Who stays, who goes?

[Big Guy]

I knew that, I'm trying to go back and figure out whom I meant there or if it was a typo, Williams of course is not a cut candidate.

How many times did Jamaal Williams line up deep under kickoffs?

 

[mradtke66]

We don’t need to extend Rodgers to rework his contract.

Relatively simple: convert most or all of his 2021 salary into a signing bonus.

I show 15 million and change for salary, 6 million plus in roster bonus. There is a vet minimum to salary, let’s say we can convert 20 million of that into a signing bonus.

We’d turn that 20 million hit into 6.67million this year and an extra 6.7m for 2022 and 2023. Instant relief for this year.

We could also do other things—add some years, convert more of future salary into bonuses, etc.

While there is no free lunch, it would be a win-win.

Financially, Rodgers gets more money know. He is in theory happier.

By giving Rodgers more bonus money, cutting and trading him is harder due to accelerated cap hits. Team shows commitment, Rodgers is happy.

By playing bonus games, the team creates some cap relief over the next couple or few seasons. The team is happy. Rodgers is also happy, as it increases our ability to retain our current talent and/or acquire 1 or 2 FAs.

 

[Sanguine camper]

jmo. I think we will be a better team. Fill in some holes. Have better special teams and a better D coordinator.

Fans keep expecting the Packer special teams to improve but every year has new faces but the same dismal results. Under MM the special teams were attricious costing the 2014 nfccg. With Lafleur they still suck. Why would you assume they will improve? The special teams were terrible this year but they were good enough for Lafleur. He stuck with Menenga.

 

[gopkrs]

Fans keep expecting the Packer special teams to improve but every year has new faces but the same dismal results. Under MM the special teams were attricious costing the 2014 nfccg. With Lafleur they still suck. Why would you assume they will improve? The special teams were terrible this year but they were good enough for Lafleur. He stuck with Menenga.

With McCarthy and lately with LaFleur, we have had bad ST coaches. McCarthy refused to hire a new one or just changed from within. I think Mark Murphy had a lot to do with having a bad coach this year and I am hopeful that LaFleur has shown enough that he will be able to call his own shots from now on. So I think we will get a new ST coach picked by LaFleur. And having a good ST will make a difference. But we need some better young talent in the D backfield. Gonna have to do that in the draft I think. And having Greene back will help, even though he seems to get hurt. Need depth there.

 

[Half Empty]

jmo. I think we will be a better team. Fill in some holes. Have better special teams and a better D coordinator.

I really, really am not trying to be confrontational, especially because you being with 'jmo', but my knee-jerk thought was pretty much "so, the same hope that's been there since 2010?". There are a number of specific problems; there are no specific solutions. But, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade.

 

[easyk83]

I really, really am not trying to be confrontational, especially because you being with 'jmo', but my knee-jerk thought was pretty much "so, the same hope that's been there since 2010?". There are a number of specific problems; there are no specific solutions. But, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade.

I mean winning a super bowl is freaking tough, there are franchises that have never won one period. We have an HoF QB and we expect to win one more before Rodgers retires. But look at the Falcons Lions Vikings Bengals etc. So yeah we are perpetually going to be looking at those defects and be thinking that we need to fix those to get over the hump. But even doing so is no guarantee. Likewise Super Bowl winners get there with weak points, the question is are your strengths enough to more than make up for those issues.

Crazy thought we might never see a Packer Super Bowl team for the rest of our lives.

 

[tynimiller]

I think some are just illogical. Want a sobering thought of honesty:

In 54 SUPER BOWLS, over half a century of the NFL:

Only 20 franchises have at least one superbowl.
Only 12 franchises have won more than one superbowl.
Only 5 Franchises can say they have been to more superbowls than GB.


Only 21 QBs out of ALL that have played have started in 2 or more superbowls.


Someone else said it, getting the to Super Bowl is a freaking gauntlet which is no easy task. I think the one thing the Patriots and also Brady has done is warp folks understanding of the challenge of that climb each year really is. There are reasons that some of the greatest QBs to lace up only see one or two, shoot a few never do.

Just something to remember when discussing expectations and reality of a situation.

