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Wow, Packer fans, worst call I've ever seen

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Reverend Conehead, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. Reverend Conehead

    Reverend Conehead Cheesehead

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    I'm not even a Packer fan and I was appalled by how the Pack got royally screwed tonight. I've been a Cowboy fan since '72. It always seems like your own team gets the worst calls against it. Not anymore. That hail Mary "touchdown" at the end of the game was the worst call I've ever seen in all my years of watching football. I thought they would at least fix it with replay. It was incontrovertible proof, right? Well, it was, but they were boneheads. That play was an interception by the Packers, obviously. There was so little gray area it was ridiculous. The earlier pass interference was absurd too, as was the late hit on the QB. Bad calls, but the Hail Mary one was really BS.

    I used to really hate the Pack, but kind of forgave them a little for preventing the Steelers from getting another Super Bowl. However, I know other Cowboy fans who still really hate the Pack. They're the ones who celebrate any Packer loss. Even they're disgusted by that bad call because of what it does to the integrity of the sport.
     
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  2. Pen

    Pen Cheesehead

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    Dude, that was a controversial call, but let's be serious, Testeverde's helmet crosses the line and it's a touchdown? His HELMET? Costs Seattle the playoffs and THIS is the worst call of all time?

    How about the phantom holding call in SB XL or about a dozen other terrible calls in SB XL?

    Besides, photo evidence already shows two things: One - Tate got his left hand on the ball at the same time Jennings grabbed it. Two, Tates feet came down first and he had BOTH hands on the ball at that point. Three Jenning CAN'T, by definition of the rules, have possession of the ball until his feet touch the ground but by then they both had the ball.

    So it IS controversial. Sorry, a HELMET crossing the plane is the worst call by far.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 7
  3. Brandon

    Brandon Cheesehead

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    Sorry but your interpretation of that rule is incorrect. By definition the CATCH is not made until both feet land in bounds with one OR two hands on the ball--You ARE allowed to make a one handed catch in the NFL which constitutes a catch with possession if you maintain control.. HOWEVER: When a defensive player and offensive player simultaneously make contact with the football, possession is determined by which player has BOTH hands on the ball first and replay will clearly indicate that Jennings not only had two hands on the ball first, but he also had the ball clutched to his chest.

    It wasn't until Jennings and Tate were falling to the ground when Tate finally moved to secure two hands on the ball, WHILE the ball still remained against Jennings chest. Possession never left Jennings and should have been awarded the INT, and likely would have been if the regular officials reviewed the replay. Packers got screwed and tattooed, plain and simple.
     
  4. BallHawk

    BallHawk Cheesehead

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    "Possession never left Jennings and should have been awarded the INT, and likely would have been if the regular officials reviewed the replay. Packers got screwed and tattooed, plain and simple."​
    But regular officials DID review the play, or whatever those jokers are called that sit up there in the review booth. ​
     
  5. Jordyruns

    Jordyruns Cheesehead

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    Yo n00b, there was no replay back then so I don't want to hear it about Vinny because there were far worse calls made in the 70s and 80s that no one talks about (the one where the Oilers obviously had a TD catch but was ruled no catch was way worse). How about the call in Cleveland where the refs went back to 2 plays previous and overturned a call, far far far worse than the no replay Vinny call.

    And the phantom holding, that was not the worse call (phantom holdings happen all the time) the blocking below the waist was the worse call, but those cannot be reviewed so there was no way they could change either one of those calls. I'm not denying you were on the wrong end of Super Bowl 40 because you were, but trying to defend that last night just makes you seem like a poor sport, but hey whatever helps you sleep at night man. You Pete Carroll and Golden Tate can all go hug it out and enjoy the deserved victory.
     
  6. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    From the rulebook, verbatim:

    Rule 8, Section 1, Article 3

    Item 5: Simultaneous Catch. If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control.

    From the photo evidence, Jennings had control first.
     

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  7. Purplepeopleeater

    Purplepeopleeater Cheesehead

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    Hindsight is 20-20. In full motion, it could have looked like a simultaneous catch.
     
  8. Philtration

    Philtration Cheesehead

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    Upon further review.... Seahawks win!
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Old Old x 1
  9. hawkfan

    hawkfan Cheesehead

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    I know you guys are upset. It was close, and in your shoes I might be upset as well. I would ask that you guys take a look at this gif, it looks to me like they get to the ball at the same time, which means that jennings couldn't have had control before tate had partial possession. Tate has 2 feet down in the end zone, with partial possession and doesn't lose it until after the play should have been blown dead (when he was down and stopped moving).

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. ARod

    ARod Cheesehead

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    If you look closely at that gif, you will see that Jennings gets both hands on the ball first and maintains both hands on the ball all the way down, having so much control that he can even pull the ball into his chest before he hits the ground! Tate gets one hand on it only after Jennings has caught it. It is not simultaneous possession, since Tate did not get his hands on the ball until after Jennings has both hands on the ball.

