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why should I feel any different about our defense?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by rodell330, May 12, 2014.

  1. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Somebody sell me on this defense. Besides having everyone healthy what's going to make this defense formidable so the offense doesn't have to score a ton of points to win? I loved the addition of Peppers and I hope they don't screw with his production by trying to make him play outside lb. That experiment hasnt worked here.

    I preferred Ward over Haha but what can we expect from him? As a rook? Who's going to start in the middle withAj Hawk? How about the starter at LOLB? Telling me it'll be a Perry/Neal combo will just depress me.
     
  2. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Dude, are you ever positive or happy? Every friggin post of yours is this depressing, woe is me, our front office sucks, our team sucks, we're not gonna do anything right nonsense. Might be time for a vacation.
     
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  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Mini camps arent going yet

    preseason didnt start yet

    the season didnt start yet..

    Stop stressing over things that you or anyone have no clue what this def will look like

    http://www.packers.com/news-and-eve...-defense/f598c76e-a0d5-412e-93e2-aab82f132e67

    He was very right about the running game last year
     
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  4. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    You dont see him post in chat on game days lol
     
  5. brandon2348

    brandon2348 GO PACK GO!

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    First of all Peppers will be used in a variety of ways — he'll rush from an end spot when the Packers are in base defense, slide inside in nickel, and he can play up as a 6-foot-7 linebacker, rerouting tight ends off the line, covering in short areas or rushing the passer. He is going to play what Willie McGinest played at New England known by some as the elephant position. Some people might say Peppers is to old for this transition. I point people to John Abraham who at 36 switched to a similar role for The Cards and ended up going back to the pro bowl last year. Peppers is cut from the correct cloth for this position and I expect huge dividends.

    Clay Matthews for the first time will have a similar presence now rushing from the other side which means he will get more one on one match ups. You now have two potential "hall of famer's" rushing from both sides. That alone is going to make the defense better.

    The defensive line is getting deep and loaded with 1-3 round talent with players that should be taking the next step in development. It is also getting a little faster. Raji is going back to where he was last productive at NT. Capers will be able to rotate multiple fronts which should make a big difference and help production. Especially late in games and on passing downs.

    Ha Ha Clinton Dix I expect to have some struggles from time to time as he develops but overall I see him being a big improvement in the back end and will allow Burnett to go back to SS where he was more productive. Sam Shield is an ascending "cover corner". Traymon is solid at holding his own on the other side as a "boundary corner". Casey Hayward is back in the "slot" and was 3rd in voting as DROY in 2012. Hyde can line up now on TE's and replace a middle linebacker on passing downs.

    Hawk, as much I would like to see an upgrade there had maybe his best season last year and I think he can give us one more. If he plays as well as he did last year he'll do. The other linebacker spot is the big X factor. Right now it's hard to predict what will really happen but I have to believe they have some ideas that don't include Brad Jones. At least I hope so. Time will tell. Nick Perry needs to stay healthy and get better otherwise there is now another option with Carl Bradford who before it's all said and done I believe will find his way on the field.

    Overall I see added talent and depth which creates more versatility for Capers and the defense. With all the new components I see a much better pass rush and a more stable back end. Remember this, We played a hot San Francisco offense in the playoffs with a banged up Packer defense and held them to 23 points. With all that we were only one play from winning that game.
     
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  6. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Just returned from dominican Republic a couple weeks ago:) I think I'm good;) if you think every post is negative then you're clearly not reading all of my post. That was a serious question by the way. I didn't say bash Teddy or the front office bro lol calm the heck down. In fact I gave the guy props for bringing in Peppers didn't i? The purpose of the thread is to get peoples opinions about what they expect to see on defense but you took it to another level. relax Leonidas haha
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2014
  7. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Good post. This is all I was looking for good Lord! Some insight? Honest opinion and thoughts about the D and where it stands at this point. Some of the people on here are some sensitive folks !!
     
  8. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Come on guys, cut rodell some slack here. He just asked a question.
     
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  9. PWT

    PWT Cheesehead

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    Rodell posted;
    Somebody sell me on this defense. Besides having everyone healthy what's going to make this defense formidable so the offense doesn't have to score a ton of points to win? I loved the addition of Peppers and I hope they don't screw with his production by trying to make him play outside lb. That experiment hasnt worked here.

