Why do the Packers struggle to beat good teams?

[Oski]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/03/s...ackers-aaron-rodgers.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

So your evidence that's he improved greatly under maccarthy over the years is posting an article that says he was embarrassing the defense as a rookie? Ok

 

[longtimefan]

So your evidence that's he improved greatly under maccarthy over the years is posting an article that says he was embarrassing the defense as a rookie? Ok

I suggest looking at what I quoted

 

[longtimefan]

As you once said

Sorry. I was assuming you had some common sense. My apologies. Apparently I have to spell everything out to you.

 

[Oski]

I suggest looking at what I quoted

no where do I see he was lost his first couple of years and got it together after many years of McCarthy handholding. Instead i see philbin saying they knew the guy on the bench was better than the pro bowl qbs they saw and that he was shredding the d in practice as a rookie. Can you understand why I would consider that evidence he didn't develop a lot because of McCarthy?

 

[Oski]

As you once said

Common sense would dictate that if the guy was ripping the d early that the foot drills and lowing his throwing motion hat happened after that weren't the reasons why he was succeeding.

 

[NOMOFO]

Where's your "analysis" about how rodgers developed greatly under McCarthy? All I've gotten are him slightly tweaking his throwing motion. You want to claim I'm not analytical, yet your entire argument seems to be "what everyone knows."

Is that a joke?! You argument has been obliterated with dozens of posts stating facts!

You just step up with one idiotic statement after another and suggest it's "proof" you are correct. Safe to say you're not going to change your mind. I just wish you knew how more and more idiotic your comments are getting on this.

Like LTF said...just stop. Let it go.

 

[Oski]

Is that a joke?! You argument has been obliterated with dozens of posts stating facts!

You just step up with one idiotic statement after another and suggest it's "proof" you are correct. Safe to say you're not going to change your mind. I just wish you knew how more and more idiotic your comments are getting on this.

Like LTF said...just stop. Let it go.

You mean the posts posting articles saying he was ripping the D before McCarthy?

Not sure why you have to go towards personal attacks. Grow up.

 

[Oski]

From the article posted:

By Week 11 of his rookie year, Rodgers said an assistant coach notified him that “the head man doesn’t appreciate all the Saturday no-look passes because you’re making the defense look bad.”

Coach Mike McCarthy arrived in Rodgers’s second season, and he recognized the talent that spent Sundays holding clipboards

Now I'm supposed to believe this is clear evidence that Mccarthy is responsible for Rodgers being good?

 

[Deleted member 6794]

You mean the posts posting articles saying he was ripping the D before McCarthy?

I don´t care what happens during practice. He was 9-of-16 for 65 yards, an interception and two lost fumbles in 2005 before McCarthy arrived. I know it´s a small simple size but hardly MVP numbers.

 

[Oski]

I don´t care what happens during practice. He was 9-of-16 for 65 yards, an interception and two lost fumbles in 2005 before McCarthy arrived. I know it´s a small simple size but hardly MVP numbers.

A rookie, getting backup snaps in backup situations on a very limited basis. Not sure if you can read much into that. If he started a couple of games, I could see it. I'd say how he was playing in practice day in and day out is far more relevant. And no one puts up mvp numbers as a rookie.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I'd say how he was playing in practice day in and day out is far more relevant. And no one puts up mvp numbers as a rookie.

I don´t read too much into media reports from practice with the beat writers having limited access to it.

 

[NOMOFO]

You mean the posts posting articles saying he was ripping the D before McCarthy?

Not sure why you have to go towards personal attacks. Grow up.

They are not personal attacks. They are just direct comments about what you are posting.

When you make idiotic comments and then dismiss every fact presented to you, only to present even more idiotic comments, you'll want to start reconsidering not only your opinion but the way you are attempting to "prove" it.

I was attempting to help you out by suggesting you drop it. ...just let it go. I think that's sound advise on this one.

 

[Oski]

They are not personal attacks. They are just direct comments about what you are posting.

