Worth reading: MM's and TT's future, possible GM candidates

[HardRightEdge]

I attribute the extent to which we've achieved perennial contender status to (1) Rodgers, (2) McCarthy and (3) Thompson, in that order.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I for one hope this duo sticks around for a while. For those who want one or both gone this to me is a perfect example of the grass in greener scenario. How many fanbases would give an arm to have the consistency the Packers have had for some time now. Every year there are teams that are supposed to be good and they end up laying an egg. Then you have the supposed doormat who jumps up and becomes relevant but seem to disappear within a season or two. Every single year we know we will have a legit shot at the Norris title and a deep playoff run. Don't get me wrong, we don't make this deep PO run every year but the simple fact that we stay relevant year in year out is something that I for one am very proud of! I try not to but I find myself playing the "what if" game when thinking of all the injuries that have hampered us in years past. We are one of the younger teams every year yet we consistently put a nice product on the field and give us fans something to be hopeful about. I say kudos to both Mike and Ted and while they are far from perfect I would be hard pressed to come up with many other duos I would want at the helm of my beloved team! GPG!!

Thompson will be the Packers GM as long as he wants to. I got the impression during this offseason that he doesn´t plan on extending his current contract though.

 

[HardRightEdge]

Thompson will be the Packers GM as long as he wants to. I got the impression during this offseason that he doesn´t plan on extending his current contract though.

Yeah, before the draft it sounded like "one day at a time". Now it's, "I'm just getting started."

Ironic, isn't it? He's starting to sound like Favre, frustrating the planning process.

 

[Shawnsta3]

Yeah, before the draft it sounded like "one day at a time". Now it's, "I'm just getting started."

Ironic, isn't it? He's starting to sound like Favre, frustrating the planning process.

"Starting to sound like him"

Until he retires, then unretires, then trashes the Packer organization and signs with one of our greatest rivals let's not directly compare the two.

 

[Poppa San]

Yeah, before the draft it sounded like "one day at a time". Now it's, "I'm just getting started."

Ironic, isn't it? He's starting to sound like Favre, frustrating the planning process.

I wonder if he had/has a medical issue that eventually turned out to be misdiagnosed or not as bad as originally feared.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I wonder if he had/has a medical issue that eventually turned out to be misdiagnosed or not as bad as originally feared.

I can´t remember if I have seen the information anywhere else, but Jason Wilde talks about a surgery Thompson had during the offseason which allowed him to work but not to travel (that´s why he missed the owner´s meeting in Orlando).

 

[Poppa San]

I can´t remember if I have seen the information anywhere else, but Jason Wilde talks about a surgery Thompson had during the offseason which allowed him to work but not to travel (that´s why he missed the owner´s meeting in Orlando).

Haven't looked at photos lately but he might have been tired from something like Chemo therapy. Haven't paid attention for the loss of hair.

 

[PWT]

I saw Ted Thompson shopping in Festival Foods in De Pere just few days before the draft was held. Ted looked to be good health at that time .

 

[TJV]

I attribute the extent to which we've achieved perennial contender status to (1) Rodgers, (2) McCarthy and (3) Thompson, in that order.

I take a longer view and attribute it to 1) Harlan (who put it all in place - with the temporary hiccup of promoting Sherman), 2) Wolf (who was a true "football man" and who among other things "found", trained and promoted Thompson), 3) Thompson, 4) Holmgren and McCarthy, and 5) Favre and Rodgers.

I was happy to learn that Murphy wants to keep the structure in place by insisting Thompson's extension precedes McCarthy's. As to Thompson's health, the speculation began with the pre-draft press conference in which Thompson's speech was slurred at times. IMO the explanation for that was more likely fatigue perhaps mixed with stress and a cold or flu bug. As Wilde reported, he spit out a cough drop before the press conference.

Green Bay’s permanent disadvantage is it’s small town reality that some players dislike. I hope going forward it’s permanent advantage will be keeping the structure Harlan initially put in place. Along with a world-wide and devoted fan base, that will bode well for the franchise.