    I preferred Ward over Haha but what can we expect from him? As a rook? Who's going to start in the middle withAj Hawk? How about the starter at LOLB? Telling me it'll be a Perry/Neal combo will just depress me."

    Rodell

    I don't understand why you posted this type of topic on this website in the middle of May , if you don't feel very negative about The Green Bay Packer management and the Packer player roster.

    Rookie camp, OTA's, Mini Camp, Training camp with Pre season games, and Packer roster in September followed by regular season games and play off games will give you all the answers to any questions you have about the 2014 Packers

    You have followed the Green Bay Packers and the NFL since 1990 . In 2014 ,You should realize that in this era of competitive balance in the NFL with the CBA, salary cap, free agency and injuries, just about anything can happen in the NFL from one season to the next one . That is what make the NFL ( Professional Football) #1 sport in the U.S.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
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  10. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I agree with nearly all of the stuff you posted above, aside of the fact that Hawk had one of his best seasons. He had more production than in previous years with five sacks and being involved in his first turnover plays since 2010, but he was horrible defending the run.
     
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  11. Vrill

    Vrill Cheesehead

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    I fully expect our D to be ranked middle of the pack this coming year. That will be good enough to win 12-13 games with our offense. A D ranked around 15 is all we need.
     
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  12. wist43

    wist43 Cheesehead

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    Rodell's concern and post is perfectly logical and legitimate... most fans are Prozac addicts - guy breaks his leg?? 'yeah, but his other leg is all-world'!!!

    Truth is - we had one of the worst defenses in the league last year, despite the fact that we had high-round, highly paid talent at every level of the defense.

    If there is a silver lining in how this roster is shaping up, it is that we don't have any legimate 2-gap/double team eating DL on the roster. Which hopefully translates to less 2-4, and more 3 and 4 man lines. It isn't good to not have any 2-gap DL in a 3-4 defense necessarily - but we really haven't run a 3-4 for the past 3 years, we've been running a 2-4 with Raji and Pickett tasked with taking on 5 offensive linemen. The results have been disasterous - but of course that doesn't stop Capers, he do what he do.

    The mess in the back end is another deal... but that's why they drafted Clinton-Dix. We'll see on him. Our safeties had exactly zero picks last year - how is that even possible??

    The mess at ILB is still a mess... you can get by with Hawk, but a good defense will always be looking to replace him - not the case in GB; Brad Jones shouldn't be starting at all - but of course there he is too... combined, Hawk and Jones probably make up the worst set of starting ILB's in the league.

    We were 25th in yds allowed last year, middle of the pack in turnovers, and produced 45 sacks (which is a decent number).
     
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  13. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    I don´t have the time to watch every single game from last season and analyse every single snap by the defense. But taking a look at the snaps played by DL in 2013 there´s no evidence playing with three DL improved the run defense at all. Here´s what I found:

    Aside from the regular season opener in San Francisco, when the main goal was to contain Kaepernick and stop the run, the defense allowed 640 rushing yards in the three games the DL combined to play the most snaps (that´s 213.3 yards per game!!!). In comparison, during the four games the DL combined for the fewest snaps the defense allowed 482 rushing yards (120.5 yards per game).

    I know I´m simplifying the issue by looking at it this way, I still think it´s an interesting angle to your point of view and doesn´t indicate that playing more snaps with three DL would solve all of our problems.
     
  14. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    I dont believe it's to early to speak on this at all. The draft is over and free agency has already been upon us.

    It's the same thing the last what? 3yrs/4yrs with the defense guys. Ranked in the mid to low 20's even 30's in production...or lack thereof. I'm not asking for us to be a top 5 defense or even top 10 but 15 would be respectable especially with the talent we have on offense and having the best player in football playing QB for us. People outside of Green Bay fans would consider us legit SB contenders vs a team that will probably win the North (which isn't guaranteed) and getting in the playoffs. If you listen to these analyst they don't even mention GB being a SB threat really anymore since Seattle and San Fran has come along. The talk is constantly about one of those two teams representing the NFC and you know why? Because they both play stout and stingy defense. I think Kap and Wilson are just average qbs who were fortunate enough to land in spots where the run game and defense are legit. Neither guy is all that great, but game managers to me if I'm being honest. But leave it to the GB D to make Kap look all pro every freakin time we play them smh.

    We have a star qb and a legit running game now but the defense is still a disappointment that's holding us back. That's why GB isn't the class of the NFC anymore.

