Why did we change our game plan?

[IronMan]

I'm not blaming anybody here but I'm not prepared to say this is how MM had it diagrammed going in either.

From MM press conference
http://www.packers.com/news/releases/2007/11/29/3/
(Were you trying to take shots early?)
Yes, we were. We wanted to play aggressive on offense. We felt that we had some opportunities in personnel coverage, our perimeter against their perimeter. We knew pass protection was going to be a challenge and I thought Dallas did a good job with their pass rush.

 

[spardo62]

I'm not blaming anybody here but I'm not prepared to say this is how MM had it diagrammed going in either.

From MM press conference
http://www.packers.com/news/releases/2007/11/29/3/
(Were you trying to take shots early?)
Yes, we were. We wanted to play aggressive on offense. We felt that we had some opportunities in personnel coverage, our perimeter against their perimeter. We knew pass protection was going to be a challenge and I thought Dallas did a good job with their pass rush.

Yes they probably wanted to take shots deep, but it still comes down to what you see on the field. If Favre saw 2 deep S, it might be a good idea to check into something else. If the line would have protected, maybe Favre would have had more than 2 seconds to get rid of the ball. With 5 WR there had to be at least 1 short option on every play that could have been taken rather than forcing the called deep shot. After Favre getting rocked early the Coaching staff should have shifted gears a little quicker.

All I am saying is they studied their opponent and put in a gameplan that they felt would expose certain weaknesses. The reason it did not work is more complex than it was a bad game plan. QB decision making, OL protection, etc. all worked in concert to make the gameplan look bad.

 

[Aytumious]

I don't care what the gameplan was, Favre still has to read double coverage deep and find the underneath guys, which replays showed were open numerous times. Even if the deep guy was the first read, you don't throw it up into great double coverage and pray when guys are running open underneath routes. A good example is the flea flicker when GJ was wideopen on a deep cross and Favre just caught the ball and winged it even though he had time to read the D.

As for the pressure, those are exactly the times when you don't just chuck it deep. You read the blitz if there is one and hit a guy on a quick hitter.

 

[Fuzznuts]

Were the long shots down the field dictated by the game plan, or was Favre making a decision to go deep even though receivers were open underneath the coverage

I think you hit it on the head. It was there underneath according to replays and the announcers. Sometimes favre just goes into GOD mode where he wants to throw deep regardless of the situation. I just hope he plays it smart in the playoffs and we go all the way!

And you were in on the gameplan right? The coaching staff went away from the quick routes. How do I know? Easy, most of those throws were out of stretch play action. You are not going to hit a quick slant out of that set.

Unfortunately the O-Line broke down so Brett didn't have much time to find the open guy. It happens. Thats what happens when you get pressure on the QB. Something the GB Defense couldn't do with thier front 4. Romo had 6-7 seconds to throw the ball. That's where the coaching staff should start bringing the blitz, they failed to do so.

Look at the difference. Brett was in a hurry, the Cowboys had good safety play over the top. Romo wasn't in a hurry and our Safeties are very undisciplined. That's football. The Cowboys are the better team.

Finally.

A man who knows football on this forum.

Imagine that!

 

[Fuzznuts]

Horrible game planning. McCarthy has been spot on for this entire year but not this week and I think he knows it too. I think he knows that if the next time they play they'll need to do the short slants and ins and maybe hit a deep one as the game goes on. One thing the short passes do is take up a lot of time which means Dallas' offense isn't on the field.

I don't think you can put all this on McCarthy when Brett has that much leeway on the field. Brett took it upon himself to throw several deep balls and on some of the replays I saw other receivers wide open.

Brett missed some reads out there last night including the one where he got hurt. He normally sees that coming and puts the ball right over the rushers head for a completion. He missed that guy coming totally.

MAYBE the game plan changed somewhat with Rodgers in there but my gut says he just chose the shorter routes vs. Brett who, for whatever reason, wanted to take it deep way more than he has all year. MM's not one to change the plan because of the player. I think he had Rodgers executing the same game plan he went in with.

I'm not blaming anybody here but I'm not prepared to say this is how MM had it diagrammed going in either.

