you think james jones will cut back on the drops?

[okcpackerfan]

He better do something to impress me this year. Otherwise i'm going to be pissed that Aaron/Jennings/Driver went to bat for the guy. He's already dropped a few in practice from what I've read...

Jones had me hating him more than any other Packer during post season last year. Even more than Jarrett Bush. I was furious every time he dropped a potential TD... and unfortunately there was more than one in the postseason alone. He got lucky that it didn't cost us a championship, 9.9 times out of 10 if you let a score slip thru your fingers in the post season, you don't advance...

1. I am sure he doesn't care about impressing you

2. I am sure he was more furious than you were at dropping those passes or if you were actually more furious than he was then you need to calm down

3. where are the stats that say its 9.9 out of 10 times that dropping a "potential" touchdown when you already have a lead results in a loss.

4. everyone chill we will be fine

go pack go

 

[Bensalama21]

I understand why you would be mad at Jones this past post-season, but why would you be mad at Jarrett Bush?

 

[Jordyruns]

I'm hoping Edgar Bennett will be working with the recievers on not droping passes . I read somewhere that last year as runningbacks coach he focused on not fumbling the ball. This obvioulsy worked out well the article said the packers backs only had 3 fumbles (all recovered by the pack). If he can transition this to dropped passes imagian how much better our offense will be, hell even if it's only james jones who he can get better we are golden.

I am not saying at all that fumbles and dropped passes will transition but with a new recievers coach maybe the drops will significantly decrease. One can hope

 

[Powarun]

I understand why you would be mad at Jones this past post-season, but why would you be mad at Jarrett Bush?

Lets leave the Bush can of worms closed. Bush redeemed himself versus the Steelers by his interception this year. Jones will probably improve, I'd love if he went to Larry Fitzgerald for help.

 

[Fazeman]

1. I am sure he doesn't care about impressing you

2. I am sure he was more furious than you were at dropping those passes or if you were actually more furious than he was then you need to calm down

3. where are the stats that say its 9.9 out of 10 times that dropping a "potential" touchdown when you already have a lead results in a loss.

4. everyone chill we will be fine

go pack go

1) There's always some degree of care whether it's a fan, teammate or coach.

2) We have the right to be furious when assessing player results.

3) Keep looking. Might be in your basement.

4) Because of pinpoint plays between Rodgers/Jennings and a damn good defense.

 

[TJV]

Even taking into account “hating” regarding sports and athletes doesn’t rise to the level of hate in the real world – or it shouldn’t, I don’t understand Packers fans using that word regarding players on the team they follow. Unless the player in question doesn’t give 100% or betrays the team, why would you “hate” the player?

IMO if you were still “hating” Bush last season, you weren’t allowing new information to adjust your opinion of him. Masthay really improved about midway through the season and if you didn’t notice, many times it was Bush downing Masthay’s punts. Bush’s most valuable contributions to the team have been, and are supposed to be, on special teams.

3) Keep looking. Might be in your basement.

I usually appreciate a sarcastic comment or an attempt at humor but Fazeman you were the one that posted, “9.9 times out of 10 if you let a score slip thru your fingers in the post season, you don't advance...” The one advancing a stat or fact has the burden of backing it up, doesn’t he? Or was that another example of your posting something not meant to be taken literally? And if so, how are we supposed to know that?

 

[Fazeman]

Even taking into account “hating” regarding sports and athletes doesn’t rise to the level of hate in the real world – or it shouldn’t, I don’t understand Packers fans using that word regarding players on the team they follow. Unless the player in question doesn’t give 100% or betrays the team, why would you “hate” the player?

IMO if you were still “hating” Bush last season, you weren’t allowing new information to adjust your opinion of him. Masthay really improved about midway through the season and if you didn’t notice, many times it was Bush downing Masthay’s punts. Bush’s most valuable contributions to the team have been, and are supposed to be, on special teams.

Bush's DB performance over the years was detrimental to the team. So it's easy to say that I hated his performance. As for our special teams effort, there hasn't been much to write home about. In the post season, Bush pleasantly surprised me.

I usually appreciate a sarcastic comment or an attempt at humor but Fazeman you were the one that posted, “9.9 times out of 10 if you let a score slip thru your fingers in the post season, you don't advance...” The one advancing a stat or fact has the burden of backing it up, doesn’t he? Or was that another example of your posting something not meant to be taken literally? And if so, how are we supposed to know that?