 

[HardRightEdge]

I take a longer view and attribute it to 1) Harlan (who put it all in place - with the temporary hiccup of promoting Sherman), 2) Wolf (who was a true "football man" and who among other things "found", trained and promoted Thompson), 3) Thompson, 4) Holmgren and McCarthy, and 5) Favre and Rodgers.

I was happy to learn that Murphy wants to keep the structure in place by insisting Thompson's extension precedes McCarthy's. As to Thompson's health, the speculation began with the pre-draft press conference in which Thompson's speech was slurred at times. IMO the explanation for that was more likely fatigue perhaps mixed with stress and a cold or flu bug. As Wilde reported, he spit out a cough drop before the press conference.

Green Bay’s permanent disadvantage is it’s small town reality that some players dislike. I hope going forward it’s permanent advantage will be keeping the structure Harlan initially put in place. Along with a world-wide and devoted fan base, that will bode well for the franchise.

That's nice. I was confining my remarks to the hands on deck.

It's been my contention for some years now that Thompson's reputation as a top 5 GM is exaggerated. This was borne out with the Rodgers' injury. I've paraphrased some anonymous GM before and I'll paraphrase him again...when you have an elite QB, you start at 8-8 and work your way up. Thompson's built, on balance, a mediocre football team highlighted by a bad mix of talent on defense.

Thompson, together with Ball (though I'm not sure who should get the credit), have done a much better job managing the cap than Thompson has done evaluating players.

 

[Poppa San]

That's nice. I was confining my remarks to the hands on deck.

It's been my contention for some years now that Thompson's reputation as a top 5 GM is exaggerated. This was borne out with the Rodgers' injury. I've paraphrased some anonymous GM before and I'll paraphrase him again...when you have an elite QB, you start at 8-8 and work your way up. Thompson's built, on balance, a mediocre football team highlighted by a bad mix of talent on defense.

Thompson, together with Ball (though I'm not sure who should get the credit), have done a much better job managing the cap than Thompson has done evaluating players.

I fear this is again going to open up an endless, no resolution, debate but here goes. TT's reputation has been hamstrung by injuries more so than poor decisions. With Collins and Bishop in the middle of the field, Burnett looks better as does Hawk. We don't know how good B Jones, Perry, Neal, Sherrod, Bulaga, Heyward, Worthy really are. Have Clay in the post season and a gimpy Molumba is not outrun for a 1st down by Kapernut. A healthy Finley is more likely than not resigned, Quarles is not and Rodgers probably isn't drafted. The only true recent fiascoes roster wise that I can see is the backup QB's last offseason and the belief in the safeties that aren't on the roster this offseason. Overpaying marginal players is the cost of doing business. At least TT hasn't traded up to get a kicker in the 3rd round that didn't outlast his rookie contract.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

Simply put, I am a Green Bay Packer fan. I will support any player or senior official of the Green Bay Packers. I will always be grateful to anybody who strives to make this organisation great. Anybody who leaves the Packers under a cloud, or starts making dispareging comments about the Green Bay Packers ?, "Don`t let door hit you in the *** on your way out !", (and we`ve had a few).
I have always believed TT has had the interests of the Packers at heart, and until he proves me wrong, I will continue to give the man my support.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I fear this is again going to open up an endless, no resolution, debate but here goes. TT's reputation has been hamstrung by injuries more so than poor decisions. With Collins and Bishop in the middle of the field, Burnett looks better as does Hawk. We don't know how good B Jones, Perry, Neal, Sherrod, Bulaga, Heyward, Worthy really are. Have Clay in the post season and a gimpy Molumba is not outrun for a 1st down by Kapernut. A healthy Finley is more likely than not resigned, Quarles is not and Rodgers probably isn't drafted. The only true recent fiascoes roster wise that I can see is the backup QB's last offseason and the belief in the safeties that aren't on the roster this offseason. Overpaying marginal players is the cost of doing business. At least TT hasn't traded up to get a kicker in the 3rd round that didn't outlast his rookie contract.