And you know that...how? Because you're psychic?

Or are just making **** up?

 

[porky88]

Horrible game planning. McCarthy has been spot on for this entire year but not this week and I think he knows it too. I think he knows that if the next time they play they'll need to do the short slants and ins and maybe hit a deep one as the game goes on. One thing the short passes do is take up a lot of time which means Dallas' offense isn't on the field.

I don't think you can put all this on McCarthy when Brett has that much leeway on the field. Brett took it upon himself to throw several deep balls and on some of the replays I saw other receivers wide open.

Brett missed some reads out there last night including the one where he got hurt. He normally sees that coming and puts the ball right over the rushers head for a completion. He missed that guy coming totally.

MAYBE the game plan changed somewhat with Rodgers in there but my gut says he just chose the shorter routes vs. Brett who, for whatever reason, wanted to take it deep way more than he has all year. MM's not one to change the plan because of the player. I think he had Rodgers executing the same game plan he went in with.

I'm not blaming anybody here but I'm not prepared to say this is how MM had it diagrammed going in either.

I heard on ESPN that the game plan from the Packers was to attack. Is it part of Favre's fault for making the wrong decision? Of course it is but this is a 50-50 thing here. They're no sides. It's all on the team. The coaches didn't game plan well and the players didn't play well.

 

[tromadz]

Were the long shots down the field dictated by the game plan, or was Favre making a decision to go deep even though receivers were open underneath the coverage

I think you hit it on the head. It was there underneath according to replays and the announcers. Sometimes favre just goes into GOD mode where he wants to throw deep regardless of the situation. I just hope he plays it smart in the playoffs and we go all the way!

And you were in on the gameplan right? The coaching staff went away from the quick routes. How do I know? Easy, most of those throws were out of stretch play action. You are not going to hit a quick slant out of that set.

Unfortunately the O-Line broke down so Brett didn't have much time to find the open guy. It happens. Thats what happens when you get pressure on the QB. Something the GB Defense couldn't do with thier front 4. Romo had 6-7 seconds to throw the ball. That's where the coaching staff should start bringing the blitz, they failed to do so.

Look at the difference. Brett was in a hurry, the Cowboys had good safety play over the top. Romo wasn't in a hurry and our Safeties are very undisciplined. That's football. The Cowboys are the better team.

Finally.

A man who knows football on this forum.

Imagine that!

So when someone agrees with you, they 'know football' and if they disagree with you, they 'just don't get this game.'

Awesome.

Don't ever leave this forum, Fuzzy. I need to laugh daily(good for the soul) and you provide that for me.

 

[IronMan]

Horrible game planning. McCarthy has been spot on for this entire year but not this week and I think he knows it too. I think he knows that if the next time they play they'll need to do the short slants and ins and maybe hit a deep one as the game goes on. One thing the short passes do is take up a lot of time which means Dallas' offense isn't on the field.

I don't think you can put all this on McCarthy when Brett has that much leeway on the field. Brett took it upon himself to throw several deep balls and on some of the replays I saw other receivers wide open.

Brett missed some reads out there last night including the one where he got hurt. He normally sees that coming and puts the ball right over the rushers head for a completion. He missed that guy coming totally.

MAYBE the game plan changed somewhat with Rodgers in there but my gut says he just chose the shorter routes vs. Brett who, for whatever reason, wanted to take it deep way more than he has all year. MM's not one to change the plan because of the player. I think he had Rodgers executing the same game plan he went in with.

I'm not blaming anybody here but I'm not prepared to say this is how MM had it diagrammed going in either.

I heard on ESPN that the game plan from the Packers was to attack. Is it part of Favre's fault for making the wrong decision? Of course it is but this is a 50-50 thing here. They're no sides. It's all on the team. The coaches didn't game plan well and the players didn't play well.

So its not all Brett's fault? Imagine that.

 

[Fuzznuts]

Part of the problem was that Favre was being harrassed and couldn't step into some of his throws.

So you have to credit the Dallas D-line for pressuring Favre, and criticize our O-Line for not pass blocking well and protecting the QB!