 

[Poppa San]

I think the one thing the Patriots and also Brady has done is warp folks understanding of the challenge of that climb each year really is. There are reasons that some of the greatest QBs to lace up only see one or two, shoot a few never do.

Another thing Brady has proven is a very good QB paired with a top 10 defense will get you to the top more often than a great QB and top flight offense with a so-so or average defense.

 

[Half Empty]

I think some are just illogical. Want a sobering thought of honesty:

In 54 SUPER BOWLS, over half a century of the NFL:

Only 20 franchises have at least one superbowl.
Only 12 franchises have won more than one superbowl.
Only 5 Franchises can say they have been to more superbowls than GB.


Only 21 QBs out of ALL that have played have started in 2 or more superbowls.


Someone else said it, getting the to Super Bowl is a freaking gauntlet which is no easy task. I think the one thing the Patriots and also Brady has done is warp folks understanding of the challenge of that climb each year really is. There are reasons that some of the greatest QBs to lace up only see one or two, shoot a few never do.

Just something to remember when discussing expectations and reality of a situation.

Agree it isn't easy. Agree that multiples are rare. Agree that expectations are important.

Contend that expectations should be higher when deploying a HOF QB. Understanding that any stat can be manipulated, and willing to work with other criteria, I took HOF status as an indication of really good QBs and the first 34 SBs (since most after that aren't eligible for the HOF, and the winners were 26-8 HOF, even the losers were 16-18 HOF, so the starting QBs in the first 34 SBs were 42-26 HOF. The Pack has fielded QBs we all feel are HOF, probably first ballot, for over a quarter of a century. Hence, I feel our expectations have been rightfully higher than most franchises and we have thus been disappointed more often.

 

[gopkrs]

I really, really am not trying to be confrontational, especially because you being with 'jmo', but my knee-jerk thought was pretty much "so, the same hope that's been there since 2010?". There are a number of specific problems; there are no specific solutions. But, I don't want to rain on anyone's parade.

Nobody, not even the decision makers, can tell you the exact future. We need to do things and we need to do what is available to us. It is a fluid thing. If we have the right people; the results will show. If we don't; we fire people. Just like any other organization. Right now, I feel pretty good about the team and its prospects. If you choose not to...esta bien.

 

[Half Empty]

Oh, when you put it that way... My only caveat would be that I think many of us have, over these years, felt that they didn't have the right people, but the firings didn't happen or happened too late.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I mean winning a super bowl is freaking tough, there are franchises that have never won one period. We have an HoF QB and we expect to win one more before Rodgers retires. But look at the Falcons Lions Vikings Bengals etc.

I think some are just illogical. Want a sobering thought of honesty:

In 54 SUPER BOWLS, over half a century of the NFL:

Only 20 franchises have at least one superbowl.
Only 12 franchises have won more than one superbowl.
Only 5 Franchises can say they have been to more superbowls than GB.

Only 21 QBs out of ALL that have played have started in 2 or more superbowls.

There's no doubt it's tough to even make it to the Super Bowl.

But how many other teams have had the benefit of featuring a HOF starting quarterback for nearly 30 consecutive seasons? Therefore it's disappointing the Packers have only won two over that period.

 

[tynimiller]

Reports coming in cap will be 185 not the feared 175. Every little bit helps.

 

[gopkrs]

Reports coming in cap will be 185 not the feared 175. Every little bit helps.

Maybe we could get Edelman

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I like this. Keep Preston, re-sign Jones, let Jamaal and Dean test the market and come back for Vet Min.

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[tynimiller]

I like this. Keep Preston, re-sign Jones, let Jamaal and Dean test the market and come back for Vet Min.

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Zero chance Jamaal comes back on vet minimum, that dude will get interest 100%

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

Excuse me, "Packers Friendly Deal/Aaron Rodgers Discount"

Lowry will probably get "overpaid" and go to a 4-3 team and turn into a Pro Bowler with our luck. I know we've been running a 3-4 forever but this team is more equipped to run an even front than most of you would like to admit.

 

[mradtke66]

Excuse me, "Packers Friendly Deal/Aaron Rodgers Discount"

Lowry will probably get "overpaid" and go to a 4-3 team and turn into a Pro Bowler with our luck. I know we've been running a 3-4 forever but this team is more equipped to run an even front than most of you would like to admit.

