Worst OL in the history of Football?

[packrfanfw]

I think the game he was able to produce as a QB was outstanding considering the crappy protection he had. It's early and I hope we get that corrected.

On a side note...I found myself wondering last night.... were the announcers as in love with BF when he was a Packer as they are now? It got almost nauseating listening to the love for BF. Don't get me wrong, he's a great QB, but come on.

 

[Skol guy]

I find it amusing that this Skol guy comes over here and talks trash. I think we should just let him enjoy his QB for this year..he may not be back next year. Then what, get T-Jack to take the Queens to the Super Bowl? Good luck with that one. Even though Favre got the best of us last night, our QB is only in his 2nd year as a starter. A-Rod has a MUCH better upside than Favre does at this point. I loved Favre when his was on OUR team, but Aaron Rodgers is our QB now. We can fix our O-line and defense, but Favre will only get older and will still probably go into the Hall of Fame as a PACKER.

No doubt about that. I would trade an ageing Favre in a minute for Aaron Rodgers and it is a great story but Bretts legacy is what it is and he shouldn't of been forced out IMO. He is huge upgrade from T-jack and sage and who knows how the season ends up. Quarter way through and so far so good.

 

[Skol guy]

I think the game he was able to produce as a QB was outstanding considering the crappy protection he had. It's early and I hope we get that corrected.

On a side note...I found myself wondering last night.... were the announcers as in love with BF when he was a Packer as they are now? It got almost nauseating listening to the love for BF. Don't get me wrong, he's a great QB, but come on.

Yeah it got alittle mushy with AP and A-rod as well with the trio. I have never heard any negative talk about him other than he is Favre's replacement by Favre backers so I think Aaron Rodgers gets alot of respect by most. Jaws seems pretty high on him and that guy knows football

 

[Murgen]

Aaron Rogers will not last the season with this crap *** O-line. 8 sacks!?? God know how many hurries/hits (a zillion). Gimme a break. And Kampman in coverage was a JOKE when he should have been rushing Brett all damn night. That D scheme was idiotic.

I think the next game we'll see a totally different scheme. We better.

 

[PackersRS]

I think the next game we'll see a totally different scheme. We better.

No we won't. I've had that hope after the Bears game last year, 'yeah, this time we'll get back on track!" And I'm tired now. We had a whole offseason o correct our mistakes, but we're actually worse than last year. Same mistakes and less positives.

Bad OL? Check. Worse

Great passing game? Check, but worse than last year.

No running game? Check.

Turnover machine on defense? Check.

Terrible pass rush? Check.

Terrible run stopping? A little better, but check.

Bad special teams? A little better on the kicking game, but worse on the return game.

Stupid, stupid penealties that kill us? CHECK. And don't give me the "youngest team in the league" BS. We're younger by a margin of 1 year app.

No improvement means time for change. We had more than enough time to rebuild.

 

[mike bat]

But College, Spitz, Sitton, Barbe, Wells, you guys suck! It amazes me that an idiot would pay you to play football.

1 question .. do all these guys really suck or is it the coaching and sceme ?? i tend to think its the coaching and sceme ...

 

[Green_Bay_Packers]

I think 20 sacks in 4 games is an NFL record. Houston 2001: 4,75 sacks per game. Packers 2009: 5 sacks per game.
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I'm not saying this is only OL. Our D has a serious lack of pass rush too. But with a better OL, we could at least contend. We'll be lucky if Rodgers can make through this season, and if

Another record we hold

*Leaves topic*

 

[PackersRS]

But College, Spitz, Sitton, Barbe, Wells, you guys suck! It amazes me that an idiot would pay you to play football.

1 question .. do all these guys really suck or is it the coaching and sceme ?? i tend to think its the coaching and sceme ...

There's so much a coach can do or not do. Yeah, had we an elite OL coach, maybe these guys could produce. Not the case.

 

[Murgen]

So when does our OL coach get fired!?? Seriously.

 

[Hauschild]

It isn't the coach - it is the talent level. Not to mention, Brett Favre made the 2006 and 2007 O-line appear MUCH better than it really was.

