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Who stood out..who didn't at minicamp...

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by TomAllen, Jun 27, 2006.

  1. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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  2. thetombradyhater

    thetombradyhater Cheesehead

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    welcometo the board tom
     
  3. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Thanks Tom, and welcome to the site.

    Boy, I have high hopes for Ferggy this season, looks like I might be wrong already. :(
     
  4. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    I gave up on having high hopes for Fergy last year. I hope they just move on and let Fergy go. He just doesn't appear to be the WR that people thought he had the potential to be
     
  5. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    Unfortunately we don't have the depth to cut Fergy. We need our rookies WRs to develop quickly before letting Fergy go.
     
  6. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    It sounds like our team is in good shape.

    Even the running game, which sounded bad there, will pan out. You should know damn well 1 of the following will do a good job: Ahman Green, Najeh Davenport, Samkon Gado, Noah Herron, Ben Brown.

    Spitz stealing the RG job surprised me, cuz it sounded like Coston was gonna yoink it. I am curious to see Spitz and Colledge with pads on in July. Colledge\Wells\Spitz is a young interior, but that doesn't mean it will stink all year (but im sure there will be moments). Also, their weaknesses sounded to be pass protection at this point, which makes Favre-Lovers shudder. However, this years offense is run-heavy(according to mccarthy and jags, but what do they know? jerks.), and they sound very capable of handling that load.

    WR sounds like a bit of concern, but with camp, there will be less playing hooky, so someone HAS to step up! They just have to!

    I am anxious to see Carroll live up to the hype...again. I heard all this when he was drafted. He was so "fast." Oh, how he "flashed." Uh huh, I hope its true this time though, but I am not counting on it.

    A-rod sounds horrible! Yikes. Ingle doesnt sound much better. Lets hope that changes with time, and Favre plays for another 26 years.
     
  7. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    (Thanks for the welcome.)

    I don't know. This assessment didn't sound too positive to me. I'm worried about the receiving corps, the offensive line, and the RB's. But I hope things pan out.

    Favre lovers? What's up with that? Speaking of which, there was a good interview with Favre on Mike and the Mad Dog today. Total team player. He said he will never play for another team than Green Bay. I don't understand people who like to attack or blame Favre, for whatever reason.
     
  8. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    trom.....this years offense will probably be dictated by the score of the game. By that I mean if we are ahead or close it may very well be run-heavy but if we fall behind these guys will need to be able to pass block. That said, I'm not TOO worried about passblocking at this point. It always takes longer for a new line to get down the pass blocking than the runblocking. There is time for them to get it right as long as they stay healthy and can play together all pre-season.
     
  9. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    depack, im going by what coaches of the green bay packers said. Your opinion.. is just that. thats why we're here!

    Sherman abandoned the run game faster than a deadbeat dad leaves his daughter at a carnival to get a skanky piece of ***....and it was disgusting(as my analogy).

    "if we fall behind.." we will still run the ball. That is the point. Unless we're down 13 with under 6 minutes in the game, the gameplan will probably still be in order(from what MM\JJ have said). A quick TD in the first quarter by the opposition would have Sherman throwing away the run game.

    With that said, I am worried about the pass blocking, but not as much as if the passing game was our #1 priority on offense. Running is, and our run blocking is good. But with a month till training camp, with working out, studying, individual time...the picture will be more clear then.
     
  10. DePack

    DePack Cheesehead

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    Sigh.....I wasn't starting anything here and yes it is my opinion. Thanks for pointing that out. However my opinion is based on facts.

    As much as you love to rip Sherman for abandoning the run game it is not based on facts.

    Fact: Brett Favre has averaged 34.4 passes per game in his career.

    Fact: Brett Favre averaged 34.4 passes per game under Holmgren.

    Fact: Brett Favre averaged 33.9 passes per game under Mike Sherman.


    He averaged about 38 passes a game last season because we were behind so much and lost all our running backs. So you can see from the facts that Sherman didn't abandon the run during his career. Last season's passing was because of the game situations as mentioned in my previous post.
     
  11. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Yes, that assessment was very negative, but, may not be far from the truth. It's funny that outside of Packer nation, most people think this team will stink.

    I can't think of many years that I actually went into the year thinking we were going to go 4-12 or 5-11. Every team in the NFL thinks best case a super bowl run and worst case 7-9. I live in Ohio and people state the Browns are going to the playoffs even though the rest of the world predicts a dismal season.


