Why so many ***** injuries, always?

[FrankRizzo]

Actually it was Jeff Saturday.

Where is he now?

 

[FrankRizzo]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/injuries

Broncos have lot more in total

Pats have more hamstrings with 4

Seattle has 3 with bad hammys

Texans have more.
Niners only list 2 guys on the whole list?

Did you see DEZMAN MOSES is on the list, for the Chiefs?

 

[El Guapo]

7thFloor, I respect your background in the industry but don't see eye-to-eye about the soft tissue stuff. Young guys are notorious for rushing back from soft-tissue injuries. From my own injury experience, I can vouch that it's a heck of a lot easier to gauge when that ankle is healed or the broken hand can take a beating. Knowing when it's "smart" to go back out and push a hamstring, achilles, bicep, etc.....it's best left for the guys with peppered beards and medical degrees. We already see guys coming back too early (like Hayward) and now they are missing significant time. Imagine if Casey wouldn't have tried to play in the Seattle game, my bet is that he would have been shadowing Boldin instead of watching from the sideline, had he rested for another two weeks.

 

[HyponGrey]

Where is he now?

ESPN. He retired after that season at age 369.

 

[7thFloorRA]

7thFloor, I respect your background in the industry but don't see eye-to-eye about the soft tissue stuff. Young guys are notorious for rushing back from soft-tissue injuries. From my own injury experience, I can vouch that it's a heck of a lot easier to gauge when that ankle is healed or the broken hand can take a beating. Knowing when it's "smart" to go back out and push a hamstring, achilles, bicep, etc.....it's best left for the guys with peppered beards and medical degrees. We already see guys coming back too early (like Hayward) and now they are missing significant time. Imagine if Casey wouldn't have tried to play in the Seattle game, my bet is that he would have been shadowing Boldin instead of watching from the sideline, had he rested for another two weeks.

My background deals more with why they are happening in the first place than return to play. There have to have been 10 over the last 2 seasons and that is just not acceptable. That is on Lovat and his staff. 1 or 2 may happen but its been way too many here. I know they take a while to come back from and you really need to be 100 percent. Its some of the other stuff that irritates me about Pepper and the medical staff. Their ACL rehab is about as slow as I have ever heard of in this day and age. They treat it like a 2 season injury. Cushing is back. Looks great too.

 

[FrankRizzo]

Even though they escape Green Bay, like Moses above to Kansas City, they still suffer. Here's Indianapolis Colts' Erik Walden:

Erik Walden (hamstring) and backup linebacker Kavell Conner (ankle) are listed as questionable on the team's injury report.

 

[HyponGrey]

Even though they escape Green Bay, like Moses above to Kansas City, they still suffer. Here's Indianapolis Colts' Erik Walden:

Erik Walden (hamstring) and backup linebacker Kavell Conner (ankle) are listed as questionable on the team's injury report.

Meh, Having Walden on the field is essentially subtracting a player anyway. Terrell Pryor was the leagues #2 leading rusher last week primarily thanks to him.

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

My background deals more with why they are happening in the first place than return to play.

I have heard veteran players say that spending time in the hot tub before practice and games has helped them to avoid some injuries. They say that warming up their muscles that way has been of great benefit. Have you heard of this before ? It sounds reasonable to a layman like myself. What do you think of this method ?

 

[12theTruth]

I wouldn't be opposed to having a team upgrade for Pepper Burress. The Packers are pretty thin due to injury at certain positions. Time has passed him by. It seems the Packers always are always on the top side of teams losing the most players to IR. It can't always be coincidence. Instead of waiting for the law of averages to play out, be proactive and make an attempt to bolster the staff.

 

[HyponGrey]

I wouldn't be opposed to having a team upgrade for Pepper Burress. The Packers are pretty thin due to injury at certain positions. Time has passed him by. It seems the Packers always are always on the top side of teams losing the most players to IR. It can't always be coincidence. Instead of waiting for the law of averages to play out, be proactive and make an attempt to bolster the staff.

A "Fitness Advisor" would be fantastic.

 

[GoPGo]

Its some of the other stuff that irritates me about Pepper and the medical staff. Their ACL rehab is about as slow as I have ever heard of in this day and age.

So, what are the details of their rehab program anyway. I've always wondered. Could you lay out those details for those of us who would like to know?

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

A "Fitness Advisor" would be fantastic.

Nice move HG. I'd give you a positive rating if it had been an original idea.

 

[7thFloorRA]

So, what are the details of their rehab program anyway? I've always wondered. Could you lay out those details for those of us who would like to know?