We knew our line was shaky since 2005. Clifton is OLD, Tausch is OLD and has major injury issues and the GM fails to address this? Or, he feels Colledge - barely adequate as a guard - is the answer at LT???

TT has no clue how to build an offensive line. This is his Achilles Heel, I'm afraid. Getting Tausch and Clifton back will only serve to TT lovers that "everything is ok now".

Be very wary, my friends.

 

[PackersRS]

It isn't the coach - it is the talent level. Not to mention, Brett Favre made the 2006 and 2007 O-line appear MUCH better than it really was.

We knew our line was shaky since 2005. Clifton is OLD, Tausch is OLD and has major injury issues and the GM fails to address this? Or, he feels Colledge - barely adequate as a guard - is the answer at LT???

TT has no clue how to build an offensive line. This is his Achilles Heel, I'm afraid. Getting Tausch and Clifton back will only serve to TT lovers that "everything is ok now".

Be very wary, my friends.

In his defense, Seattle's line was outstanding during his tenure there.

That doesn't exclude the lack of quality both in players and in coaches we have right now. There's just no deny that he had a great OL (though aging) and failed to replace it.

 

[Hauschild]

In his defense, Seattle's line was outstanding during his tenure there.

That doesn't exclude the lack of quality both in players and in coaches we have right now. There's just no deny that he had a great OL (though aging) and failed to replace it.

This is another misnomer about TT. He wasn't the GM in Seattle - he was the Vice President of Operations. I'm sure he provided significant player input, but ultimately was not the GM. As a result, I'm not sure it is accurate to solely credit TT with the team that was built in Seattle.

Realizing we usually had solid O-lines in the Holmgren years while he was with Green Bay, I would be willing to bet that Holmgren had more influence on player selection along that front.

 

[PackersRS]

This is another misnomer about TT. He wasn't the GM in Seattle - he was the Vice President of Operations. I'm sure he provided significant player input, but ultimately was not the GM. As a result, I'm not sure it is accurate to solely credit TT with the team that was built in Seattle.

Realizing we usually had solid O-lines in the Holmgren years while he was with Green Bay, I would be willing to bet that Holmgren had more influence on player selection along that front.

I knew he was not the GM. But I've never thought of it that way.

Of course, your point is mere hypothesis, as neither you nor I know what he chose to do back then, and if his ideas were aproved or not.

I tend to think that it was more a bad decision than bad evaluation. Like I said in another post, the guys we have are suited for ZBS only. But there's noone that can teach them anymore, after Jagodzinski left. And now they're useless.

Anyway, he failed.

 

[longtimefan]

http://www.packerforum.com/packer-fan-forum/3587-looks-like-tt-did-do-most-drafting-seattle.html

Now the links from jsonline are no longer valid, but read it and decide if Ted had any input at all..

Mike Holmgren, then the coach and general manager in Seattle, lured Thompson away from the Packers in January 2000. His title was vice president of football operations, and with rare exception in the drafts from 2000 through 2004 the selections were made by Thompson, according to Seahawks vice president Mike Reinfeldt.

 

[dansz15]

Call me delusional or just hoping but I really think Tauscher's possible return could save the year.

Packers make playoffs = Rodgers MVP run because it is that or nothing at all IMHO.

 

[Hauschild]

http://www.packerforum.com/packer-fan-forum/3587-looks-like-tt-did-do-most-drafting-seattle.html

Now the links from jsonline are no longer valid, but read it and decide if Ted had any input at all..

Well, that certainly appears to be a valid excerpt and if that's the case, Teddy built a pretty sound O-line in Seattle IF he was solely responsible for the O-line picks.

At any rate, that still doesn't explain why TT can't draft O-lineman to save his life in Green Bay. The ZBS comments makes sense and I cannot tell you how much I dislike that scheme because you make life more difficult on yourself because you've got an additional variable to account for when drafting in that the player needs to be ZBS-friendly, so to speak.

I prefer the big bruising types of O-lineman that wear down defenses - kinda like the Cowboys O-line under Jimmy Johnson, or even some of the Packers lines pre-2005.