    I am just trying to be objective and look at it from the outside. There may be a reason everyone on the outside thinks this team will be lousy, because maybe they just will.

    In my opinion our defense is our strength, but without the D-line, THE WEAK SPOT, getting pressure on the QB the rest of the defense will have to play thier assses off to make this a top 5 defense. If this team has any chance it has to be a Defensive juggernaut, not just really good.


    On Offense, I think we are in bad shape. I love Brett but he has had the luxury of a solid line for the majority of his career. He can't do it with young recievers and no time to throw the ball. The run game seems ok to me but as DePack said if we are down by 14 in the fouth quarter, we are going to have to air it out. I believe the run sets up the pass and vice versa, but both are as as important as the other. GB may try to poundthe ball but if opposing coordinators know that they will take it away. In fact with a bunch of rookies it will be an easy task.


    Throw in a HORRID special teams squad and maybe this team IS just not that good. It's hard to swallow, but completety understandable if we all take off our cheeseheads.
     
  12. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Trom and DePack, I think you both contribute to a the answer.

    It was a cycle, the RB's got injured, no adequate replacement/bad o-line play, which caused Packers to fall behind and end up needing to get big gains in short amount of time all led to a travesty of a run game.

    I think the wildcard in all this is Green, becasue if he does come back healthy like before, we'll be good to go. But that is a big if. That being said, TT and MM aren't idiots, they wouldn't have relied on Green so much unless they knew to a high degree of probability that he would come back to old form.
     
  13. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    This post makes alot of sense. Good post.
     
  14. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I see what Trom is saying bout Sherman and the running game...

    It did seem at certain times of some games that the running game was gone, even when they were not down by a lot, it just seemed like he dumped it for what ever reason..

    I think you would agree with that statement right?

    I was suprised to see those stats about the running game Depack..Here is some more...

    Sherman teams on avg per game 27 rushes

    M.H 27 rushes per game

    That is amazing to me..
     
  15. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Does anyone else wanna handle this one? I know I am not the only person who watched (almost) every game last year, and watch the running game get thrown right out the window early on.

    Why is everything _______ vs ________ with you? I don't care that it is sherman who did it. The run game was abandoned. I think Ahman had one 20+rush attempt game before he was out for the year.

    We lost 5 games by 3-points or less, it's not like we were down 21 points and needed to pass. There was no reason to do that. Near the end of the year, Gado got more carries, and guess what...he got a lot of yards!

    With a guy like Ahman, who takes time to heat up, he would get shut down by the coaches before he could even get that far.

    "He averaged about 38 passes a game last season because we were behind so much" ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? We lost 5 games by 3 points or less!

    He threw it 51 times AND 58 times vs Chicago(the best defense in the league, with arguably the worst o-line in the league in GB, with no good WRs except DD).

    51 times!

    In the 4 wins last year, Favre averaged 33.5 attempts.
    In the 12 losses last year, Favre averaged 39.4 attempts.

    Whatever. Sherman is gone, new coaches in, who appear(appear) to know what they're doing and how to handle things(if it works out, is another story).

    My point is(which isnt to bash the shermhead), the run game is important to this years team, and the coaches dont appear to be the type to throw it away as quick as (i think) sherm did. Also, the fact that our young guards seem to do better at run blocking than pass blocking, is good, since running is the offenses priority. I am concerned about the pass blocking, I dont wanna see Favre get laid out play after play (I was at the Chicago\GB game at soldier field, and watched that man get destroyed...), and hopefully that will improve when the pads come on in July.

    this isnt about me vs. sherm, or me vs. you,depack. This is about me looking at the team, and coming to conclusions off of past statistics, and what our current coaches say about the scheme.

    edit - we are kinda hijacking this thread, which is about who showed up at camp, so if you wanna continue this, we can PM eachother?...before AADP comes in and lays the hammer down?
     
  16. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    I don't know why people are so surprised that Sherman had an attack similar to MH. Sherman did indeed run the WCO, similarly to MH. The MAJOR difference was that Sherman was a lot more open to having long bombs when compared to MH.
     
  17. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Could u not say that about every team in the nfl?
     
  18. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    True, though he didn't have the receivers to execute the long bombs once Javon went down. Oh well.
     
  19. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    its about knowing who you have, which is another thing that bothered me last year.

