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history question

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by buggybill2003, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. buggybill2003
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    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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    When, and who by, was the salary capping put into place ? I love this game but finally admit I haven`t got a clue about the history.
  2. longtimefan
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    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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  3. buggybill2003
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    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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  4. ivo610
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    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  5. buggybill2003
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    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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    If ya don`t ask, you`ll never know ;)
  6. bozz_2006
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    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    It's actually not easy to find succinct answers here. But it came about for the 1994 season as part of the 1993 collective bargaining agreement. Things were very tense in the years prior (player strikes, even) to this because the old agreement made it really tough for players to benefit from a true free agency; the old rules were heavily biased toward ownership. So the players sued and won (we lucked out and got Reggie White after the lawsuit settled). After the case was settled, the two sides had to get back together to negotiate a new CBA. Players got their free agency, but they didn't get it without concessions of their own.

    So, true free agency was a concession teams gave to players. The players conceded to a salary cap (which is why you don't see ridiculous $250M GUARANTEED contracts like you do in Major League Baseball, which has no cap). So, while that was a player concession, it's actually benefitted ownership and players alike. It levels the playing field for small-market teams, who simply don't have the earning ability (and thus, player-paying-ability) of large market teams.

    It's fascinating stuff.
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  7. buggybill2003
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    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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    Thanks Bozz :tup:

    English football doesn`t have one either, the result being more and more teams are going to the kerb, and teams who have big money (Both Manchester teams and Chelsea) almost buy success.
  8. bozz_2006
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    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    The argument against the cap is that it really doesn't create parity, as you have teams like New England near the top seemingly every year. That's BS though. They're just better at managing. I mean, anyone can design an awesome house, but designing an awesome house on a strict budget is tougher.

    And as an aside, if you haven't seen the movie "Money Ball", you have to check it out. It's about how the MLB Oakland A's (very small budget team) realized they couldn't beat the Yankees and Red Sox by trying to play the same kind of game as the Yankees and Red Sox. So, they basically used economics to piece together a winner. Great movie.
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  9. buggybill2003
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    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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    I`ll check that one out ;)
  10. HardRightEdge
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    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    There are three key difference between the NFL and MLB:

    (1) MLB has a cap, but it is not a hard cap. MLB teams can go over the cap by paying a cash fine, which is distributed to the poorer teams. The Yankees come to mind, of course. You can go over the the cap in the NFL, but the penalty is in cap space, not cash, and that cap space is distributed to the other teams. The Redskins' and Cowboys' caps were docked this past season for abusing the gentleman's agreement in the uncapped 2010 year. I think it was the Redskins who got hammered with at $20 mil cap penalty. All the the other teams got something like a $2 mil cap bump in 2012 for those two teams' transgressions. It is not hard to see why a rich, big market MLB team (Yankees) view the cash cap penalties as just a cost of doing business in order to improve competitiveness, thereby buying TV eyeballs. NFL cap penalties hammer competitiveness...nobody wants to go there.

    (2) In MLB, local media revenues are mostly not shared. National media in total, and partially the gate, are shared in MLB as in the NFL. But those unshared local media dollars are substantial and create a massive gap between, for example, the Yankees and the Royals. Again, the Yankees pull in massive local media money, sign tons of free agents, keep a competitive team on the field, keep people watching on TV, and then just pay the cash fine.

    (3) Baseball contracts are guaranteed. NFL contracts are guaranteed only on a contract-by-contract basis, as negotiated between team and player, and as a matter of practice are never fully guaranteed.

    What is interesting about all of this is you'd expect the NFL to have more competitive balance, with (1) and (2) outweighing (3). But team rotation at the top of the standings doesn't seem any greater in the NFL than in MLB. In both cases, certain teams stay highly competitive for long stretches, a few rise and fall in playoff contention each year, and a few teams fall into long stretches as perennial doormats. Somehow, despite the financial differences between the two, in the end talent selection and getting good bang for the buck determines competitiveness..."money ball" in whatever talent selection formula happens to work.

    What the NFL structure does accomplish is most teams make a decent to good return on investment; a few don't. Though ownership is still partially an ego/hobby proposition in most cases, rich guys don't like losing money, so that makes NFL ownership very attractive.

    Many MLB teams don't qualify as good investments. The hobby/ego/civic interest aspects must be stronger to own many of these teams.
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  11. weeds
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    weeds Cheesehead

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    Boy... some guys can be a little prickly at times, eh? :D LMFAO... good one. :)
  12. buggybill2003
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    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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    Guys am I missing something here ?? What is funny, the article, or the fact that I dont know how the salary cap works ? :eek:. I`m just asking because I dont get it.
  13. AmishMafia
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    AmishMafia There's cheese under that hat

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    The response was funny. Good graphics and an overall witty response. Although you thought you were getting a link to the information, he was just saying 'why not just google it?'
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  14. buggybill2003
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    buggybill2003 Cheesehead

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    Cheers Amish, I thought I must have made a fool of myself. Not too difficult at times :tup:
  15. bozz_2006
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    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    I was going for concise.
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  16. HardRightEdge
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    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Proud o' ya.
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  17. adambr2
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    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    I do find NFL contracts particularly hard to understand.

    With MLB, it's pretty simple. Oh sure, some contracts have incentives, no-trade clauses, and things of that nature, but most of them are straight up, you're getting 3 years, and $12 million. Simple. The money is all guaranteed. Cut a guy if you want, but you still have to pay him.

    Different story in the NFL. Some money is guaranteed, some is not, you may be able to cut somebody for significant savings. Plus there's signing bonuses, roster bonuses, workout bonuses, likely to be earned bonuses....it's complex. One thing that may start coming into play more -- NFL teams can now roll their unused cap dollars over to the following year.
  18. El Guapo
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    HRE provides some great information about the differences between the leagues. The statement about thinking that the NFL would have more competitive balance is sound. However, one must also keep in mind that both leagues are primarily still built around the drafting and development of players, which has less to do with local revenues and salary caps. It levels out the playing field, keeping revenue and cap maneuvers from being the deciding factors.

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