I was not the one who posted the “9.9 times out of 10 if you let a score slip thru your fingers in the post season, you don't advance...” comment. Regarding my Harrell/Jones post, I reckon that in a literal sense, Harrell's continual back problems were comparable to Jones' continual over the shoulder drops. But, Harrell is a bust. I'll just keep my fingers crossed that Jones doesn't continue to bust at the seams.

 

[okcpackerfan]

1) There's always some degree of care whether it's a fan, teammate or coach.

2) We have the right to be furious when assessing player results.

3) Keep looking. Might be in your basement.

4) Because of pinpoint plays between Rodgers/Jennings and a damn good defense.

lol don't be mad bro

the basement comment was funny though, very mature. Almost like it comes from a guy who never played any sort of sport and is living vicariously through what his favorite team does on the field.

 

[TJV]

Bush's DB performance over the years was detrimental to the team. So it's easy to say that I hated his performance. As for our special teams effort, there hasn't been much to write home about. In the post season, Bush pleasantly surprised me.

In 2009, Ted Thompson matched Tennessee’s offer to Bush of about $1.5M per year. As I remember it, a couple of other teams, including Baltimore, were also interested. So it isn’t only Thompson who views Bush’s STs contributions as valuable; other NFL teams did as well. According to McGinn in the Insider’s pay section, in 2010 Bush led the team in ST’s tackles, he drew several holding penalties, downed a “host of punts” and forced a fumble. So while you were hating him or his performance, he was one of the few bright spots on the coverage units all of last season, not just the post season. Yes, the Packers STs were bad last season, ranking 29th in the Dallas Morning News rankings, but I think that has more to do with the coaching than the play of one player, particularly if that player is the best, or one of the best players on coverage units. Consider that their poor 2010 ranking was actually an improvement over 2009. And in ’08 the Packers finished 26th, they tied for 7th in ’07 and were 32nd in ’06. And that takes us back to McCarthy’s first season.

When 98Redbird posted, “Jones had me hating him more than any other Packer during the post season" and included the 9.9 times out of 10 “stat” you quoted his entire post and posted, “You couldn't have said it better.” I assume that meant you agreed with 98Redbird’s post in it’s entirety. When okcpackerfan challenged the “stat”, you challenged him. So while you didn’t post the stat you seemed to be in complete agreement with it.

Regarding my Harrell/Jones post, I reckon that in a literal sense, Harrell's continual back problems were comparable to Jones' continual over the shoulder drops. But, Harrell is a bust. I'll just keep my fingers crossed that Jones doesn't continue to bust at the seams.

How different is comparing Harrell’s injury problems to Jones’ drops to posting Jones’ “… staying power is just as vexing as was Justin Harrell's …” I suggest going back and reviewing the stats I posted before comparing the two yet again.

BTW, it’s one thing to criticize something Thompson does – nothing at all wrong with that – but it’s another to post he just extended a bust that you hope won't continue to bust. Or didn’t you mean that literally?

 

[Fazeman]

lol don't be mad bro

the basement comment was funny though, very mature. Almost like it comes from a guy who never played any sort of sport and is living vicariously through what his favorite team does on the field.

I'm never mad okcpackerfan. Just jumpin' in and having a little fun.

In 2009, Ted Thompson matched Tennessee’s offer to Bush of about $1.5M per year. As I remember it, a couple of other teams, including Baltimore, were also interested. So it isn’t only Thompson who views Bush’s STs contributions as valuable; other NFL teams did as well. According to McGinn in the Insider’s pay section, in 2010 Bush led the team in ST’s tackles, he drew several holding penalties, downed a “host of punts” and forced a fumble. So while you were hating him or his performance, he was one of the few bright spots on the coverage units all of last season, not just the post season. Yes, the Packers STs were bad last season, ranking 29th in the Dallas Morning News rankings, but I think that has more to do with the coaching than the play of one player, particularly if that player is the best, or one of the best players on coverage units. Consider that their poor 2010 ranking was actually an improvement over 2009. And in ’08 the Packers finished 26th, they tied for 7th in ’07 and were 32nd in ’06. And that takes us back to McCarthy’s first season.

