other changes. You certainly could've created that sort of room by cutting a veteran with diminishing skills in favor of the young stud lineman.

    Finally, Wahle's cap figure was 12th in the league... not number one. His base salary was low on the todem pole as well. You must be referring to his total salary for last season which ranked second behind Rivera no less. Really who cares what these guys make as long as your cap is in line and your future of your cap is protected. That's the balancing act and bottom line. Wahle's wasn't the richest by any means.
     
  25. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    lol@stupid
    lol@arrogant

    You made me laugh with those!

    I do question this, why would Wahle, his agent and Andrew Brandt say(on the fan with Chris Havel) the Packers did not have the cap room for Wahle, but yet you think you know more than they do? Was their a conspiracy that you found and are now ready to exploit publicly? Do tell, do tell!!
     

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