When you make idiotic comments and then dismiss every fact presented to you, only to present even more idiotic comments, you'll want to start reconsidering not only your opinion but the way you are attempting to "prove" it.

I was attempting to help you out by suggesting you drop it. ...just let it go. I think that's sound advise on this one.

You want to help me out by calling me an idiot?

A real humanitarian.

 

[NOMOFO]

I don´t read too much into media reports from practice with the beat writers having limited access to it.

nor should you or anyone. just think about all the reports over the years about all these amazing training camp players and all the amazing things they were doing in practice. if I had $1 for every one that was a bust I'd be rich. I'll never forget the talk about the amazing Terrell Buckley and the plays he was making in practices....Javon Walker ...every year there's a different one and often times the results are not close.

 

[NOMOFO]

You want to help me out by calling me an idiot?

A real humanitarian.

As usual, you can't comprehend something. Did I call you an idiot? No, I said you were making idiotic arguments.

...but if you keep this debate up about Rodgers being Rodgers thanks to the Rodgers that was always Rodgers...I'm not sure what to call you.

 

[TJV]

I don´t care what happens during practice. He was 9-of-16 for 65 yards, an interception and two lost fumbles in 2005 before McCarthy arrived. I know it´s a small simple size but hardly MVP numbers.

To expand on that point, this is from a Pete Dougherty column:

Aaron Rodgers’ first extended regular-season playing time in the NFL was a disaster. … Rodgers played quarterback for the last play of the third quarter and the entire fourth quarter of the Packers’ 48-3 loss, four full series in all. Three of those series ended in Rodgers turnovers and the other in a punt. … At the time, the Packers still thought Rodgers was a promising player but had little idea whether he’d pan out. He’d shown the intelligence and arm talent to think he could win games by making good reads and accurate throws. But there would be no knowing until he was at the helm for several games or more.

As for him becoming more than a capable player, there weren’t yet signs he had the intangibles or “It” factor that separate upper-tier NFL quarterbacks from the rest. … Still, to suggest that general manager Ted Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy knew they had Favre’s long-term successor by the end of that night would be overstatement. They selected Brian Brohm in the second round of the ’08 draft the following spring as a hedge against Rodgers’ shaky durability (ACL surgery in college, a broken foot in ’06 and pulled hamstring late in ’07) and fallback if Rodgers didn’t pan out a year or two down the road.

http://archive.packersnews.com/arti...trous-2005-Ravens-outing-an-important-failure

 

[Oski]

nor should you or anyone. just think about all the reports over the years about all these amazing training camp players and all the amazing things they were doing in practice. if I had $1 for every one that was a bust I'd be rich. I'll never forget the talk about the amazing Terrell Buckley and the plays he was making in practices....Javon Walker ...every year there's a different one and often times the results are not close.

Surely if Rodgers wasn't good until McCarthy came along and developed him we'd see SOME article over the years telling us that no? Instead we see philbin and McCarthy telling us they all knew they had a star on the bench.

 

[Oski]

As usual, you can't comprehend something. Did I call you an idiot? No, I said you were making idiotic arguments.

...but if you keep this debate up about Rodgers being Rodgers thanks to the Rodgers that was always Rodgers...I'm not sure what to call you.

why is it so hard to believe that a great player could succeed anywhere? this is hardly a new and amazing concept.

 

[Oski]

To expand on that point, this is from a Pete Dougherty column:
http://archive.packersnews.com/arti...trous-2005-Ravens-outing-an-important-failure

now that's a good example. thank you

though he didn't have acl surgery in college. I don't know where this durability comment came from.

 

[NOMOFO]

Thanks Jack. In case you didn't read the piece Oski, here is a direct quote from Aaron Rodgers after that game in 2005:

“I remember sitting on the plane thinking I’ve got a long way to go,” Rodgers said Friday, thinking back on that night. “It didn’t damage my confidence. I was obviously disappointed. But it was a good perspective moment for me.”

lol...but... ya...carry on. Don't let Aaron's own words get in the way with your crazy nonsensical thoughts on the subject.

