why should I feel any different about our defense?

[Dylan Hoppe]

Once again, I´m not excited about the fact that a fourth year veteran who hasn´t been able to crack the starting lineup so far seems to be the most likely guy capable of replacing either Hawk or Jones. This is a recipe for desaster, just like with the safety position in 2013.

Aaron Rodgers didn't crack the starting lineup for how many years? Lol just kidding.


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[easyk83]

Speaking of DL and OLB we have 4 players who are big enough strong enough and fast enough to play OLB/Elephant end. With Peppers and Jones perhaps we'll have less true OLBs this season.

 

[easyk83]

When you say rook, which one are you talking about? There's about 4 possibilities I think. Or 3.


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Well you never know who might emerge, perhaps Sam Barrington will turn some heads come camp. Perhaps the team does switch Bradford inside and surprised people.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Speaking of DL and OLB we have 4 players who are big enough strong enough and fast enough to play OLB/Elephant end. With Peppers and Jones perhaps we'll have less true OLBs this season.

Matthews is probably the only true OLB seeing significant playing time. That was the plan though going into 2013 as well with Neal and Perry competing for the other starting spot.

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

Well you never know who might emerge, perhaps Sam Barrington will turn some heads come camp. Perhaps the team does switch Bradford inside and surprised people.

Or perhaps they line up clay inside and Bradford outside and send more inside blitzes and work on Bradford's cover skills for TEs and RBs. Hell, none of us have any idea what's going to happen at this position. I mean safety, we can all guess Burnett strong, Dix free. Pretty obvious. But ILB and TE are so up in the air, anything could happen.


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[Deleted member 6794]

Or perhaps they line up clay inside and Bradford outside and send more inside blitzes and work on Bradford's cover skills for TEs and RBs. Hell, none of us have any idea what's going to happen at this position. I mean safety, we can all guess Burnett strong, Dix free. Pretty obvious. But ILB and TE are so up in the air, anything could happen.

The Packers won´t move Matthews to ILB constantly.

 

[rodell330]

When you say rook, which one are you talking about? There's about 4 possibilities I think. Or 3.


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The fella from ASU. I hear rumblings of him staying on the outside? And then some say he's switching to the inside? I actually can see him playing on the inside. He actually reminds me of Nick Barnett when he 1st came in. Barnetts not Patrick Willis but he was steady in all areas and was intense. We need that.

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

The Packers won´t move Matthews to ILB constantly.

Maybe not constantly, but if jones ends up our best option... I'm just saying that it's best to have your best on the field. And if that means Bradford needs to play and jones is a liability but Bradford can't convert, why not?


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[Dylan Hoppe]

The fella from ASU. I hear rumblings of him staying on the outside? And then some say he's switching to the inside? I actually can see him playing on the inside. He actually reminds me of Nick Barnett when he 1st came in. Barnetts not Patrick Willis but he was steady in all areas and was intense. We need that.

That's exactly what I thought. We can agree on something, how bout that rodell?


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[Deleted member 6794]

Maybe not constantly, but if jones ends up our best option... I'm just saying that it's best to have your best on the field. And if that means Bradford needs to play and jones is a liability but Bradford can't convert, why not?

Matthews is by far most valuable when rushing the passer as an OLB. You don´t move your best defensive player around cause you don´t have a better option at another position.

 

[rodell330]

Or perhaps they line up clay inside and Bradford outside and send more inside blitzes and work on Bradford's cover skills for TEs and RBs. Hell, none of us have any idea what's going to happen at this position. I mean safety, we can all guess Burnett strong, Dix free. Pretty obvious. But ILB and TE are so up in the air, anything could happen.


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haHa was taken in the 1st round but there's no guarantee he starts. What if Hyde has gained some weight this off season and has a great camp? Then I think he deserves to be the starting FS. Unless both Hyde and Dix out perform Burnett which is very much a possibility...Then you really have an interesting dilemma because TT just extended Burnett. The best two should start I don't care if Burnett has tenure.

 

[wist43]

This was posted on another Packer site, in which we were discussing the 2-4.

This fellow has no life - so we were all grateful that he took the time to do this for the 1st 49er game, lol...

Note: This fellow is like most Packer fans - Capers can do no wrong, and the 2-4 is a glorious inspiration sent by the Gods.