I agree with HRE statement that Thompson is kind of overrated and Rodgers is the reason for the Packers being a perennial playoff team. The thing is though that finding a franchise QB is the most important task on every GM´s agenda and TT was able to draft one with his first pick ever and was confident enough to stick with him through the Favre fiasco in 2008.

I think there have been teams winning the Super Bowl over the last few years having better overall balance on their roster and not relying as heavy as the Packers on their QB to win it all, but it´s hard to argue with Thompson´s success.

Wouldn´t mind seeing him having more success drafting defensive players though or using free agency to fill obvious positions of need (with guys being signed to reasonable deals) in a year the draft doesn´t offer a lot of depth at the position (ILB this year).

 

[TJV]

That's nice. I was confining my remarks to the hands on deck.

It's been my contention for some years now that Thompson's reputation as a top 5 GM is exaggerated. This was borne out with the Rodgers' injury. I've paraphrased some anonymous GM before and I'll paraphrase him again...when you have an elite QB, you start at 8-8 and work your way up. Thompson's built, on balance, a mediocre football team highlighted by a bad mix of talent on defense.

Thompson, together with Ball (though I'm not sure who should get the credit), have done a much better job managing the cap than Thompson has done evaluating players.

That’s nice - I was taking a longer view, as I stated. Of course you’re entitled to your opinion that Thompson isn’t a top 5 GM because the Packers have an elite QB. But the two people you credit with being most responsible for the Packers’ perennial contender status were put in place by Thompson. Neither happened by accident. It wasn’t luck that brought Rodgers to the Packers: It wasn’t a need pick as you previously contended but now apparently agree (http://www.packerforum.com/threads/would-you-lose-your-mind.51507/page-7#post-553265). It was a smart pick which displayed Thompson’s discipline in sticking with his board and taking the obvious value available to him, unlike other GMs who actually had a need at QB at the time.

McCarthy was anything but an obvious choice for HC, having never been a HC at any level before coming to Green Bay. So both Rodgers and McCarthy were deliberate, calculated choices by Thompson; neither may be in Green Bay but for Thompson, yet you place him at #3. Also, to compare Thompson replying to a question of whether he’ll stay on through the remainder of his contract by saying, “I don’t look at it like that. It’s important for me to try to do a good job today.”, to Favre who started his retirement dance in 2002 is completely unfair.

To expand on what Poppa San wrote about injuries, Thompson also built a roster in 2010 deep enough to overcome 16 players on IR on its way to a title, a team which also overcame two significant injuries during the Super Bowl. Thompson’s pick for HC in 8 years is 82-45-1 in the regular season, with four division titles and has taken the team to the playoffs six times overall. I don’t have the stats of where Thompson’s win-loss record stands vs. the rest of the league since he’s been GM but I would not be surprised if it ranks in the top 5. In any event, he has continued the "Packers’ perennial contender status" he inherited indirectly from Wolf.

 

[HardRightEdge]

It wasn’t luck that brought Rodgers to the Packers: It wasn’t a need pick as you previously contended but now apparently agree (http://www.packerforum.com/threads/would-you-lose-your-mind.51507/page-7#post-553265). It was a smart pick which displayed Thompson’s discipline in sticking with his board and taking the obvious value available to him, unlike other GMs who actually had a need at QB at the time.

You can imagine my disappointment in reading Brandt's comments to the affect that the Rodgers was not perceived as a need pick despite Favre's age and count-me-in-count-me-out roller coaster. The fact it was not considered a need pick, with the foresight that he'd be the starter before his rookie deal ran out, is a strike against Thompson, not a point in his favor. A first round pick with no plan? Really?

When a GM first takes the job he knows he's going to get 5 years to make his mark unless he turns out to be surprisingly dreadful. Thompson certainly earned his rep in the first few years on the job...McCarthy and Rodgers as you say, even if the latter was without any plan. Let's not forget bringing in Woodson, without whom there would have been no SB championship.

