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Why Brett doesn't deserve to have his number retired
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<blockquote data-quote="toolkien" data-source="post: 449246" data-attributes="member: 4637"><p>If one man is to be given singular credit for Packer successes the last 20 years it would be Bob Harlan. I take these attributed quotes to heart. The whole ball got rolling with the structural changes Harlan instituted which enticed Wolf to come back for the GM job after having turned it down in 1987. Without Wolf we have neither Favre, nor Holmgren who molded the QB. So much of the Packer issues for so many years started at the very top. The Packers were just so backward and nobody wanted to play for, coach (Perles), or GM (Wolf's first refusal) the team. Somehow in two years as President, from 1989-1991, he changed enough of the negatives to entice Wolf, and his then 30 year pedigree, to come to Green Bay. And while I can grasp what Harlan is saying, and he is such a great man as a person, that he probably just wants the hatchets buried once and for all. </p><p> </p><p>And while I agree with what he says, it only goes so far. There WAS replacement value for Favre in Mark Brunell. There were seven coaches from the 90's who went off to other teams with varying success, but three took teams to Super Bowls, including Holmgren who is one of only five men to have taken two franchises to Super Bowls. In more depth, the "Packers West" in Seattle had Holmgren, Hasselbeck (former back up), and 14 Ted Thompson draft picks and made it to a Super Bowl. In the last 20 years, only 11 QB's have had >4,500 attempts, three of whom came through the Packers - Brunell, Hasselbeck, and Favre. And how did Favre fare without all the front office, coaching, and support player personnel? It looks as if a lot of those other mid-90's folk did better without Favre than he did without them.</p><p> </p><p>And this post-Favre Packer Era is at the tipping point of displacing the mid-90's as the best since Lombardi (albeit a distant second for both cases). AND IT WAS FAVRE WHO WORKED SO DILIGENTLY AGAINST IT EVEN HAPPENING due to his selfishness. Can anyone imagine a Sherman led 2007 team with Rivera done and gone, Wahle at the end of his career, the selfish Randy Moss trying to rehabilitate his career burning a year of the Packers' progress only to bolt? THESE were all the things that weren't done "right" that pissed Favre off so much and led to The Divorce. Once the likely failure emerged, all of Favre's itches would be scratched, both precious linemen gone, Moss bolting for greener pastures, and we'd have Sherman's bubble butt to finally jettison. In other words, we'd be the Minnesota Vikings right now AT BEST. </p><p> </p><p>So, what Favre DID supply in the 90's, given all the other talent at all levels, does not offset his six years of attacks upon, bad mouthing, and asinine de facto GM'ing that was denied. If he'd have gotten his way, the Packers would have continued on their slide out of relevancy, but he didn't, trashed the team, and tried to get revenge. It's a lose/lose situation he presented the organization, and there simply was too much OTHER 90's talent that has to be marginalized to bolster Favre. In other words, his 90's contribution was too PARTIAL to offset the damage he supplied the last six years ALL BY HIMSELF. Even if a man I respect as much as Harlan says otherwise. It's a tough choice. Harlan is about the only other guy in Packer history that deserves to have his statue out front next to Lambeau and Lombardi. But I have to disagree with him.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="toolkien, post: 449246, member: 4637"] If one man is to be given singular credit for Packer successes the last 20 years it would be Bob Harlan. I take these attributed quotes to heart. The whole ball got rolling with the structural changes Harlan instituted which enticed Wolf to come back for the GM job after having turned it down in 1987. Without Wolf we have neither Favre, nor Holmgren who molded the QB. So much of the Packer issues for so many years started at the very top. The Packers were just so backward and nobody wanted to play for, coach (Perles), or GM (Wolf's first refusal) the team. Somehow in two years as President, from 1989-1991, he changed enough of the negatives to entice Wolf, and his then 30 year pedigree, to come to Green Bay. And while I can grasp what Harlan is saying, and he is such a great man as a person, that he probably just wants the hatchets buried once and for all. And while I agree with what he says, it only goes so far. There WAS replacement value for Favre in Mark Brunell. There were seven coaches from the 90's who went off to other teams with varying success, but three took teams to Super Bowls, including Holmgren who is one of only five men to have taken two franchises to Super Bowls. In more depth, the "Packers West" in Seattle had Holmgren, Hasselbeck (former back up), and 14 Ted Thompson draft picks and made it to a Super Bowl. In the last 20 years, only 11 QB's have had >4,500 attempts, three of whom came through the Packers - Brunell, Hasselbeck, and Favre. And how did Favre fare without all the front office, coaching, and support player personnel? It looks as if a lot of those other mid-90's folk did better without Favre than he did without them. And this post-Favre Packer Era is at the tipping point of displacing the mid-90's as the best since Lombardi (albeit a distant second for both cases). AND IT WAS FAVRE WHO WORKED SO DILIGENTLY AGAINST IT EVEN HAPPENING due to his selfishness. Can anyone imagine a Sherman led 2007 team with Rivera done and gone, Wahle at the end of his career, the selfish Randy Moss trying to rehabilitate his career burning a year of the Packers' progress only to bolt? THESE were all the things that weren't done "right" that pissed Favre off so much and led to The Divorce. Once the likely failure emerged, all of Favre's itches would be scratched, both precious linemen gone, Moss bolting for greener pastures, and we'd have Sherman's bubble butt to finally jettison. In other words, we'd be the Minnesota Vikings right now AT BEST. So, what Favre DID supply in the 90's, given all the other talent at all levels, does not offset his six years of attacks upon, bad mouthing, and asinine de facto GM'ing that was denied. If he'd have gotten his way, the Packers would have continued on their slide out of relevancy, but he didn't, trashed the team, and tried to get revenge. It's a lose/lose situation he presented the organization, and there simply was too much OTHER 90's talent that has to be marginalized to bolster Favre. In other words, his 90's contribution was too PARTIAL to offset the damage he supplied the last six years ALL BY HIMSELF. Even if a man I respect as much as Harlan says otherwise. It's a tough choice. Harlan is about the only other guy in Packer history that deserves to have his statue out front next to Lambeau and Lombardi. But I have to disagree with him. [/QUOTE]
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