Quote -

Game #1 GB at SF
Total defensive snaps (not counting the final clock-killing kneel downs)
72, 33 first half
3-4: (and two 4 man goal line fronts): 50 (79-90-97 – or some arrangement of this grouping: 30 (Wilson and Daniels substituted single on the other 20)
2-4: 20 (95-96: 14; 90-79: 3, 90-76: 1, 96-98: 1, 76-98: 1, )
1-5: 2 (95, Datone Jones as single lineman.
Let’s look at the 2-4 alignment plays. (down + distance) (are all 95-96, unless otherwise indicated. Neal typicall on the left, D.Jones on the right)
3+10: stopped QB run for 5 yards, punt
3+6: 10 yard completion to Boldin (81)
1+10 90-79; 25 y pass to Davis (85)
3+2: Run for 4
2+5 27 yard pass to 81
3+7 QB run stopped for 2; punt
3+6 Late hit, 52, offsetting penalties
3+6 TD pass to 81, McMillian in single coverage over middle (like taking candy from a baby!)
2+13 52 sack, -5
3+18 Pass for 12, punt
HALFTIME
2+10; 79-90 (hyde on run blitz from left end), Run for 1 yard
3+9 (actually this is a 1-5; Neal is off the line with Perry and Matthews); 23 yard pass to 81 - (note: very tight coverage byt shields and McMillian, great catch, decent pressure on Kap moving to his right).
1+10; 96-98; pass for 31 to (81) blown coverage on right sideline
3+5, Pass for 1 yard, punt
2+9; 76-98; pass for 36 to (85)
3+9 QB scramble for 15
3+goal from 17 yard line); penalty
3+goal from 22 (1-5 alignment); P for 14, FG
2+13; 90-79; run for 0 yards
3+13; pass incomplete, punt
3+4; pass 15 yards (85)
3+5; run 3 yards

49ers had 9 series in the game; 4 TDs and 1 FG and 5 stops; 4 of the stops were in 2-4 formation.
observations: Only 4 times was the formation used on anything close to an (obvious) running down (all were 3rd and 5 or less; a single third and 2 yielded a four yard run for first down, one other run was stopped, and two passes netted two first downs. The 3-4 was almost exclusively used in run downs. The 2-4 was used on passing downs, many times on 3rd and long and did yield some big plays. Most of the time these completions were against nickel or dime (B. Jones in or out) with only a four man rush. Kap’s 15 yard scramble came against rare 6 man pressure blitz. When the 2-4 was run against, it was very effective; only two successful runs, and one was a scramble.

- End Quote

To that post I replied...

Quote -

According to your post, we allowed 10 first downs, a TD, and a FG - and it would appear the only reason the FG wasn't a TD was b/c of a Niner penalty and a -7 yard play that apparently came from a defensive alignment other than the 2-4/1-5, as they had a 3rd and goal from the 22.

Out of those plays, we gave up 225 yds - which is an average of 10.23 yds/play.

How you can consider giving up 10.23 yds/play a success is beyond me?

And those are your numbers, and take on each play. I'm sure if I broke the plays down, I'd have a far different telling of what was happening on every play.

Cause I got news for ya - giving up 10.23 yds/play, aint a win for the defense.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Furthermore, you say we only used those alignments on 4 obvious running downs - whereas I count 7 such uses on 1st or 2nd down. Regardless of down/distance, 1st and 2nd down are either/or downs; combined with the 4 3rd downs you acknowledge - that's 11 plays in that alignment that were either/or, run/pass downs.

That's half of the plays you posted.

Of those 7 plays on 1st and 2nd down, we gave up 4 first downs, 115 yds, and had 1 sack.

That's an average of 16.43 yds/play on those downs.

- End Quote

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

haHa was taken in the 1st round but there's no guarantee he starts. What if Hyde has gained some weight this off season and has a great camp? Then I think he deserves to be the starting FS. Unless both Hyde and Dix out perform Burnett which is very much a possibility...Then you really have an interesting dilemma because TT just extended Burnett. The best two should start I don't care if Burnett has tenure.

I agree. I love Hyde. I just don't know if he would be a good FS. I think better SS fit.


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[wist43]

Here is the information that another guy provided on the number of 2-4 snaps the Packers played in 2011... none of us could find any such data for 2012 and 2013.

This was posted as a link in a spreadsheet, but I couldn't link it that way, so I just cut and pasted it... no matter what I did with it, I couldn't get it to display in columns without dedicating the rest of my afternoon to it, lol...

So if you want to see what a specific team played, you just have to do some parsing... sorry it aint pretty.
As you can see not so easily, the Packers played the 2-4 62% of the time in 2011. Arizona, Washington and SF were the only other teams above 40%.

