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Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by PackwillBEback, Jul 8, 2008.

  1. PackwillBEback

    PackwillBEback Cheesehead

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    Favre or Rodgers?

    Obviously Favre, look at his numbers last year...therefore no brainer it is all about winning right this minute...therefore if Favre wants to come back he better be the number one, get over it...if you don't want the best 22...then you don't want to win....
     
  2. Heatherthepackgirl

    Heatherthepackgirl Cheesehead

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    Re: Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year


    Totally agree, I think we have more of a chance to win this year with Brett as QB, I have nothing against Rodgers, if he is our QB I will wish him the very best.
     
  3. dd80forever

    dd80forever Cheesehead

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    Amen Brother, that's what sports is about. How something so Simple can be so hard for the average guy to not over-analyze is amazing.
     
  4. PackwillBEback

    PackwillBEback Cheesehead

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    This is not to say I don't like or support Aaron. If Aaron is the quarterback then I will root for him like I did for Favre....whoever is out there I will root for and will believe in....but I want the best possible team starting...and if Favre is back...then he should be a part of those plans.
     
  5. PackwillBEback

    PackwillBEback Cheesehead

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    The man hasn't even sat out one season....or one game....or even one training camp....people who holdout or are injured have missed more time from offseasons than Brett Favre.....but the likes of Raider Pride who think his legacy is dropping don't get it......nobody here thinks logically.....he really never went anywhere....he missed a few OTAs...OH NO!!!!!! He didn't do that in the past *rolls eyes*.
     
  6. Raider Pride

    Raider Pride Cheesehead

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    Once again. Let me state. "SOME PEOPLE" think "His legacy is dropping." Comment based on conversation on Sports Radio this morning on the Portland Oregon radio station.

    Read my post again.

    Jeese...

    To answer the question posted in this thread.

    I would say Brett. Brett this year, during the regular season, before it gets too cold? After that I would say Young Aaron has the best chance of winning for the Packers and not throwing an int with a mental error by trying to force something and hit a home run.

    Now if Brett does come back he best understand that Arron is going to go into every game when the team is up by 14 or down by 14.

    Brett did not want to come out of any game the last three years, regardless, and the Packers coaches were going to do everything to make him happy, even if it meant not giving Aaron the chance to develop real game snap experience for the future without Brett.

    This is the reason Aaron had a grand total of 28 pass attempts last year with a team that was 13-3. He would have only 2 if Brett did not get injured in Dallas.

    That is a joke, especially when you consider that Brett has been threatening to retire for the last three years, or ever since the Packers drafted Aaron.

    How many times in Trom's Game Day Lounge last year were we asking why Brett was still in the game in the 4th Quarter after being nicked up with the Packers ahead.

    59 pass attempts for a first pick s a QB in three years?

    Throw out the 26 passes he made against Dallas when Brett was injured and that makes it 33 real game pass attempts in three years to learn from because perhaps Brett did not want to sit down for the future QB to learn from real time game experience.

    33 opportunities in three years? That is just nuts, and I think the Packers have respected Brett's wishes to not leave the field, even though they knew Arron needed the snaps. Especially because they never knew if Brett was going to be back based on Brett leaving the team and fans hanging every off season since Aaron was drafted.
     
  7. dd80forever

    dd80forever Cheesehead

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    Re: Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year


    Isn't this MM's team? You act like Brett through a hissy fit because he came out YET I don't remember him ever saying anything. Do you have inside info? Are you making more assumptions? It seems that way.

    Regarding Cold Weather games, shouldn't we pull the whole defensive unit then as well? Ryan Grant, find the bench as well. I've never seen someone used as a scapegoat like this. Was Brett the only on playing that day?
     
  8. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    Re: Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year


    Ted Thompson maybe... nah hes had a smooth ride here. You're right Brett never does anything wrong. Its just management.
     
  9. PackFaninBucLand

    PackFaninBucLand Cheesehead

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    The team this year has been geared around Rodgers style of play and it is different from that of Favre. McCarthy said so himself when comparing Favre's best route progressions to that of Rodgers.

    I suppose that it would not be too late to retool back to Favre but that means a lot of what has been accomplished is lost. Favre mentioned in his press conference that he was drained mentally after each game and had to immediately study film for the following week. Is he willing to do that again? Would anyone doubt that the much of the reason that Favre was so successful this year is that he finally put the off-field hours into the game because it was demanded of him?

    Favre also performed better when he let the game come to him and that took constant reminders by McCarthy and staff. IMO, Favre has never played that well in big games (including the SB loss to Denver) because he always seemed to get too jacked up. I sensed it happened again towards the end of the year and certainly in the Giant's game. I believe that Rodgers may very well have been the difference in that game.

    Arguably, Favre might very well NOT be the best option to win this year! I was a Rodgers doubter a year ago but having seen him play with some experience of the offense, my mind has changed. The only thing that I would now question with Rodgers is his durability.
     
  10. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    Played bad in the Giants game?

    Favre led the packers from behind THREE times!