We honestly have the same problem with and odd or even front.

The 2-4 nickel they run is reallly a 4-2.

if we switch to a 4-3 tomorrow, and our front 4 is the same. Z and Gary at end, Clark at one of the DT spots and us scrambling for another to pair with him.

we also lack a dynamic player at WILL if we switched to. 4-3.

Also Lowry is unlikely to succeed in most 4-3s. At best, he’s a strong side, 2 down player as a 5T and occasional 3T on passing downs between the 20s.

In other words, more or less exactly how we use him.

 

[Favre>Rodgers259]

I disagree on Lowry, I don't think he'd necessarily be dominant but if all he had to worry about was one guy in a single gap system I think his production increases noticeably.

I think we could get away with a combination of Barnes/Burks at Will with Preston/Summers at Sam. Kirksey/Martin would play the Mike.

We'd definitely be targeting a Will in the following Draft though.

 

[Mondio]

Zero chance Jamaal comes back on vet minimum, that dude will get interest 100%

He's signing for a lot more than a minimum contract, no doubt. And Lowery isn't a FA , we'd have to cut him, which I'm leaning towards. But you're not going to cut him and take a hit of 3 million or so, and then sign him back at what is sure to put him at about the same cap figure for you anyway.

If he's cut, he's cut. and he'll likely make more than a vet min contract too so bringing back at that rate seems unlikely and coupled with the fact it just doesn't make any sense in the big picture finances of it, I have to say someone didn't think this one thru

 

[Dantés]

I feel like this gets said every couple of months, and it just sort of falls into the void, but I'm going to say it again anyways:

If we're defining a base defense as the formation that a defense uses most of the time, the Packers base defense is not 3-4 or 4-3. In fact, virtually zero NFL teams are using 3-4 or 4-3 formations the majority of the time.

I have not seen stats on 2020 yet, but in 2019, here was the defensive formational breakdown for the Packers:

• Dime+ (6 or more DB's): 51%
• Nickel (5 DB's): 28%
• 3-4: 19%

There was only one team in the league that ran "base" defense more than 38% of the time in 2019 (the Seahawks at 69%). All 31 other teams were at 38% or less.

Here are the top 11 defensive players in terms of snap counts in 2020:

1. Amos
2. Alexander
3. Savage
4. Z. Smith
5. P. Smith
6. Sullivan
7. King
8. Lowry
9. Clark
10. Kirksey
11. Gary

That's five defensive backs, one linebacker, three edge players, and two defensive linemen.

The next five guys in terms of snap counts are one linebacker, two defensive linemen, and two defensive backs.

In other words, the Packers are not a 3-4 team, they're a nickel/dime team.

Arguments about whether they're more/less equipped to run even/odd fronts are irrelevant. People think of them as an odd front, 3-4 team, but the reality is that they're playing four across as much or more as they are three or five.

The perception that guys like Lowry are playing a 2 gapping 5 technique role anywhere close to the majority of the time is based on the way defenses were playing like 20 years ago.

 

[tynimiller]

Correct labeling our Defense a 4-3 or a 3-4 changes very very little if anything of what we will see on Sundays

 

[mradtke66]

If we're defining a base defense as the formation that a defense uses most of the time, the Packers base defense is not 3-4 or 4-3. In fact, virtually zero NFL teams are using 3-4 or 4-3 formations the majority of the time.

In other words, the Packers are not a 3-4 team, they're a nickel/dime team.

The perception that guys like Lowry are playing a 2 gapping 5 technique role anywhere close to the majority of the time is based on the way defenses were playing like 20 years ago.

Thanks for pointing this out more directly than I did. I was trying to spit this out in my reply but managed to forget to.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Maybe we could get Edelman

Edelman is under contract for another year in New England. Trading for him wouldn't be a smart move to make.

I think we could get away with a combination of Barnes/Burks at Will with Preston/Summers at Sam. Kirksey/Martin would play the Mike.

I don't think the Packers defense would fare well with either Burks and/or Summers playing a significant amount of snaps.

In addition I would be surprised if Kirksey is still on the roster in 2021.