NFL average was 10%

Pkg 3-4-4 4-3-4 5-2-4 2-4-5 3-3-5 4-2-5 1-4-6 2-3-6 3-2-6 4-1-6 1-3-7 Other
ARZ 49% 0% 0% 45% 0% 0% 0% 2% 0% 0% 0% 3%
ATL 0% 44% 0% 0% 6% 49% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 1%
BLT 6% 36% 0% 8% 21% 22% 0% 1% 1% 0% 0% 5%
BUF 2% 26% 7% 1% 9% 3% 0% 5% 21% 21% 0% 5%
CAR 0% 51% 1% 0% 0% 38% 0% 0% 0% 8% 0% 2%
CHI 0% 47% 0% 0% 0% 53% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0%
CIN 0% 51% 0% 0% 0% 46% 0% 0% 1% 1% 0% 1%
CLV 0% 54% 0% 0% 11% 29% 0% 0% 1% 2% 0% 3%
DAL 34% 1% 0% 18% 3% 0% 8% 29% 0% 0% 1% 7%
DEN 0% 38% 0% 0% 44% 5% 0% 6% 3% 0% 0% 4%
DET 0% 48% 0% 0% 0% 45% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 7%
GB 27% 0% 0% 62% 0% 0% 2% 5% 0% 0% 0% 5%
HST 57% 0% 0% 2% 0% 0% 0% 38% 0% 0% 0% 4%
IND 0% 61% 0% 0% 1% 36% 0% 0% 0% 0% 0% 1%
JAX 0% 45% 1% 0% 1% 34% 0% 0% 4% 12% 0% 4%
KC 55% 0% 0% 9% 0% 0% 1% 32% 0% 0% 1% 3%
MIA 30% 0% 0% 29% 27% 0% 5% 6% 0% 0% 0% 3%
MIN 0% 42% 0% 0% 0% 54% 0% 0% 0% 3% 0% 1%
NE 12% 29% 0% 3% 33% 12% 0% 2% 5% 1% 0% 3%
NO 4% 44% 0% 0% 36% 10% 0% 0% 2% 2% 0% 3%
NYG 0% 22% 0% 0% 22% 46% 0% 0% 5% 3% 0% 3%
NYJ 37% 0% 0% 3% 19% 0% 6% 7% 4% 0% 16% 7%
OAK 0% 37% 3% 1% 18% 4% 0% 1% 30% 4% 0% 3%
PHI 0% 41% 0% 0% 0% 46% 0% 0% 0% 10% 0% 3%
PIT 58% 0% 0% 26% 0% 0% 0% 15% 0% 0% 0% 1%
SD 50% 0% 0% 37% 6% 0% 0% 3% 0% 0% 0% 3%
SEA 0% 56% 0% 0% 0% 35% 0% 0% 4% 1% 0% 4%
SF 45% 0% 0% 42% 0% 0% 0% 11% 0% 0% 0% 1%
SL 0% 56% 0% 0% 0% 15% 0% 0% 0% 27% 0% 2%
TB 0% 52% 0% 0% 3% 29% 0% 0% 9% 6% 0% 2%
TEN 0% 44% 0% 0% 0% 42% 0% 0% 11% 1% 0% 2%
WAS 53% 0% 0% 44% 0% 0% 1% 1% 0% 0% 0% 2%
NFL 16% 29% 0% 10% 9% 20% 1% 5% 3% 3% 1% 3%

 

[longtimefan]

What about the previous three seasons he said the D would do better? The injury argument is Bleh..people are so quick to throw that argument into play but never bring up how injury depleted the team was that won the SB when we talk about injuries being the reason they are suspect on that side of the ball. Amazing smh

Was clay hurt during the SB run?

Was culken jenkins hurt?

Woodson??

We had a real good base of players in the SB run.. Tell me who took the place of those theee in the defense this year??? No one is the answer..

That is and was a huge difference


I said it then, letting Jenkins go was a huge mistake. We havent found a replacement, and ones there arent as good

Didnt think I had to spell that out for you

Amazing

Smh

 

[Dylan Hoppe]

Was clay hurt during the SB run?

Was culken jenkins hurt?

Woodson??

We had a real good base of players in the SB run.. Tell me who took the place of those theee in the defense this year??? No one is the answer..

That is and was a huge difference


I said it then, letting Jenkins go was a huge mistake. We havent found a replacement, and ones there arent as good

Didnt think I had to spell that out for you

Amazing

Smh

Well if you take a look at what Jenkins did after he left.... I'd say we let go of him at a pretty decent time. I know that's beside the point if your argument but I'm just saying.


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[longtimefan]

Well if you take a look at what Jenkins did after he left.... I'd say we let go of him at a pretty decent time. I know that's beside the point if your argument but I'm just saying.