    People get offended when I say anything about Teddy but he has missed on defense guys that's not something I'm making up just to bash the guy come on now. There are guys he didn't either draft or sign vi free agency making plays for someone else's team..mainly guys he passed on in the draft. On another note the Peppers signing will work in our favor and was a great pickup. On another note we are still thin in the middle. As much as I like AJ Hawk when he's your best ilb something is off...he finally had a takeaway last yr after what? 3 yrs? That's not good for a guy who makes what he does, was drafted where he was, and has been here as long as he has. Gotta get more production from the middle spot period. I don't care if it's him or some guy I've never heard of but it has to happen for it to work. The takeaways have to be there so that Rodgers doesn't have so much pressure to do it all. Call me "negative" or whatever else but Rodgers is 30 with a poor defense and Kap and Wilson are in their mid 20's with stellar defenses...think about it. In order for us to get to where we want to go it'll probably have to be through if not 1 but both those teams and our window is much shorter. I'd hate to see Rodgers only get 1 chance to play in a sB yet alone 1 freakin NFC title game. That would be a total waste. Defense needs to get it together so I'm not talking about this next yr...again.
     
  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    injuries--huge issue last year

    MM stating the def will be better this year

    my main two reasons why it will be improved this year
     
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  16. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Well here's a shot. First, even last season the defense looked to be rounding into form right up until Rodgers' injury. Assuming this unit can stay healthy it does boast a number of effective pass rushers in Clay Matthews Mike Daniels, Perry and Neal. Perry, I'll remind some of you, was flashing spectacular pass rush ability right up until an offensive lineman fell on his foot and broke it. Then you have Datone Jones who showed promise as a pass rusher in limited reps and of course the addition of Julius Peppers.

    At CB we're very solid with Shields and a resurgent Tramon Williams starting. Heyward House and Hyde provide quality depth.

    At safety again we should be solid at the least between Burnett and Dix with Hyde providing an intriguing third option and Jennings providing another serviceable backup.

    To me ILB sums up Ted Thompsons evolving attitude towards the position, the running backs of the defense. To Mr. Thompson ILB is an overvalued position group, where even average players can excel as long as they're surrounded by enough talent. AJ Hawk is an above average player to me, better than many fans acknowledge. Next to him it's all question marks between Lattimore the oft injured Jones and Sam Barrington.

    As for our Dline, Daniels and Peppers should be effective. Then you have the mercurial BJ Raji, the try hard Josh Boyd and of course Latroy Guion. Im guessing Worthy will probably be the odd man out.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2014
  17. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    What about the previous three seasons he said the D would do better? The injury argument is Bleh..people are so quick to throw that argument into play but never bring up how injury depleted the team was that won the SB when we talk about injuries being the reason they are suspect on that side of the ball. Amazing smh
     
  18. Dylan Hoppe

    Dylan Hoppe Cheesehead

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    He shyed away from the run. Letting the backs come to him. Lattimore, honestly, played the run better than hawk at most times when given the chance.


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  19. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Lattimore isn´t the answer the ILB though either.
     
  20. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

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    Hard to say, seems like it takes a couple years for guys to switch from the outside to the inside. Unless Im mistaken wasn't last season lattimore's first year as a converted ILB?
     
  21. Dylan Hoppe

    Dylan Hoppe Cheesehead

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    Probably not. But if were choosing out of jones Lattimore and hawk, I'm choosing Lattimore from day 1 with hawk and having Darren Perry teach him coverage on a 1 on 1 environment all training camp and preseason. I think the outcome would be the best ILB on the roster unless an UDFA turns out to be a jewel.


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  22. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Yes, it was. Nevertheless watching the tape vs. the Bears in week 17 he isn´t any better than Hawk or Jones. Guaranteed.
     
  23. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

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    Nope but it's better than Brad injury prone Jones which isn't saying much. It's time to put some new blood in the middle and u don't care if it's a rook as long as he's not a liability and can make some plays.
     
  24. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

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    Once again, I´m not excited about the fact that a fourth year veteran who hasn´t been able to crack the starting lineup so far seems to be the most likely guy capable of replacing either Hawk or Jones. This is a recipe for desaster, just like with the safety position in 2013.
     
  25. Dylan Hoppe

    Dylan Hoppe Cheesehead

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    When you say rook, which one are you talking about? There's about 4 possibilities I think. Or 3.


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