However, the drafts have on balance gotten progressively weaker as the years have gone by, and there's been a notable lack of creativity and imagination in both the draft and free agent markets.

Thompson has gotten too comfortable in my opinion. And you don't need to bestow me the right to it...that's a given.

 

[TJV]

And you don't need to bestow me the right to it...that's a given.

That's why I wrote "of course you're entitled to your opinion" - hardly "bestowing" you a right, just acknowledging it, which I wouldn't have included that except for your snarky, "That's nice."

As to Thompson's pick of Rodgers, IMO the value was too great for an intelligent GM to pass up. Sitting at pick 24 and staring at a player they probably had ranked in the top 5 who plays the most important position in football...

That said, I have expressed the opinion I wish Thompson would have been more active in UFA, as he himself has said the draft isn't for immediate needs, development of youngsters or UFA is.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Thompson’s pick for HC in 8 years is 82-45-1 in the regular season, with four division titles and has taken the team to the playoffs six times overall. I don’t have the stats of where Thompson’s win-loss record stands vs. the rest of the league since he’s been GM but I would not be surprised if it ranks in the top 5. In any event, he has continued the "Packers’ perennial contender status" he inherited indirectly from Wolf.

The Packers have the fifth highest winning percentage in the regular season since Thompson took over. If you take away the 4-12 season in 2005 after he inherited a terrible situation from Sherman the team is third since 2006 after McCarthy was named head coach.

As I said before, I think he´s kind of overrated but it is tough to argue with his success.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

However, the drafts have on balance gotten progressively weaker as the years have gone by, and there's been a notable lack of creativity and imagination in both the draft and free agent markets.

I agree the drafts have gotten weaker after Schneider, McKenzie and Dorsey left the organization, especially in 2011 and 2012. It seems like the 2013 draft was one of the better ones, so there´s hope he´s found his magic again.

 

[JBlood]

I will always be grateful to anybody who strives to make this organisation great.

this side of the Atlantic we spell it with a z. But I agree with your post.

 

[I asked LT to delete my acct]

this side of the Atlantic we spell it with a z. But I agree with your post.

Yes JB, but I`m this side of the Atlantic.....lol

 

[El Guapo]

...when you have an elite QB, you start at 8-8 and work your way up.

So if Rodgers got us to 8-8 each of these years, who then gets the credit for getting us above 8 wins, consistently into the players, and another shiny Lombardi trophy?

It would seem that a mediocre GM's team would still be at 8-8.

I'm confused by the logic

 

[HardRightEdge]

So if Rodgers got us to 8-8 each of these years, who then gets the credit for getting us above 8 wins, consistently into the players, and another shiny Lombardi trophy?

It would seem that a mediocre GM's team would still be at 8-8.

I'm confused by the logic

No, if you play to 8-8 with a QB like Rodgers, you're not mediocre...you suck. The logic is very clear.

 

[PWT]

You can imagine my disappointment in reading Brandt's comments to the affect that the Rodgers was not perceived as a need pick despite Favre's age and count-me-in-count-me-out roller coaster. The fact it was not considered a need pick, with the foresight that he'd be the starter before his rookie deal ran out, is a strike against Thompson, not a point in his favor. A first round pick with no plan? Really?


When a GM first takes the job he knows he's going to get 5 years to make his mark unless he turns out to be surprisingly dreadful. Thompson certainly earned his rep in the first few years on the job...McCarthy and Rodgers as you say, even if the latter was without any plan. Let's not forget bringing in Woodson, without whom there would have been no SB championship.

However, the drafts have on balance gotten progressively weaker as the years have gone by, and there's been a notable lack of creativity and imagination in both the draft and free agent markets.

Thompson has gotten too comfortable in my opinion. And you don't need to bestow me the right to it...that's a given.

HardRightEdge

I don't know what your source was for the comment by Andrew Brandt concerning the drafting of qb Aaron Rodgers on April 23, 2005 .