    And regarding overtime, it is still a mystery as to whether Favre threw a bad ball or there was miscommunication on which route adjustment Driver made.
     
  11. Tiger

    Tiger Cheesehead

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    well he did have 3 other recievers who were wide open when he threw the int..
     
  12. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    see this is kind of stuff that I wish Favre would exclude himself from by just staying retired. Here we are nitpicking the guy that i think is the best to ever play the game. All this could have been avoided.

    The man is a legend and we dont need to be nitpicking at his last games, but he keeps putting himself in the light so whatever.
     
  13. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Re: Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year

    RP - Agreed with you here, but the blame goes squarely on the shoulders of MM. MM is Coach. He calls the shots. You know I'm a big fan of MM, but his is where he and I disagree. Aaron should have thrown for 100 passes last year.
     
  14. de_real_deal

    de_real_deal Cheesehead

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    Re: Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year

    Maybe we should have sat Al Harris in the Giants game. If Harris shows up even a little bit in that game, we destroy the Giants. Favre cant cover opposing receivers. Sorry. Anyone want to blame Favre for a bad overtime throw in 10 degree weather at the end of the season, you go right ahead. Thats the difference between those type of people and smart ones.
     
  15. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    we don't know that for a fact. the only picture we saw is the one as he is releasing the ball. What did it look like when he committed to throwing to DD. Who's to say that had DD made the adjustment Fave was expecting that he in fact would have been the most wide open?
     
  16. trippster

    trippster Cheesehead

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    Re: Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year

    I am jumping on deals bandwagon on this one. Saying that Aaron wouldn't have thrown that ball is pure conjecture. Also, if you are going to assume Aaron wouldn't make that mistake, earlyier in the game, how many other mistakes would he have made that Brett didn't purely because of Brett's experience?
     
  17. dd80forever

    dd80forever Cheesehead

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    Re: Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year


    Good point. It's so elementary to pin that loss on Favre. Ryan Grant averaged a whopping 2.2 yards a carry. Plax had a field day and for as good as MM was in the regular season his gameplan flat out stunk. I mean we ran the ball only like 13 times or something in that kind of weather with Ryan Grant. Plenty of blame to go around there.
     
  18. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Re: Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year

    Regarding the cold

    Obviously the whole team and coaching is also too blame for the Giants debacle but for the most part I agree.

    Favre's body language said it all. He didn't look comfortable out there and he didn't look like he wanted too be there. The Bears game is another example of this and it kind of foreshadowed what was too come. Favre looked the same way that day as he did in the NFC Title game.

    I'm not saying Rodgers gives us a better chance too win in the cold. I don't know but I think people need too concede that Favre can no longer play as well in the cold as he used too.

    That also means it's up too the coaches to not put the game on his shoulders like McCarthy did against the Giants.
     
  19. packer_backer

    packer_backer Cheesehead

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    Re: Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year

    i agree. that hurts to say because when you think of favre you think of great bad weather qb, snow, rain, mudd, freezing cold.

    favre and nasty weather go together like bonnie and clyde or PB and jelly and it hurts to see the "i wish i was inside" look on his face while on Lambeau Field playing the game he loves.

    that being said, i still have my fingers crossed for favre in a packers uniform once the season starts. (sorry Aaron)
     
  20. RainX

    RainX Cheesehead

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    Ah, that is the ultimate question, isn't it? That's all TT and MM have to really look at objectively in order to make a decision on who should be this teams starter for the 2008 season.

    I'm sorry, but if it was only TT's job to objectively look at the team for the next 6 months, he'd be doing a pretty piss poor job as a GM. Now, I'm not saying he shouldn't be concerned about the product he'll be fielding this season, but he's also got to be very concious of future seasons as well. Seasons, more than likely, Brett won't be here for.

    But, back to the original question. I would have agreed with Brett being this teams best option in 2008 IF he had been on board from the first week of March onward attending at least the mandatory OTAs and mini-camps and preparing for the regular season like he did during the 2007 off-season on his own schedule. He hasn't done nearly anything remotely similar to what he did last season at this time other than riding his tractor and tossing footballs to high school kids and not NFL calibur recievers. I'm sure he's probably kept in somewhat good shape, but is he going to be in football shape by the time he attends the first training camp practice? Probably nothing close to what he was at this time last season.

    Now I think we all remember during his retirment press conference he stated he was just mentally worn out and not wanting to deal with all the preparation aspects of getting ready for an NFL season as well as mentioning on numerous occasions during his playing career not being a fan of weekday practices. How mentally committed is he going to truly be going into training camp and really giving a 100% effort during those weekly regular season practices to get ready for gameday on each Sunday this year? No one truly knows, but looking at the evidence at hand, I'd say less so than in years past.

    Then you have to objectively look at the Aaron Rodgers side of the coin. Everyone is saying he doesn't have any experience and we really don't know what he's capable of. Well, how is he supposed to show anyone anything if he can't get on the field to prove himself because he's holding a clipboard for 17 weeks each season? Aaron has been a class act patiently waiting for his turn the last three season, and other than one dumb comment he made to SI that he later apologized for, he's been a good teammate and locker room presence since being drafted. Even in his statements today, he's still going about things business as usual despite all the media circus over this situation.

