1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
  2. Big Announcement Coming for 2015 Football Season!!

    Be on the look out for a big Packer Forum announcement when the schedule is released. Full details coming soon...

Why are opposing WRs so wide open?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by bubba, Dec 7, 2013.

  1. bubba

    bubba Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2013
    Messages:
    90
    Ratings:
    +39
    This is becoming habitual! Every week there are receivers catching passes with no Packer with in 10 yards of them. This is basic defense is it not. When a receiver runs out for a pass someone needs to cover them. When I was young back on the block playing sandlot football I would say Jimmy you cover him Billy you cover him and I will cover this guy. This is so simple. What part of this concept do these players or Capers not understand? I am so sick of watching this week in and week out. My goodness at least be somewhere in the picture screen when your guy catches a pass. AAARRRGGGHHH!!!
     
  2. Sandolf

    Sandolf Blue Moon Rising

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    713
    Ratings:
    +281
    That sounds like Cover 0 Bubba. The problem is if your guy gets beat there is no over the top safety.

    Maybe you can pick out a scheme here and make a suggestion. :)
     
  3. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2004
    Messages:
    2,107
    Ratings:
    +1,058
    Third and 9, against this defense has ALWAYS been a gimme -- swear to god herself that the phrase, ".... (tight end's name - take your choice) open, over the middle for 11" .... has become the bane of my existence while watching Packers games these last 4 seasons. 4th and 26 was a fluke ... but a wide open middle of the field on obvious passing downs plain and simple grinds my beans. It's almost as though the scheme is willing to give the offense the shot on the hopes that the offense will collapse somewhere else (penalty...dropped pass...batted ball...receiver distracted by his own image on the scoreboard...something...anything..._
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  4. Packerlifer

    Packerlifer Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Messages:
    709
    Ratings:
    +238
    I don't think it's any one thing. On various given plays one could identify different problems showing up. I think McCarthy alluded to this with his "recurring issues" statement not long ago. One could be the coaching decision to play prevent zone in some cases. Lack of a rush up front can be contributing. Mostly, though, the Packers just don't have a good enough group of players in their secondary any more.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,286
    Ratings:
    +1,452
    It is the crappy zone defense that causes the WR's to be wide open. Capers seems to be scared to play a physical bump man to man coverage. We have not had that type of physical play in GB since Al Harris. Our DB's seem to small/weak to play that game. Guys like megatron, B. Marshall, Dez bryant.... they would murder us....hence the reason (imo) for the soft crappy zone play. Not to mention, guys like brad jones couldn't cover a pee-wee football WR....that crap don't help. If we had a couple guys like the seahawks do, like Brandon browner.....6'4"+ and 225 Lbs and fast and physical and tough....we could play better pass defense.
     
  6. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,911
    Ratings:
    +984
    Well when you give a guy a free release and then play a soft zone on top of that? you will see yds given up in chunks. I think Capers is afraid to use more man to man coverage because it causes our lb's who are slow of foot to have to chase people and stay with them. We have a need for speed and i said this last yr. I watched the Niners/Seahawk game and they played alot of man across the board. Navarro Bowman and Patrick Willis give you that flexibility....i think Lattimore and Hawk give you more flexibility.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,678
    Guys, we miss Nick Collins so badly.
    He was a GREAT safety back there.
    We went from as good as it gets, to horse crap.
    Why they gave Burnett a rich new contract is beyond me.
    Thompson seemed to value him more than most when he traded up and took Burnett.
    Now this worked with Collins, who was a surprise pick that high.
    But it hasn't with Burnett yet.
    They thought he might blossom and they tried to stay ahead of the curve and extend him.
    We've seen, that's not the case yet, back there from him.
    Maybe not having a capable sidekick back there is the problem. McMillian and MD have failed as well.
    We seem to like Chris Banjo, but mostly because he hasn't been thrown back there enough to get exposed too yet.

    Check this stat out (I'm not sure if he got it from ProFootballFocus, or where, and stats can be a bit discretionary):

    Zach Kruse ‏@zachkruse2 22m

    When throwing at Morgan Burnett and M.D. Jennings this season, opposing QBs have 7 TDs, 0 INTs and a passer rating of 144.1.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  8. Bus Cook

    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    464
    Ratings:
    +226
    McKenzie/Harris was our best CB combo ever.
     