 

[4thand26]

Could it be that MM is a genius. He showed nothing to the Cowboys last nite. Different game plan - throwing deep, play action- , he orchestrated pulling Favre out. Dallas has nothing to build upon in the NFC title game. Pure genius...or at least it could end up working out that way.

 

[Heelntoe]

I do not think the game plan was to keep heaving the ball down the field. I think Brett kinda lost his head and was determined to hit a big play. MM's comment implies they were looking for matchups and opportunities, but Brett was trying to force a big play early instead of waiting for it to happen.

With the early blitzing he should have been throwing short to force Dal to abondon the blitz and go to coverage; then he'd have opportunity to drop back and find open receivers deep or check down if they're covered. That's just my opinion tho; I'm really just a football dummy.

 

[KGB94SACKEM]

Were the long shots down the field dictated by the game plan, or was Favre making a decision to go deep even though receivers were open underneath the coverage

I think you hit it on the head. It was there underneath according to replays and the announcers. Sometimes favre just goes into GOD mode where he wants to throw deep regardless of the situation. I just hope he plays it smart in the playoffs and we go all the way!

And you were in on the gameplan right? The coaching staff went away from the quick routes. How do I know? Easy, most of those throws were out of stretch play action. You are not going to hit a quick slant out of that set.

Unfortunately the O-Line broke down so Brett didn't have much time to find the open guy. It happens. Thats what happens when you get pressure on the QB. Something the GB Defense couldn't do with thier front 4. Romo had 6-7 seconds to throw the ball. That's where the coaching staff should start bringing the blitz, they failed to do so.

Look at the difference. Brett was in a hurry, the Cowboys had good safety play over the top. Romo wasn't in a hurry and our Safeties are very undisciplined. That's football. The Cowboys are the better team.

Finally.

A man who knows football on this forum.

Imagine that!

So when someone agrees with you, they 'know football' and if they disagree with you, they 'just don't get this game.'

Awesome.

Don't ever leave this forum, Fuzzy. I need to laugh daily(good for the soul) and you provide that for me.

Your assessment made no sense. I tried explaining it to you. Did you even click on the link Midwest supplied?

The deep shots were a result of gameplanning. I'm not saying Brett should have thrown the ball but it deviated from the gameplan that had worked all year. I'm relatively sure if Brett would have had the time he would have found the right guy.

Out of that stretch play action Bretts first read was the deep ball. MM basically stated the same thing. It's designed to make the CB and S bite and throw the ball deep over the top. Brett executed the play action and looked at his first read, the deep weakside GO route. By that time he had half of the Cowboys Def. front bearing down on him. Kind of hard to check it down in that situation. His choice was air it out or take the sack. To me we were screwed either way. If we punt to them they throws 2 40 yard bombs while our secondary plays with thier ******** and they score. If they intercept it our they throw 1 40 yard bomb while our secondary plays with thier ******** and they score.

The Defense couldn't stop them, thats why we lost, period

 

[Fuzznuts]

Were the long shots down the field dictated by the game plan, or was Favre making a decision to go deep even though receivers were open underneath the coverage

I think you hit it on the head. It was there underneath according to replays and the announcers. Sometimes favre just goes into GOD mode where he wants to throw deep regardless of the situation. I just hope he plays it smart in the playoffs and we go all the way!

And you were in on the gameplan right? The coaching staff went away from the quick routes. How do I know? Easy, most of those throws were out of stretch play action. You are not going to hit a quick slant out of that set.

Unfortunately the O-Line broke down so Brett didn't have much time to find the open guy. It happens. Thats what happens when you get pressure on the QB. Something the GB Defense couldn't do with thier front 4. Romo had 6-7 seconds to throw the ball. That's where the coaching staff should start bringing the blitz, they failed to do so.

Look at the difference. Brett was in a hurry, the Cowboys had good safety play over the top. Romo wasn't in a hurry and our Safeties are very undisciplined. That's football. The Cowboys are the better team.

Finally.

A man who knows football on this forum.

Imagine that!

So when someone agrees with you, they 'know football' and if they disagree with you, they 'just don't get this game.'

Awesome.

Don't ever leave this forum, Fuzzy. I need to laugh daily(good for the soul) and you provide that for me.