    Let me pose these questions to everyone since it's just not as simple as some of you make it out to be:

    Q. Does Aaron Rodgers have any chance of leading this team to a Super Bowl in 2009 (assuming Brett would truly retire after the '08 season) if he has to sit on the bench again this season?

    A. By the general feeling and reading of everyone posts in favor of a Favre return this season, my guess would generally be no he doesn't because he doesn't have any regular season experience.

    Q. Is it going to be worth resigning Aaron Rodgers before his contract expires after the 2009 season based on just the one developmental season he played in 2009? (again assuming Brett would truly retire after 2008)

    A. Based on Carson Palmer's first season after riding the bench his rookie year, maybe so, assuming it would be a decent one. But it's nice to have an extra season on tap to work out a new deal during 2009 if he would come out and have a pretty good 2008. This is assuming he'd even want to stick around after being benched in favor of Favre during the '08 season, which is also something TT & MM would need to concern themselves with if they go in favor of Favre in 2008.

    Q. If we go with Aaron Rodgers next season instead of Brett, what can we hopefully expect out of him?

    A. Obviously this is a difficult question to answer, but there is some precedent for this. Everyone remember a QB named Aaron Brooks who we drafted in 1999 and later traded to the Saints in 2000? 2000 also happened to be the first year McCarthy was named the New Orleans Saints offensive coordinator. Between 2001 and 2004, McCarthy was able to get some decent offensive output from him and that offense despite the somewhat erratic and inconsistent play of Brooks. When McCarthy left New Orleans after the 2004 season, Brooks fell apart even more and was eventually benched and out of the league entirely.

    Now, I'm not sitting here saying Aaron Rodgers is going to be an inconsistent QB like Brooks was. What I am saying though is, if McCarthy can get some even remotely decent, albeit somewhat inconsistent, offensive output of a QB the caliber of Brooks who had Horn and Stallworth to throw to as well as a healthy and effective Deuce McCallister behind him, don't you think it's remotely possible he could get quite a bit more out of Aaron Rodgers, who has a lot more potential upside than Brooks ever had, with the weapons he will have around him for the next few years? Now obviously, a lot of this hinges on Rodgers staying off IR, but McCarthy has a decent record of getting a lot out of pretty mediocre QBs. Whose to say he can't turn Rodgers into an upper tier QB if Rodgers truly lives up to his potential? Hasselbeck and Brunell both backed up Favre for a couple of years and they went on to have pretty productive careers. Obviously, we won't know this until AR actually gets some real playing time under his belt, and the longer he has to sit on that bench after being told it was finally his turn, the less likely it is he's going to want to stick around and if we are going to be able to find out if the 3+ year investment this team made in him is going to pan out.

    Look, I apologize for writing a book again, but Ted and Mike have a lot more to objectively look at then just which QB gives this team the best chance to win THIS year. Trying to simplify this whole situation down to one basic question does little for the long term success of this football team, something both TT and MM have to take quite a bit into consideration if they plan on both lasting for the duration of those big contact extensions they signed last year.
     
  21. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    Re: Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year

    like cocaine and waffles. exactly.


    Brett Favre wore a ski mask in a cold weather game. Does anyone else see the significance of that?


    That isn't the Brett Favre you all are cheering to come back.
     
  22. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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  23. dd80forever

    dd80forever Cheesehead

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    Re: Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year

    Yeah you are right. Over 4000 yards passing and 28 TD's, what a stiff.

    He only had to keep making up for the ineptness of the Defense 3 times that day with no running game. Funny, you don't say anythinh about that.
     
  24. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    Re: Who do we have a better chance of winning with this year


    come on man... for the last time its not smack talk to Brett. I have never and will never blame one person for a loss nor for a win. It isn't possible in football really. unless he was a cornerback with the nickname "holding".

    That said... Brett Favre without the face mask elevates the Packers out of all situations and helps wins the game no matter what. This is the quarterback Favre fans wanna see back. The immortal Brett Favre.

    Brett Favre with the face mask is a QB that couldn't do enough to help his team win and in fact made a very mortal mistake at the end in the clutchest moment. He is mortal. Brett Favre without the face mask could beat anyone and make anything happen, Brett Favre with the face mask admits to defeat before he begins. We will be a good football team with or without him.
     
  25. Greg C.

    Greg C. Cheesehead

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    Rain X: Thanks for saying what I was going to say. It took awhile to read, but it still took a lot less time than it would've for me to write something like that.

    I wil just add that if the world was going to end after the 2008 season, I would say, let's give it one more shot with Favre and see what happens. But there will be seasons after this one, and that's what tips the balance against bringing Favre back. Considering that most fans and journalists have a one-year attention span, I'm not surprised that a lot of people disagree with me on this one. I just don't think it's so simple, and it is debatable that the Pack has a better chance with Favre than with Rodgers in 2008 anyway.
     

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