There is quite a bit to it. I can give you a few parts to the progression. You obviously start with the procedure. You now need to really concentrate on keeping as much range of motion as possible so you will manually move it with the help of a physical therapist. You will also do some isometric muscle strengthening...mainly quad. You must also factor in the rest of the injuries as its usually not a clean ACL only tear like Bulaga. You tear some mesiscus, mcl or lcl along with it. Those are going to limit you initially in your rehab but no more than a month. Then you just keep working on strengthening the leg and getting pre-injury range of motion. Its not like you are in the gym squating though. You slowly build up and incorporate a lot of balance and body weight exercises. You are also waiting for the bone to heal around the graft plugs. You don't want to go and run balls out once you first start to feel good as you could pull these free. Keep doing all of this and gradually build your leg strength. By 6months you should be running straight forward at full speed and you should have your strength back to where it was before. From there on out you reintroduce all full speed cutting and agility and football specific movement. If you set a goal to get back for the next season it usually works out that way. I think Pepper and the medical staff set the goal to be 12 months and it takes that long if not longer. You can get back in 8-9 months....they just don't seem to want to even bother trying. The are dead set in a specific conservative time frame.

 

[7thFloorRA]

Look up the rg3 espn piece they aired a few weeks ago. It should be on youtube. It shows a lot of the rehab and time frame.

 

[GoPGo]

There is quite a bit to it. I can give you a few parts to the progression. You obviously start with the procedure. You now need to really concentrate on keeping as much range of motion as possible so you will manually move it with the help of a physical therapist. You will also do some isometric muscle strengthening...mainly quad. You must also factor in the rest of the injuries as its usually not a clean ACL only tear like Bulaga. You tear some mesiscus, mcl or lcl along with it. Those are going to limit you initially in your rehab but no more than a month. Then you just keep working on strengthening the leg and getting pre-injury range of motion. Its not like you are in the gym squating though. You slowly build up and incorporate a lot of balance and body weight exercises. You are also waiting for the bone to heal around the graft plugs. You don't want to go and run balls out once you first start to feel good as you could pull these free. Keep doing all of this and gradually build your leg strength. By 6months you should be running straight forward at full speed and you should have your strength back to where it was before. From there on out you reintroduce all full speed cutting and agility and football specific movement. If you set a goal to get back for the next season it usually works out that way. I think Pepper and the medical staff set the goal to be 12 months and it takes that long if not longer. You can get back in 8-9 months....they just don't seem to want to even bother trying. The are dead set in a specific conservative time frame.

I was talking about the Packers specific procedures. You said their process was slower than everyone else's, so apparently you know what THEIR process is. Is this theirs or not? How do you know one way or the other? One thing I do know for absolute certainty as a nurse is that everyone heals at a different rate and no two injuries, though classified the same are necessarily alike. So to say you can get these guys all back in 8-9 months is facetious. What might take one guy 8 months to make a full recovery might take another guy 14 months.

 

[7thFloorRA]

2012 ACL injuries that I could quickly find. 17 guys. 13 are active, 1 has played but was cut and 2 are on PUP (1 is a Packer)

RG3- active
Chris Clemons- practicing, not on PUP and could play this week
Heath Miller- activated from PUP and practicing...not sure if he played last week
Scott Chandler- active
Daniel Thomas-active
Stephen Hill- active
Brandon Merriweather-active (you can watch him play tomorrow vs the pack along with RG3)
Ladarious Webb-active
Brian Cushing-active
Bernard Scott-PUP
Darelle Revis-active
Thomas Howard- FA
David Nelson- FA but played all pre season with Browns
Davin Joseph-active (not sure exactly if he had ACL or Patella tear)
Chris Neild-active
Travelle Wharton-active
Worthy-PUP

 

[GoPGo]

2012 ACL injuries that I could quickly find. 17 guys. 13 are active, 1 has played but was cut and 2 are on PUP (1 is a Packer)

RG3- active
Chris Clemons- practicing, not on PUP and could play this week
Heath Miller- activated from PUP and practicing...not sure if he played last week
Scott Chandler- active
Daniel Thomas-active
Stephen Hill- active
Brandon Merriweather-active (you can watch him play tomorrow vs the pack along with RG3)
Ladarious Webb-active
Brian Cushing-active
Bernard Scott-PUP
Darelle Revis-active
Thomas Howard- FA
David Nelson- FA but played all pre season with Browns
Davin Joseph-active (not sure exactly if he had ACL or Patella tear)
Chris Neild-active
Travelle Wharton-active
Worthy-PUP

When did each of these guys suffer their injuries? To what degree was each tear? Which ones were partial tears? Which ones were complete tears? Which ones were avulsions? And obviously not all partial tears are alike. What you have here is not enough to even begin to make any comparison between the rehab regimen of each player.