Yeah.

Some people look at the WHOLE game of football, and are not just in the "blame Favre first crowd".

What KGBSACKEM said is correct.

They game planned to go long on the Cowboys early, and it didn't work.

Sometimes I just wish Brett would take the sacks instead of trying to make the play (but he's trying to win a game, isn't he? ), and he's probably thinking, "What would Tromadz and others say"? "I can't have him blame the O-line for this game, or the defense. He always has to pin it on me."

I wish he would take the sacks. Then you would see how ****** the Offensive Line was really playing, especially your boy Colledge, whom I haven't heard you defending in awhile.

There's alot that goes on in a football game. Game planning, execution, etc. The Cowboys outplayed the Packers and disrupted their game plan. I have no doubt that if Favre hadn't gotten hurt, he and MM would have adjusted the game plan, and it would have been a different game.

But go ahead and laugh if you want with your buddies.

I'll just be logical and stick to the game of football and analyze what's really going on out there in reality, and not post based on some fantasy or bias that some of you posters may have out there.

 

[axelred13]

We looked like a desperate team. We didn't look like a team who thought they were good enough to beat the Cowboys with our normal gameplan.

I thought the flee-flicker was a bad call, however I really liked the onsides kick attempt. Grant was almost non existant in the 2nd half which is strange due to ARod being in there.

 

[Bertram]

McCarthy obviously wanted to score fast and open up a lead to stun the Cowboys, making it very difficult for them to rebound later in the game. I thought before the game that such a strategy could be applied and be successful against the Cowboys. It wasn't any attempt by Favre to match Romo in big plays.

However, the strategy didn't work due to bad reads by Favre. Instead of getting the ball to the uncovered man underneath, Favre tried to force it deep even in double coverage. The Cowboys exploited Favre's will to go deep as long as he was in the game, they left open the short alternatives and double covered receivers going on deep routes. I don't think it was intentional by the Cowboys to start with as they probably expected Favre to continue using the slant, but as the game proceeded they picked our gameplan apart, easily disposing of the Packers.

I actually think that this game would have been a blowout victory for the Cowboys if Favre hadn't gone out injured. Rodgers brought the Packers back to the ground and utillized the strategy that got us to 10 - 1.

If our defense had held up better we would have won this game, when you score 27 points on offense, it's not the offense that is the problem. There is absolutely no excuse for giving up 37 points, this game was all on our defense.

We didn't manage to get pressure on Romo, and he was picking our secondary apart. We were giving up several big plays on every drive, Romo had a lot of time back in the pocket. In my opinion, it wasn't all on the secondary, it makes the job very difficult for the secondary when the QB has all day to throw, he will find an open man eventually.

We were giving up big plays to several players, not only Terrell Owens, if it only had been Terrell Owens I wouldn't have worried that much because he's a great receiver. We gave up big plays to Crayton and Witten among others.

It all comes down to the battle in the trenches, our defensive line didn't manage to pressure Romo, that's the key to this game. Of course or secondary did struggle, but it would have held up much better if Romo had been pressured. I can't understand why we didn't send Bigby, Poppinga and Hawk on blitzes to pressure Romo, we didn't have anything to lose by doing so because he was already picking us apart.

Blame the defensive line for this one.

 

[Romosexual]

IMO, we were trying to hard to take the Momentum of the game. We wanted to hit them with a couple of knock out shots.. and I think the Dallas safeties played better than expected.. Hamlin played a whale of a game and took away alot of the deep ball.

I was impressed with Hamlin and the Dallas secondary. but I agree, we came out to vertical, but I would rather be too aggressive than passive.

There may be another shot at these guys... we need to learn from this game.

Better than expected? Well I guess you wouldn't expect it if you hadn't seen a Dallas game this year. I don't think the Packers even watched tape of the '07 Cowboys. They've been defending the deep ball well all year. I think that Farve got caught up in the hype of the game and was trying to outplay Romo. He was forcing things downfield and it was probably a blessing that he got hurt and Rodgers got to play.