My source is in the website below my post. It is an article by Andrew Brandt dated May 4, 2014 in MMQB entitled "Inside the War Room". This article clearly indicates that the Packers had long term plans for their First round draft QB Aaron Rodgers , when they drafted him on April 23, 2005.

The long term plans for Aaron Rodgers was for Rodgers become the QB for Packers, when Favre retired. Favre announced his retirement from NFL and Packers on March 4, 2008. On March 10, 2008, the Packers announced that QB Aaron Rodgers was now the starting QB for the Packers.

.QB Aaron Rodger was Brett Favre's Back up for three years between 2005 to 2007. He was trained in Mike McCarthy's QB school during March 2006, 2007 and 2008. In 2008, Rodger was ready to be THE QB of The Packers!!

Source
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/07/nfl-draft-war-rooms/

 

[HardRightEdge]

HardRightEdge

I don't know what your source was for the comment by Andrew Brandt concerning the drafting of qb Aaron Rodgers on April 23, 2005 .

My source is in the website below my post. It is an article by Andrew Brandt dated May 4, 2014 in MMQB entitled "Inside the War Room". This article clearly indicates that the Packers had long term plans for their First round draft QB Aaron Rodgers , when they drafted him on April 23, 2005.

The long term plans for Aaron Rodgers was for Rodgers become the QB for Packers, when Favre retired. Favre announced his retirement from NFL and Packers on March 4, 2008. On March 10, 2008, the Packers announced that QB Aaron Rodgers was now the starting QB for the Packers.

.QB Aaron Rodger was Brett Favre's Back up for three years between 2005 to 2007. He was trained in Mike McCarthy's QB school during March 2006, 2007 and 2008. In 2008, Rodger was ready to be THE QB of The Packers!!

Source
http://mmqb.si.com/2014/05/07/nfl-draft-war-rooms/

Well, that view has the convenience of 20/20 hindsight. Brett Favre continued to play NFL football through the 2010 season...we were fortunate he chose not to do it in Green Bay because Rodgers would have then rotted on the bench right through his rookie contract.

The Packers were just "trusting the board" according to Brandt; just grabbing a good value pick. There's no mention of concern for Favre's age or his making good on his gestures toward retirement. There was no plan for Rodgers...if you believe these stories.

 

[El Guapo]

There was no plan for Rodgers...if you believe these stories.

Well do you?

Ron Wolf consistently drafted QBs looking for backups, never drafting one above the 4th round (Aaron Brooks). He drafted QBs in 1993, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, and 1999. Sherman drafted one quarterback in Craig Nall, spending a 5th on him. With all of the retirement talk out of Favre starting in 2002, the QB cupboard was getting bare. Doug Pederson was on his second stint with Green Bay and not coming back for the 2005 season. All that was left was a will-he-or-won't-he Brett Favre and Craig Nall.

Best player on the board my hiney. Favre was getting old, talking retirement, and while he was still playing at a high level everyone knew that the day would eventually come. With one QB drafted between 2000 and 2004 the Packers needed a new Brunnel/Brooks/Hasselbeck. My guess is that they were planning to draft a QB in the 3rd or 4th round - such as Charlie Frye, Kyle Orton, etc. They obviously weren't planning to draft a QB in the 1st so BPA did come into play to a degree, but only in terms of what round they drafted a QB. It was a position of need that catapulted into the 1st round because you rarely get a chance to draft the consensus #1/#2 pick at #24.

There was a great article in the Journal/Sentinel back in 2003 or 2004. It discussed the best path for replacing a HOF quarterback. There were only four or five examples of successful replacements. The point of the article focused on whether drafting a QB of the future was the best path or waiting until retirement and then trading/finding one in free agency worked best. There was no clear answer except that replacing a HOF quarterback usually did not work out no matter how you tried.

I probably would have tried to find a gem in the middle rounds as well until Favre did retire...but you can't pass up a top rated QB at #24. So yes no plan for Rodgers, but you'd be a fool not to take the guy when it was a position of need. What it did do is send a message to Favre. We all know that a 1st round pick at any position is a ominous warning to the incumbent starter at that position.