    No WRs
    No good o-line
    No extra blockers on most passing plays

    Lets pass it, Brett! Make it work!

    As a huge favre fan, guys like depack should be happy this happened. God, watching Favre get destroyed was torture.

    Empty backfields on 3rd and longs were crazy. and those who were in gameday chats with me know i called it out, i pointed it out, i made it known. I also called out the pulling of guards, and how they failed horribly, cuz our guards just werent good enough. not entirely their fault, but the coaches not knowing what their players are and are not capable of. ARGH!

    SORRY! I WONT RESPOND TO ANYMORE!SFSHDLKJH!
     
  20. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Thanks for the surprising stats DePack. I think Sherman abandoned the run early but it was so ineffective that it didn't really matter. It's not like he abandoned a successful running game. If I had Brett Favre at QB and couldn't pick up 3 yards on the ground I would throw it to.

    Trom, DePack is right about the passing game. We did lose several close games but most of those were from the Packers throwing the ball to get it close at the end. If we wouldn't have thrown the ball we would have lost by 10 or 17 instead of 3.


    Shermans coaching style did not frustrate me as much as most other NFL coaches. Injuries killed this team last year along with the hideous O-line. Again I blame TT for letting Wahle and Rivera go, with no real plan to replace them. Combine a ugly offensive line with 4th string backups and 4-12 is what you get. No Play calling in the world is going to make that successful.
     
  21. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    but...aren't you a coach?

    are you saying that you should abandon the running game(even if it does indeed suck) and become 1-dimensional, and just take away the guessing game for the defense, and let them know "yeah, we're passing...again, cuz we stopped doing that in the first quarter when Ahman couldnt do crap...which is how he always has been his entire career."

    I like how my stats were ignored. Convenient.

    If you're gonna go heavy in one area(pass or run) you better be GOOD at it. 29 ints? Yes, not all his fault, we know that. But...Favre can't block for Favre. Favre can't catch for Favre. It was horrible.
     
  22. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    So basically what you all seem to be saying is that there was nothing, or not much, Favre could do last year with the state of the Packer team--except maybe wing it up there and pray for a miracle?
     
  23. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    And Then.........





    You can't ignore DePack's facts and then expect people to take yours into consideration.



    Let me try to explain this to you Trom, and I am not being rude or conceited. As a coach if you come out with a gameplan to run the ball and you run it 10 times for 15 yards you think to yourself "I need to loosen up the run defense." This is accomplished by throwing the ball.

    So now you throw the ball hoping to take advantage of the Defenses aggressiveness. MS threw the ball and even if it was successful it still would not open up the run game. Do you know why? Because it wasn't an aggressive Defense stopping the run, it was horrid O-line play. A high school team could have shut down the Packers run game last year especially early on.


    Just like the run sets up the pass the pass sets up the run. We could not set up the pass because we had no running game and we could not set up the run because the O-Line stunk, thus not opening up the pass game.


    If both are ineffective you use the pass more because you can use dump-offs and screens as well as deeper routes giving you at least a resemblence of a 2 option offense.
     
  24. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    he did what he did. he was the gunslinger, and when you gunsling with no WRs, no oline, and an abandoned run game, you throw 29 ints. Could he have pulled back and not thrown some of them, damn straight! But thats not what favre does. So thats why the team had to improve the line (which it appears to, even though its still not near ideal) and some WRs(a lot of average depth, no gamebreakers, but guys who are pros at least, not practice squad jobbers), and a run game(good run blocking guards, and najeh,ahman,samkon,herron)

    Things will be easier for Favre this year, thank god. But if I see the line being abused(which could happen at times no doubt), and empty backfield sets WHILE thats happening, I will be calling for McCarthys job, JUST like I did Shermans.
     
  25. Timmons

    Timmons Cheesehead

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    Depacks stats about how many times Brett threw the ball has NOTHING to do with how soon we abandoned the running game. How about listing how many running attempts were had per game.

    I believe Sherman abandoned the run early and often, and for all the wrong reasons. The stat of 33 attempts per game doesn't mean anything with the knowledge of downs of possession were had each game. Brett threw 29 ints last year, of course his passing attempts will seem low! the other team had the damn ball.

    The best thing that happened to Sherman's stint was Brett's broken thumb, we were forced to run the ball and we ran it well.

    Back on topic. Pooey about Fergie. I too was hoping that someday he'd be somebody. I am going to state my predictions for the year of 6-10.
     

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