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Not concerned about what he did when he left..My point was the def during the SB run had some big time playmakers and we could afford to have 3rd stringers step in for injured players..

SB run we had BJ playing lights out...Since then he has played like his lights have burnt out..

We didnt have that luxury since the SB...When we lost players on def there werent any real play makers to help pick up any slack

What about the previous three seasons he said the D would do better? The injury argument is Bleh..people are so quick to throw that argument into play but never bring up how injury depleted the team was that won the SB when we talk about injuries being the reason they are suspect on that side of the ball. Amazing smh

You wanted an answer and I gave you a few..But you didnt like it, and shook your head..

Not sure if MM was as believable in the past when he said the def would play better..

Part of me wants to see this def improve just so you can stop shaking your head, and have you shut up, but you will still find something wrong--season hasnt started and you shook your head at answers people are giving you..

Sometimes you need to just relax and see what happens and not be so negative..I know you hate hearing people say that...But more then a few of us have told you that...

It is your right, but coaches and people in charge forgot more about this game then you or I will ever know..Trust in them and then see what happens..

 

[brandon2348]

Was clay hurt during the SB run?

Was culken jenkins hurt?

Woodson??

We had a real good base of players in the SB run.. Tell me who took the place of those theee in the defense this year??? No one is the answer..

That is and was a huge difference


I said it then, letting Jenkins go was a huge mistake. We havent found a replacement, and ones there arent as good

Didnt think I had to spell that out for you

Amazing

Smh

Don't forget about Nick Collins too.

 

[longtimefan]

Don't forget about Nick Collins too.

Exactly my point..

Williams played lights out in the playoffs too..He hasnt played that well since...Maybe did start to play a lot better from the Dallas game on this past year

 

[Carl]

Don't forget about Nick Collins too.

And Raji was playing much better.

 

[Carl]

injuries--huge issue last year

MM stating the def will be better this year

my main two reasons why it will be improved this year

Agreed. Injuries were huge, especially often Shields went down, Datone ended up at OLB, and a hobbling Mulumba was trying to catch Kaepernick.

Also, there's something different about McCarthy saying the D will be better this year compared to other years. It seems as if years of frustration have built up and he's ready to unleash it all with an all out attack on improving the defense. He had the same fire when talking about improving the running game last season. I realize it's the not best of evidence, but there could be something there.

 

[rodell330]

I hope people realize that when I'm being "negative" and then they say I hope they prove you wrong and shut you up that's also what I'm hoping. I would love nothing more then for the defense to prove me wrong and dominate. I promise my feelings won't be hurt Freakin calm down with that. bTw who cares what MM says? Yea he probably does know something we don't know but just because he says the defense will be better were suppose to just believe him? Yea ok .

 

[Carl]

I don't see Hawk being replaced. To me he's solid, not great, but solid who wouldn't catch so much heat if he wasn't drafted so high.

Jones on the other hand, needs to pick it up. He has played much better in the past before he resigned so he has shown he can do more. Wasn't an all star any means, but also wasn't a big weak spot.

 

[longtimefan]

Also, there's something different about McCarthy saying the D will be better this year compared to other years. It seems as if years of frustration have built up and he's ready to unleash it all with an all out attack on improving the defense. He had the same fire when talking about improving the running game last season. I realize it's the not best of evidence, but there could be something there.

Well said

 

[longtimefan]

I hope people realize that when I'm being "negative" and then they say I hope they prove you wrong and shut you up that's also what I'm hoping. I would love nothing more then for the defense to prove me wrong and dominate. I promise my feelings won't be hurt Freakin calm down with that. bTw who cares what MM says? Yea he probably does know something we don't know but just because he says the defense will be better were suppose to just believe him? Yea ok .

Calm down? coming from the guy that shakes his head with every post, telling us to calm down?

MM, or Dom, or Ted doesnt look here, so you arent changing anyones mind on anything at all..Being negative here really does one thing...Makes you look bitter and you are never happy...

I knew someone that was always negative in his job..We joked if we gave him a 100$ bill he would complain it wasnt new enough..

Who cares what MM says? A lot of Packer fans care..

I think you should care what he says...If he were to say, our def was fine last year, you would head up the lynch mob to hang him.


#1) Do you think he is happy/satisfied with how the def has played last few years? I dont think he is/was

#2) So if that is true, why shouldnt we believe him when he says the def will be better..He is he head coach and his livelihood depends on his team succeeding...

When he said the running game would be better in 2013, didnt you have the feeling he meant it? That is how I feel bout him saying the def will be better in 2014