 

[TJV]

now that's a good example. thank you

From the article:
Aaron Rodgers’ first extended regular-season playing time in the NFL was a disaster. … Rodgers played quarterback for the last play of the third quarter and the entire fourth quarter of the Packers’ 48-3 loss, four full series in all. Three of those series ended in Rodgers turnovers and the other in a punt. … At the time, the Packers still thought Rodgers was a promising player but had little idea whether he’d pan out. He’d shown the intelligence and arm talent to think he could win games by making good reads and accurate throws. But there would be no knowing until he was at the helm for several games or more.

As for him becoming more than a capable player, there weren’t yet signs he had the intangibles or “It” factor that separate upper-tier NFL quarterbacks from the rest. … Still, to suggest that general manager Ted Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy knew they had Favre’s long-term successor by the end of that night would be overstatement. They selected Brian Brohm in the second round of the ’08 draft the following spring as a hedge against Rodgers’ shaky durability (ACL surgery in college, a broken foot in ’06 and pulled hamstring late in ’07) and fallback if Rodgers didn’t pan out a year or two down the road.

 

[Oski]

From the article:
Aaron Rodgers’ first extended regular-season playing time in the NFL was a disaster. … Rodgers played quarterback for the last play of the third quarter and the entire fourth quarter of the Packers’ 48-3 loss, four full series in all. Three of those series ended in Rodgers turnovers and the other in a punt. … At the time, the Packers still thought Rodgers was a promising player but had little idea whether he’d pan out. He’d shown the intelligence and arm talent to think he could win games by making good reads and accurate throws. But there would be no knowing until he was at the helm for several games or more.

As for him becoming more than a capable player, there weren’t yet signs he had the intangibles or “It” factor that separate upper-tier NFL quarterbacks from the rest. … Still, to suggest that general manager Ted Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy knew they had Favre’s long-term successor by the end of that night would be overstatement. They selected Brian Brohm in the second round of the ’08 draft the following spring as a hedge against Rodgers’ shaky durability (ACL surgery in college, a broken foot in ’06 and pulled hamstring late in ’07) and fallback if Rodgers didn’t pan out a year or two down the road.

sounds like they weren't sold till 2008:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/p...packers-on-aaron-rodgers-who-wasnt-even-there

understandable you want to see someone do it in real games before you are a believer.

 

[longtimefan]

no where do I see he was lost his first couple of years and got it together after many years of McCarthy handholding. Instead i see philbin saying they knew the guy on the bench was better than the pro bowl qbs they saw and that he was shredding the d in practice as a rookie. Can you understand why I would consider that evidence he didn't develop a lot because of McCarthy?

I see you like to twist my words


I said nothing of beating guys in practice

Please read what I quoted from that article, then try to understand what MM is quoted as saying.

It has to do with how Rodgers was when MM got here, and how he inproved

Fyi, please stop the twisting of others words.. It isnt going to help anything but get posters ticked off

 

[Oski]

I see you like to twist my words


I said nothing of beating guys in practice

Please read what I quoted from that article, then try to understand what MM is quoted as saying.

It has to do with how Rodgers was when MM got here, and how he inproved

Fyi, please stop the twisting of others words.. It isnt going to help anything but get posters ticked off

I was talking about the article. Not what you posted.

 

[longtimefan]

I was talking about the article. Not what you posted.

You quoted me and said

no where do I see he was lost his first couple of years and got it together after many years of McCarthy handholding. Instead i see philbin saying they knew the guy on the bench was better than the pro bowl qbs they saw and that he was shredding the d in practice as a rookie. Can you understand why I would consider that evidence he didn't develop a lot because of McCarthy?

You have a hard time following

I never once said practice-you brought it up

Third time now


Read my initial quotes from that story and how MM compared Rodgers


If you wont or cant acknowledge MM explains Rodgers is different then I am done