 

[7thFloorRA]

When did each of these guys suffer their injuries? To what degree was each tear? Which ones were partial tears? Which ones were complete tears? Which ones were avulsions? And obviously not all partial tears are alike. What you have here is not enough to even begin to make any comparison between the rehab regimen of each player.

blah blah blah whatever. You are a waste of my time.

 

[GoPGo]

blah blah blah whatever. You are a waste of my time.

No answer huh? Someone makes legitimate points and you consider it a waste of your time? How does that work for you in life? You really think a complete ACL tear should have the same recovery time as a minor partial tear? Or is that just blah blah blah?

 

[I_am_smoked_cheddar]

Thanks 7thFloorRA, that was most informative. I was trying to look into ways and methods of preventing such injuries. Would you please expand upon such methods such as a hot tub pre-warm up ? What are other effective methods used to prevent sports injuries ? Thanks !

 

[7thFloorRA]

Thanks 7thFloorRA, that was most informative. I was trying to look into ways and methods of preventing such injuries. Would you please expand upon such methods such as a hot tub pre-warm up ? What are other effective methods used to prevent sports injuries ? Thanks !

For years players have gone in and gotten heat via a hot pack that has been soaking in very hot water. Those hot packs only cover one muscle for the most part. It warms up the area and increases blood flow. Teams with new facilities now actually have really large in ground hot tubs in the training room and instead of laying down on a table with a pack or packs on your body you can just jump in the tub. Usually you don't do this unless you are feeling a little tight or are having muscle spasms. These guys have all the time they want to spend at the facility so I'm sure some jump in the tub because it feels good to them to warm up their bodies. Guys that are just plain sore will go between a cold tub and hot tub to try and clear all the crap from their muscles. The theory is you are manipulating blood flow to the area and its almost like you are washing the muscle and clearing some of the toxins and biproducts that cause soreness.

I think the hammy issues is not a lack of preparation or stretching though, I just can't see any way they would cut corners on that stuff. It probably is a much deeper issue that is triggering it. It could be nutritional. In the late mid to late 90's creatine was all the rage as a supplement for athletes and hammys were being blown left and right. When you screw with the water composition of the muscle you become more injury prone. I don't want to think any of the packers would take HGH but when you take that and incorrectly build the muscle you are very prone to soft tissue injury. It could be some plyo exercises they are doing. Some of the weight training may be favoring the quads and making them too dominant. It could be something totally different like the shoes they are wearing today and how those affect the running form and foot contact with the ground. These are all skilled position players and not the big men with the hammys. The skill guys wear weird shoes these days that look more like soccer shoes. Notice how many lis-franc foot injuries there have been in the nfl since these shoes showed up. No one had even heard of a lis-franc 2 years ago and now every team seems to have someone with one.

 

[PFanCan]

2012 ACL injuries that I could quickly find. 17 guys. 13 are active, 1 has played but was cut and 2 are on PUP (1 is a Packer)

RG3- active
Chris Clemons- practicing, not on PUP and could play this week
Heath Miller- activated from PUP and practicing...not sure if he played last week
Scott Chandler- active
Daniel Thomas-active
Stephen Hill- active
Brandon Merriweather-active (you can watch him play tomorrow vs the pack along with RG3)
Ladarious Webb-active
Brian Cushing-active
Bernard Scott-PUP
Darelle Revis-active
Thomas Howard- FA
David Nelson- FA but played all pre season with Browns
Davin Joseph-active (not sure exactly if he had ACL or Patella tear)
Chris Neild-active
Travelle Wharton-active
Worthy-PUP

I, for one, found this interesting. Thanks for compiling it. IMO, Packers need to think about upgrading their staff.

 

[HyponGrey]

Nice move HG. I'd give you a positive rating if it had been an original idea.

That's a legit title, teams have hired them in the past. Kind of the way Ron Wolf is a "Draft Advisor" for the Chargers.

 

[7thFloorRA]

Not that it involves the packers but the niners just lost a d-lineman to a blown knee on a disgusting cut block by the seahawks. That guy that cut him should be suspended as long as he is out. It was a horrible sideways into his knee cut block.

 

[12theTruth]

Did the Packers come out of today's game relatively healthy? I hear Kuhn was injured. Any word on how serious? Outside of Kuhn were the Packers unscathed?