 

[PackersRS]

Well, that certainly appears to be a valid excerpt and if that's the case, Teddy built a pretty sound O-line in Seattle IF he was solely responsible for the O-line picks.

At any rate, that still doesn't explain why TT can't draft O-lineman to save his life in Green Bay. The ZBS comments makes sense and I cannot tell you how much I dislike that scheme because you make life more difficult on yourself because you've got an additional variable to account for when drafting in that the player needs to be ZBS-friendly, so to speak.

I prefer the big bruising types of O-lineman that wear down defenses - kinda like the Cowboys O-line under Jimmy Johnson, or even some of the Packers lines pre-2005.

ZBS linemen is like 3-4 personel. When noone is doing it, it's easy to find in the draft. But when everybody starts using the scheme, it takes an expert to find good ones.

 

[Hauschild]

ZBS linemen is like 3-4 personel. When noone is doing it, it's easy to find in the draft. But when everybody starts using the scheme, it takes an expert to find good ones.

I'll buy that.

Also, it's a pain IMHO. How tough is it to find tier-1 O-lineman as it is, and then you've got the stones to not only have to find a tier-1 O-lineman, but you've gotta find one that can pull off the ZBS - that's way beyond my tolerance for risk.

 

[PackersRS]

I'll buy that.

Also, it's a pain IMHO. How tough is it to find tier-1 O-lineman as it is, and then you've got the stones to not only have to find a tier-1 O-lineman, but you've gotta find one that can pull off the ZBS - that's way beyond my tolerance for risk.

I don't think it's necessarily harder. ZBS players don't have to be as strong. Which is normally a premium for Olinemen. They just have to have quick feet. Then you teach them how to play. Something Campen can't do. So now we have a bunch of quick feeted linemen that aren't strong enough to play the man blocking scheme, and that don't know how to zone block. :happy0005:

Of cousre, the tackles lack of pass protection is a different issue IMHO. They're just bad.

 

[Hauschild]

I don't think it's necessarily harder. ZBS players don't have to be as strong. Which is normally a premium for Olinemen. They just have to have quick feet. Then you teach them how to play. Something Campen can't do. So now we have a bunch of quick feeted linemen that aren't strong enough to play the man blocking scheme, and that don't know how to zone block. :happy0005:

Of cousre, the tackles lack of pass protection is a different issue IMHO. They're just bad.

Agreed.

Why is it not being addressed? What is the real difference between keeping a scheme that isn't being coached properly and switching schemes?

I've been lambasted since 2005 over our offensive line when I argued that it needed to be addressed. Many told me the pieces were in place and that the only things missing was experience. I stood my ground and argued vehemently and it turns out I was most certainly correct.

I fully understand being proud of our team and supporting it, but I could never understand why so many fans refused to read the writing on the wall. It was such an easy read. Granted, Favre overcame much of the lack of talent with his quick decision-making, but even he struggled in 2005 with the Klemm's and the O'Dwyer's and the Andre Thurman's and Antonio Chatman's.

Again, I'm highly disappointed that TT did such a fine job with the QB and receivers and completely dropped the ball on the O-line. The problem is it is a bit late in his game to begin to rebuild a supposedly completed rebuild.

I think Green Bay should be fine based on the easy schedule, but I'm a bit concerned that a winning season will continue to mask a big problem.

 

[PackersRS]

Agreed.

Why is it not being addressed? What is the real difference between keeping a scheme that isn't being coached properly and switching schemes?

I've been lambasted since 2005 over our offensive line when I argued that it needed to be addressed. Many told me the pieces were in place and that the only things missing was experience. I stood my ground and argued vehemently and it turns out I was most certainly correct.

I fully understand being proud of our team and supporting it, but I could never understand why so many fans refused to read the writing on the wall. It was such an easy read. Granted, Favre overcame much of the lack of talent with his quick decision-making, but even he struggled in 2005 with the Klemm's and the O'Dwyer's and the Andre Thurman's and Antonio Chatman's.

Again, I'm highly disappointed that TT did such a fine job with the QB and receivers and completely dropped the ball on the O-line. The problem is it is a bit late in his game to begin to rebuild a supposedly completed rebuild.