Interesting how you're avoiding the position for which he was signed; defensive back. Turns out that he didn't pan out and was only maintained while the Packers were sorting through other possibilities for a replacement. As I said earlier, I was pleasantly surprised by Bush's SB performance as compared to the subject matter of this thread; James Jones.

When 98Redbird posted, “Jones had me hating him more than any other Packer during the post season" and included the 9.9 times out of 10 “stat” you quoted his entire post and posted, “You couldn't have said it better.” I assume that meant you agreed with 98Redbird’s post in it’s entirety. When okcpackerfan challenged the “stat”, you challenged him. So while you didn’t post the stat you seemed to be in complete agreement with it.

Other than the win/loss columns, I see little value in individual/team statistics because for the most part, they don't quantify negative results and they can't measure intangibles.

How different is comparing Harrell’s injury problems to Jones’ drops to posting Jones’ “… staying power is just as vexing as was Justin Harrell's …” I suggest going back and reviewing the stats I posted before comparing the two yet again.

BTW, it’s one thing to criticize something Thompson does – nothing at all wrong with that – but it’s another to post he just extended a bust that you hope won't continue to bust. Or didn’t you mean that literally?

Sometimes you have to read between the lines.

 

[ivo610]

some packers beat reporters think Bush will see plenty of time in the secondary this season. It wouldnt surprise me at all

 

[98Redbird]

1. I am sure he doesn't care about impressing you

Never said he did. No reason to be an ****** about it. But as one fan out of millions that make up the Packer fan base, he damn sure better be concerned about impressing and producing for us, otherwise, get the hell out of Green Bay.

2. I am sure he was more furious than you were at dropping those passes or if you were actually more furious than he was then you need to calm down

Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. And no, I will not calm down about wanting the perfection from the Packers. It's my passion and it's just the way it is. When they don't succeed or play poorly, I get frustrated. It's part of being an avid, die hard fan.

3. where are the stats that say its 9.9 out of 10 times that dropping a "potential" touchdown when you already have a lead results in a loss.

It's common sense, again, no point in being an *** about it. Listen to ANY post game or pre game interview... Coaches, players and everyone else will say that you CANNOT let opportunities slip through your fingers (Literally in Jones' case) in big time games and expect to win. It's always about the teams that make the most big plays, and every time he dropped one we let one of those big plays go.

Example: His drop in the philly game, would have gone for 6. He blew that chance and the game came down to the wire for us to win. Had philly made one more big play we could have been sitting at home the following week watching the Eagles play instead of us. Akers missed a bunch of FG's and Vick through and INT. They didn't make the plays, we did. So we won. Simple.

4. everyone chill we will be fine

Nobody is freaking out. Just really hoping that James Jones get's his hands in order and starts being clutch for us like Rodgers and Jennings are. Just want to see our Packers win.

go pack go

Couldn't agree more.

Go Pack Go

 

[98Redbird]

Lol, guys, when I said that 9.9 times out of 10, I was obviously exaggerating a little. Just trying to make a point. U guys take stuff way too literally sometimes. That's def not worth arguing about lol.

 

[okcpackerfan]

Originally Posted by okcpackerfan
1. I am sure he doesn't care about impressing you

Never said he did. No reason to be an ****** about it. But as one fan out of millions that make up the Packer fan base, he damn sure better be concerned about impressing and producing for us, otherwise, get the hell out of Green Bay.

2. I am sure he was more furious than you were at dropping those passes or if you were actually more furious than he was then you need to calm down

Maybe he was, maybe he wasn't. And no, I will not calm down about wanting the perfection from the Packers. It's my passion and it's just the way it is. When they don't succeed or play poorly, I get frustrated. It's part of being an avid, die hard fan.

3. where are the stats that say its 9.9 out of 10 times that dropping a "potential" touchdown when you already have a lead results in a loss.

It's common sense, again, no point in being an *** about it. Listen to ANY post game or pre game interview... Coaches, players and everyone else will say that you CANNOT let opportunities slip through your fingers (Literally in Jones' case) in big time games and expect to win. It's always about the teams that make the most big plays, and every time he dropped one we let one of those big plays go.

Example: His drop in the philly game, would have gone for 6. He blew that chance and the game came down to the wire for us to win. Had philly made one more big play we could have been sitting at home the following week watching the Eagles play instead of us. Akers missed a bunch of FG's and Vick through and INT. They didn't make the plays, we did. So we won. Simple.