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  9. mradtke66

    mradtke66 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2011
    Messages:
    445
    Ratings:
    +171
    Lots of things.

    1) The rush hasn't been as good as needed at times.

    2) Hawk and our other ILBs aren't tall enough. Part of what helps prevent passes over the middle are tall ILBs that force the QB to put more touch on those throws. More touch leads to more time for safeties and ILBs to pop the received and jar it loose. Or make a play on the ball.

    3) Our ILBs aren't good enough cover men. Our corners are generally pretty good, especially when everyone is healthy. So backs and tight ends end up covered by 'backers. You could bring out more corners, but then the opposition will just ram it down our throats. So we get stuck doing things with our safeties that ends up (imho) predictable to stop the bleeding. This leads to 1-2-3 to work together:

    A sub-optimal pass rush gives the QB to scan the field and gives the receivers time to get open. The ILBs are often beat and the safeties are trying to cover up other mistakes. Now someone is open--either an outside guy because he broke free after 5 seconds (exageration for humor) and is in single coverage because a safety is helping out with a tight end OR the tight end is open because the safeties are playing deeper coverage. Or we sent 5, leaving only a single free safety. Or we sent 5 and chose to ignore an under route in exchange to keeping 2 guys deep.

    So what do we do?

    1) We need more pass rush, but really, the entire NFL does. You can't have too much. Matthews and Daniels are just fine, keep doing what you're doing. Neal has started to really improve. Even Perry has looked good on the right side. Maybe Datone makes the jump next year. Defensive linemen have one of the hardest jumps from college to the pros. If those 5 play up to potential next year, we'll be fine (imagine all 5 on the field at the same time!), but you always need more depth.

    2) Find that super-star ILB. Easier said than done, but he would solve 2 or 3 other issues at the same time.

    3) Replace Collins. Even easier said, even harder done.

    And of course, we haven't fixed our run defense, which will take a hit next year with the potential losses of Raji, Pickett, Wilson, and Jolly. All are free agents and it is very unlikely we can or want to keep all of them.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  10. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,911
    Ratings:
    +984
    Nooo way..i'd take Woodson/Harris in a heartbeat.
     
  11. Bus Cook

    Bus Cook You're never alone with a schizophrenic

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2013
    Messages:
    464
    Ratings:
    +226
    I'd take Woodson over either as well, but we had McKenzie and Harris when both were in their prime and were both still very physical. Close for me, certainly not a heartbeat.
     
  12. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,911
    Ratings:
    +984
    When throwing at Morgan Burnett and M.D. Jennings this season, opposing QBs have 7 TDs, 0 INTs and a passer rating of 144.1.[/quote]


    Well that says it all right there. Dang you Johnathan Stewart in your Tree trunk thighs!! We need a stud safety!
     
  13. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2011
    Messages:
    3,924
    Ratings:
    +1,379

    Well that says it all right there. Dang you Johnathan Stewart in your Tree trunk thighs!! We need a stud safety![/quote]
    And that doesn't scratch the surface on their play. Their tackling is just awful.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    2,911
    Ratings:
    +984
    And that doesn't scratch the surface on their play. Their tackling is just awful.[/quote]

    Yes it is...they tackle like corners instead of safties. Hyde may be our best tackling DB.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 2, 2010
    Messages:
    5,889
    Ratings:
    +1,678
    They rewarded Burnett with a new deal, paying him like a Pro Bowl safety.
    The other safety position, they rolled into the season with MD Jennings and Jerron McMillian, hoping they would improve from last year.
    They didn't as we know.
    J-Mac was cut finally last week.
    Now MD has been benched.
    Can you imagine if we still had Collins back there or had grabbed a FA safety like a LaRon Landry or Bernard Pollard, a couple of proven-physical presences back there.
    That's what we need, and what we hoped McMillian would provide.

    Richardson said coaches told him to expect more playing time but he wasn’t expecting to replace MD Jennings entirely.

    The only time MD Jennings got back on the field – other than late-game prevent situations – was when Richardson briefly pulled himself out early in the fourth quarter when the cold affected him, or at least his equipment.

    “My facemask shield froze up so I couldn’t really see,” he said. “I had to go to the sideline and try to scrape the ice off it.”
     
  16. lambeaulambo

    lambeaulambo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    537
    Ratings:
    +180
    Doug Evans/Tyrone Williams. Woodson/Tramon younger were exceptional.
     

Share This Page