I think Green Bay should be fine based on the easy schedule, but I'm a bit concerned that a winning season will continue to mask a big problem.

In my defense, and others that defended TT, I considered that he was rebuilding, and that it takes a process. I couldn't tell he was doing a bad job, because 1) I'm not qualified to do so while it's being put to practice and 2) Because the way he approached takes time.

Well, now he has had enough time to stabilish a sucessfull team, evidenced by his own ways of drafting. Instead of taking the BPA, he moved up to complement needs we had (DL, OLB). And now it's clear that it didn't work out.

TT shoudn't have been fired before IMHO because he was rebuilding. He doesn't have this luxury anymore.

 

[Hauschild]

In my defense, and others that defended TT, I considered that he was rebuilding, and that it takes a process. I couldn't tell he was doing a bad job, because 1) I'm not qualified to do so while it's being put to practice and 2) Because the way he approached takes time.

Well, now he has had enough time to stabilish a sucessfull team, evidenced by his own ways of drafting. Instead of taking the BPA, he moved up to complement needs we had (DL, OLB). And now it's clear that it didn't work out.

TT shoudn't have been fired before IMHO because he was rebuilding. He doesn't have this luxury anymore.

I won't defend TT on the O-line because he SUCKS AT DRAFTING O-LINEMAN!!! Get this in your memories people!!! And, because he was a "defender" in the NFL, I initially took note that he probably is better and more inclined to draft defense. Thompson drafted Chris McIntosh in Seattle, and it was a poor pick and it was an O-line pick. Couple McIntosh with Colledge, a high second round pick who is adequate at best, and all the other O-lineman to date that are still struggling on the roster or been traded or cut - not a good record.

Here is a list of Teddy Boy's suspect first day draft picks in Seattle: FIRST ROUND pick Chris McIntosh in 2000, SECOND ROUND pick Ike Charlton in 2000, FIRST ROUND pick Koren Robinson in 2001, SECOND ROUND pick Anton Palepoi in 2002, THIRD ROUND pick Kris Richard in 2002, and FIRST ROUND pick Marcus Tubbs in 2004.

I worry about TT and his ability to draft well, but mainly in the O-line department and that's probably only because that is our biggest need. He's proven to suck at drafting DT's, Linebackers and Safeties and Corners for that matter.

 

[PackersRS]

I won't defend TT on the O-line because he SUCKS AT DRAFTING O-LINEMAN!!! Get this in your memories people!!!

Shouting won't make it come true. He sucked at drafting OLineman HERE. And even that's not a fact. As said before, we don't know how those guys, with clear ZBS traits, would fare if they had been coached properly.

The fact that he failed in addressing the OL doesn't mean he doesn't know how to draft Olineman, as evidenced by his time in Seattle. Separated issues, that lead to the same result, yes, but with different ways to fix.
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And hey, you forgot this paragraph from wikipedia:
During Thompson's five seasons in Seattle, the Seahawks advanced to the playoffs twice. Several players Thompson helped acquire through the draft played key roles on these teams. Some of the notable players Thompson selected in his tenure with the Seahawks were running back [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_Alexander"]Shaun Alexander[/ame], kicker Josh Brown, guard Steve Hutchinson, and wide receiver [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darrell_Jackson"]Darrell Jackson[/ame], cornerbacks [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcus_Trufant"]Marcus Trufant[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Lucas"]Ken Lucas[/ame], safeties [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Hamlin"]Ken Hamlin[/ame] and [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Boulware"]Michael Boulware[/ame].

When you do this kind of things, you kinda lose credibility, you know.

 

[longtimefan]

Again, I'm highly disappointed that TT did such a fine job with the QB and receivers and completely dropped the ball on the O-line.

Said perfectly....

 

[Quientus]

I honestly do not think that the offensive line is as bad as alot of people are saying and wanting it to be ...

Point in case: Click Here


The NFL isn't "College Ball" ... no quarterback can or should expect to have more than 2-3 (4 at the most) seconds in the pocket before pressure arrives ... period.

Now I'm not saying that the offensive line doesn't need reinforcements (because it surely and obviously do), however, I'm just saying the line isn't as bad as people think or want it to be ...