    This is clearly an interception, and seeing it any other way is to see it with rose colored glasses on.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Winner Winner x 2
  11. hawkfan

    hawkfan Cheesehead

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    ARod, I definitely understand what you are saying. Don't think I'm ignoring your point at all because I'm not. Perhaps, I'm a little biased, perhaps I'm groping for a way to make it right that we got the W.

    I would agree with you 100% that your player has MORE control, that said, Tate has his LEFT hand on the ball at the same moment and his left hand never leaves the football. All the GB guy has to do is get Tates left hand off the ball for a split second and it's an INT by rule. I'm not sure that that happened though. Control, however small is control and justifies them both catching the ball and it being a TD.
     
  12. GeeDogWarrior

    GeeDogWarrior 0 - 0

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    Tate did a good job breaking MD's fall.... MD did a good job leaping up - catching the ball - double tapping his feet in bounds - then watching the refs flub up.... :sick:
     
  13. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    Tate's right hand is actually clearly on Jennings right wrist or lower. Thanks for the gif. It's the clearest I've seen.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. hawkfan

    hawkfan Cheesehead

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    PFanCan, you're right, his right had is NOT on the ball, however his left is. Nothing says you cant make a catch or have partial control with one hand.
     
  15. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    From the rule book:
    Rule 3, Section 2, Article 7
    Item 1: Player in Possession: A player is in possession when he is in firm grip and control of the ball inbounds.

    (The bold is mine)

    There should be no argument that Jennings has a firm grip and is in control of the ball from the moment that he has both hands on the ball and certainly during the process as he brings it to his chest.

    However, when does Tate obtain a firm grip and control of the ball? Hmmm.
     
  16. PFanCan

    PFanCan That's MISTER Cheesehead, to you.

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    Isn't replay also "hindsight"? From what I am reading, the replay official could have over-turned the TD call (versus what ESPN had originally announced).
     
  17. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    That is not the issue. Jennings had both hands on the ball FIRST, then he brought the ball into his chest. Tate did NOT make simultaneous contact with the ball. He got his hand on the ball AFTER Jennings had caught it WHILE he was bringing it to his chest.
     
  18. hawkfan

    hawkfan Cheesehead

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    If a pass is caught simultaneously by two eligible opponents, and both players retain it, the ball belongs to the passers. It is not a simultaneous catch if a player gains control first and an opponent subsequently gains joint control. If the ball is muffed after simultaneous touching by two such players, all the players of the passing team become eligible to catch the loose ball.

    So the real question here is, did Jennings gain control before Tate had any semblance of control?

    My personal belief is that you can argue it either way. If you believe tates LEFT hand signifies at least a spec of control and it never leaves the football, then it's a touchdown. If not, then it's an interception.

    On your last point, my understanding is that the review officials couldn't overturn simultaneous possession which was the call on the field. If you put yourself in the shoes of the review official, forced to agree that there is simultaneous possession, does tates left hand ever leave the ball prior to him being down to make it an interception?

     
  19. hawkfan

    hawkfan Cheesehead

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    ExpatPacker, I disagree, I think Tates left hand is on the football at the same time as Jennings hands get to it. If I agreed with you that Jennings hands got there first, then I would agree it's an interception.
     
  20. hawkfan

    hawkfan Cheesehead

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    I am wrong about the review. The official report from the nfl on their press release is that it is review-able in the end zone.

    Replay Official Howard Slavin stopped the game for an instant replay review. The aspects of the play that were reviewable included if the ball hit the ground and who had possession of the ball. In the end zone, a ruling of a simultaneous catch is reviewable. That is not the case in the field of play, only in the end zone.
     
  21. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    Having a hand on the ball does not qualify as possession. Especially since the ball was in both hands of the defender. If I catch a ball with both hands, and then you put a hand on the ball after that, it doesn't mean that you also have possession. Jennings then cradled the ball to his chest. His possession is clear. For Tate to keep a hand on the ball that the Jennings had secured does not qualify as simultaneous possession.
     
  22. hawkfan

    hawkfan Cheesehead

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    The heart breaking part about this whole thing. For me and everyone else included is that the rule sucks. Jennings obviously has MORE control. I just feel that with how the rule is written, it's a TD.
     
  23. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    I haven't seen any angle that supports that.
     
  24. hawkfan

    hawkfan Cheesehead

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    ExpatPacker, You're right, a hand on the ball does not signify possession. It does, however, signify a SMALL amount of control. Which means that, Jennings did not have control prior to Tate having some control of the ball (albeit a small amount). That means, that as long as Tate doesn't lose his small amount of control (in this case his left hand) by rule it is a simultaneous catch and a TD for Seattle.
     
  25. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Very sporting of you. Hope we meet you in the playoffs
     

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