 

[Fuzznuts]

McCarthy obviously wanted to score fast and open up a lead to stun the Cowboys, making it very difficult for them to rebound later in the game. I thought before the game that such a strategy could be applied and be successful against the Cowboys. It wasn't any attempt by Favre to match Romo in big plays.

However, the strategy didn't work due to bad reads by Favre. Instead of getting the ball to the uncovered man underneath, Favre tried to force it deep even in double coverage. The Cowboys exploited Favre's will to go deep as long as he was in the game, they left open the short alternatives and double covered receivers going on deep routes. I don't think it was intentional by the Cowboys to start with as they probably expected Favre to continue using the slant, but as the game proceeded they picked our gameplan apart, easily disposing of the Packers.

I actually think that this game would have been a blowout victory for the Cowboys if Favre hadn't gone out injured. Rodgers brought the Packers back to the ground and utillized the strategy that got us to 10 - 1.

If our defense had held up better we would have won this game, when you score 27 points on offense, it's not the offense that is the problem. There is absolutely no excuse for giving up 37 points, this game was all on our defense.

I love all of you Pop-Psychologists and Pop-football coaches...

What makes you think that think that they wouldn't have adjusted their game plan as the game went along?

Oh yeah..the mindless Favre is in there, that's why?

The were'n't playing well because the offensive line sucked in the 1st qtr, (especially Colledge), and it disrupted their timing for going deep, and Brett's ability to step into his throws. In other words, Dallas outplayed us.

But yeah, let's blame it ALL on Favre.

It's just easier that way, and makes us feel better. :lol:

Couldn't have been the game plan, now could it? They wanted t to take some shots downfield early that were disrupted by Dallas. Naaawww?

Let's stick with the QB blame game. It's so much easier and fun.

Let's start Rodgers next game because he supposedly "outplayed" Favre for a few quarters.

You people make me laugh.. :lol:

 

[Bertram]

If you read what I wrote I did indeed blame the gameplan for the poor start to the game.

However, we did manage to put up 27 points, if you're offense puts up 27 points you should win the game. Therefore I am pointing the finger at our defense and our d-line, but you conveniently cut that part out.

 

[DGB454]

McCarthy obviously wanted to score fast and open up a lead to stun the Cowboys, making it very difficult for them to rebound later in the game. I thought before the game that such a strategy could be applied and be successful against the Cowboys. It wasn't any attempt by Favre to match Romo in big plays.

However, the strategy didn't work due to bad reads by Favre. Instead of getting the ball to the uncovered man underneath, Favre tried to force it deep even in double coverage. The Cowboys exploited Favre's will to go deep as long as he was in the game, they left open the short alternatives and double covered receivers going on deep routes. I don't think it was intentional by the Cowboys to start with as they probably expected Favre to continue using the slant, but as the game proceeded they picked our gameplan apart, easily disposing of the Packers.

I actually think that this game would have been a blowout victory for the Cowboys if Favre hadn't gone out injured. Rodgers brought the Packers back to the ground and utillized the strategy that got us to 10 - 1.

If our defense had held up better we would have won this game, when you score 27 points on offense, it's not the offense that is the problem. There is absolutely no excuse for giving up 37 points, this game was all on our defense.

I love all of you Pop-Psychologists and Pop-football coaches...

What makes you think that think that they wouldn't have adjusted their game plan as the game went along?

Oh yeah..the mindless Favre is in there, that's why?

The were'n't playing well because the offensive line sucked in the 1st qtr, (especially Colledge), and it disrupted their timing for going deep, and Brett's ability to step into his throws. In other words, Dallas outplayed us.

But yeah, let's blame it ALL on Favre.

It's just easier that way, and makes us feel better. :lol:

Couldn't have been the game plan, now could it? They wanted t to take some shots downfield early that were disrupted by Dallas. Naaawww?

Let's stick with the QB blame game. It's so much easier and fun.

Let's start Rodgers next game because he supposedly "outplayed" Favre for a few quarters.

You people make me laugh.. :lol:

I think the O line was a major contributer to the poor performance
against the Cows early in the game. If the half time adjustments would
have happened earlier I'm sure Favre would have been fine and
may have lead us to a win. Once Rogers came in I think we went back to
a more basic Green Bay game plan. Short passes and runs after the catch.