4. everyone chill we will be fine

Nobody is freaking out. Just really hoping that James Jones get's his hands in order and starts being clutch for us like Rodgers and Jennings are. Just want to see our Packers win.

go pack go

Couldn't agree more.
Go Pack Go

1. lol in your response you say "I never said he did" in regards to impressing you and I **** you not in the same sentence you say "he better be concerned about impressing us" ....what???

production and impressing people have some correlation but are not one in the same. As a coach they look over the course of work and do not focus on one play out of 100.

2. Part of being an avid and die-hard fan is not getting frustrated and upset when we don't blowout teams or when mistakes are made. Its SUPPORTING the team through the losses and mistakes.

3. you still have not shown any stat at all that says when a team is LEADING and a missed opportunity for a POSSIBLE touchdown occurs that team ends up losing the majority of the time. If you are so inclined I am willing to make a substantial bet that teams who are leading and have an opportunity for a greater led but let an opportunity slip end up winning more than 50% of the time. That should be the common sense you speak of.

4. I guess telling everyone to chill means I said everyone was freaking out??? James Jones had plenty of big plays for us last year including a catch for a touchdown before halftime in Atlanta that started the blowout. I would call that pretty clutch as it was a very difficult catch.

I am adding in a #5

5. Good luck with life, I have no ill-will you and me just obviously think on different levels.

Go Pack Go

 

[98Redbird]

^^^ Okay.

 

[TJV]

Interesting how you're avoiding the position for which he was signed; defensive back.

Here's the headline of a jsonline story dated 3/16/2009 reporting the Packers matching the Titans' offer to Bush: "Packers prove they're happy with Bush on special teams" Here are the first two sentences from that story: "Since being claimed off waivers from the Carolina Panthers in 2006, Jarrett Bush has done one thing well for the Green Bay Packers. On Monday, that one thing - playing special teams - became the main reason Bush, a restricted free agent, was able to land a three-year deal that will boost his 2009 salary to $2 million." BTW the story also reports that the Jets, Ravens, Buccaneers, Saints, and Browns showed interest in him.

Of course a story on jsonline doesn't prove anything. I know Bush's main value to the Packers and some other teams whose front offices I respect was mostly due to his special teams play because I watched Bush and saw the obvious on the field. Since you disagree his main value was his special teams play can you point to any reporter, personnel guy, or coach who supports your view?

BTW, I find it interesting that you are avoiding Bush's play on STs for the entire 2010 season, and not just during the post season. Did you pay particular attention to it? Do you re-watch games and focus on particular players? Or do you stick with your preconceived ideas without allowing new information to modify your opinion of players?

Other than the win/loss columns, I see little value in individual/team statistics because for the most part, they don't quantify negative results and they can't measure intangibles.

I don't think stats ever tell the whole story but I also believe they have value, particularly if they are carefully interpreted. However, "games played" is such an obvious stat it doesn't require interpretation. Yet you keep arguing what is, on its face IMO, a foolish comparison: There have been 64 regular season games since Jones and Harrell were drafted. Jones has played in 58 - more than 90% of them - while Harrell played in 14 - less than 22%. In light of just games played, comparing the "staying power" of these two players looks nonsensical, doesn't it? And of course, Harrell was dismissed after the CBA was signed and Jones was extended by a GM who has built his reputation as a talent evaluator and has had four seasons to evaluate him. Teammates Greg Jennings and Aaron Rodgers lobbied the front office to keep Jones. Yet you call Jones a bust. Again, is there any professional observer of the NFL or Packers who agrees with you?

BTW, IMO there should not be any need to "read between the lines" on a discussion board since all posters have the opportunity to spell out what they mean. Look, this is just a discussion board dedicated to the Packers - in the grand scheme of things not very important. I'm glad this discussion has been civil but I've spent more time on this than it deserves. However, IMO comparisons such as the one you made deserve to be challenged. Otherwise, why have a discussion board?

 

[jrdulka]

Not sure if mentioned, but Driver had 7 drops last season and Jones had 6. The 4 big drops that Jones had also all came in games that we won.

 

[lookoutblock]

You have to figure he's at least going to revert back to the mean this year. It's hard to repeat that kind of season unless you're a complete mental basket case. He'll be fine.