That being said I do believe Favre should shoulder some of the responsibility also. He is a vetran
QB and should know better than to throw into that kind of coverage. Granted he barely had time
to look down the field and step into his throws. So why did he attempt it given those conditions?
It would have been better for him to go down and protect the ball. (IMO)

I think Favre should start every game. He gives us our best chance to
win. He just needs to play a little wiser when he is under that much
Pressure.

 

[Fuzznuts]

I agree.

But at the same time, I think that given a little more time by the pathetic O-Line play, Favre may have been able to put a little more on those throws and maybe hit one or two of those home run balls.

Sometimes, it's a game of inches. You try some things, and if they don't work, you adjust. It was only the 1st quarter, for cripe's sake.

What bothers me is that some people here see Rodgers come in after the adjustments, and after Colledge is benched and think that he should be starting over Favre, or that he could have done the same thing Favre has done all year (10-1), if only he had the chance to start, like it's all just about "running the system", and has nothing to do with the ability of Favre.

Believe me, there are a number of YOUNG people who think that out there.

To me, that kind of thinking is serious misguided...or mild retarded, or something...

 

[Bertram]

It is mildly retarded to cut and paste other comments to fit your argument. I did not blame Favre for the loss, I merely stated that Aaron Rodgers came in and instantly did a better job than Favre had been able to do. Then I went on to blame the D-line and our defense for the loss.

When you put up 27 points on offense, there is nothing wrong with your offense. If you still lose, there is something wrong with your defense.

You must indeed be nuts, as your nickname suggests, and you create a lot of fuzz for nothing.

 

[Zombieslayer]

If our defense had held up better we would have won this game, when you score 27 points on offense, it's not the offense that is the problem. There is absolutely no excuse for giving up 37 points, this game was all on our defense.

We didn't manage to get pressure on Romo, and he was picking our secondary apart. We were giving up several big plays on every drive, Romo had a lot of time back in the pocket. In my opinion, it wasn't all on the secondary, it makes the job very difficult for the secondary when the QB has all day to throw, he will find an open man eventually.

We were giving up big plays to several players, not only Terrell Owens, if it only had been Terrell Owens I wouldn't have worried that much because he's a great receiver. We gave up big plays to Crayton and Witten among others.

It all comes down to the battle in the trenches, our defensive line didn't manage to pressure Romo, that's the key to this game. Of course or secondary did struggle, but it would have held up much better if Romo had been pressured. I can't understand why we didn't send Bigby, Poppinga and Hawk on blitzes to pressure Romo, we didn't have anything to lose by doing so because he was already picking us apart.

Blame the defensive line for this one.

Agreed. The problem isn't necessarily our O, it's more our D. 37 points is not acceptable.

 

[Fuzznuts]

It is mildly retarded to cut and paste other comments to fit your argument. I did not blame Favre for the loss, I merely stated that Aaron Rodgers came in and instantly did a better job than Favre had been able to do. Then I went on to blame the D-line and our defense for the loss.

When you put up 27 points on offense, there is nothing wrong with your offense. If you still lose, there is something wrong with your defense.

You must indeed be nuts, as your nickname suggests, and you create a lot of fuzz for nothing.

Dude, you don't even know what you're saying, and I like it!

It makes me laugh. You're like many posters here.

The point WAS and IS that the GAME PLAN and POOR BLOCKING by the O-LINE contributed to the poor play of Brett Favre. Again, they were trying to take DEEP SHOTS against the Dallas defense EARLY in order to get an AD-VAN-TAGE... This was MCCARTHY'S DECISION, but the players did not EXECUTE IT very well. Thereby causing the QB to make mistakes.

By the time AARON RODGERS got IN THERE, the PACKERS changed the GAME PLAN, and the bad blocking (COLLEDGE), and Dallas changed their game plan (NO BLITZING), thereby ALLOWING AARON RODGERS to have SOME SUCCESS.

But if all comes down to....

FAVRE = BAD....RODGERS = GOOD for you, then God Bless you.

I tried to use small words and explain it slowly so you could understand.
But you Rodgers guys...I just don't know...