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When will Packer fans learn?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, Jan 25, 2012.

  1. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Every single offseason its the cry of a handful of Packer fans...

    "Ted needs to make a huge splash in Free Agency and get (insert player)!" or "Ted needs to be really active in the offseason since we are so close to a SB"

    Yet every year he doesnt do much in FA (minus Woodson) and still the team improves. He got us a SB, a 15-1 season (best ever) and the 2nd longest winning streak in NFL history.

    This team doesnt need an overhaul. No team is dominate at every position. Through 15 games we were 12th in points given up in the NFL, so while the team needs to clean up a little, its an easy fix. Landing some big Free Agent will mess with our ability to resign key packers and would go against the philosophy Ted has put in place for winning.

    Take away a few drop passes and last week we would have hosted the NFC championship game. This is still an all time great team, they just played a bad game at the worst time of the year.
     
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  2. Greenbayphil

    Greenbayphil Cheesehead

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    Yeh but I think people realise the offense is in place and that if the defense could play to the standard of the 2010 season then we would be in great shape to get another SB.

    Sometimes taking draft picks doesnt work out as you dont know if they can play at this level.
    Going for someone in FA is a quicker solution.

    I still dont see TT doing it.
    Though having Cullen Jenkins back would be real cool.
     
  3. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I remember the Jets were in the AFC championship repeatedly and many of their fans had the same mentality, similar to the front office I guess because they went out and were aggressive in FA. Pretty sure they didnt make the playoffs this year.

    The Eagles were in the same boat. Went out and brought in anyone that ever made a pro bowl. Aaaand no playoffs this year.

    Houston, the media said would only be able to fix the defensive issues if they grabbed Nnamdi in FA. They didnt. And they had their best season and best defense in Franchise history.

    9ers. Dont remember their big FA splash. I do remember in the 2010 season they were trying to chase down DD for a TD and now have one of the best defenses in the league.
     
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  4. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I would have "liked" the first post more than once if it were allowed. Thompson is just not going to make a big UFA splash and frankly Woodson is a Packer only because there was only one other team interested and they wanted him to play safety. Thompson did not pursue him in the first hours or days of UFA.

    I understand fans are going to speculate about big UFA signings anyway. When they do I wish, in addition to posting who they'd like the Packers to sign to a huge contract, they would include a list of current Packers they would jettison and/or not extend to make current and future cap room for the new UFA. But just like those pining for a big name UFA, I probably won't get my wish either.
     
  5. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Yes, this is the key.
     
  6. Texas9erFan

    Texas9erFan Cheesehead

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    Yeah, the Niners didn't do much in FA last year.
    It seems to me that even though both teams have what appears to be glaring holes, they're both good enough to take the best player available in the draft and be VERY selective in FA.
     
  7. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    It's not that easy just to say that the Packers played a bad game or else they'd be in the SB. The passing offense was the Packers one huge weapon, and when it failed they had nothing to fall back on.

    The Patriots played a bad game too and guess what? They're in the SB. Why? Because of their defense. (And a couple of friendly calls and some Ravens mistakes.)

    This defense does need significant improvement for this team to be a serious SB contender. If the Packers can pick up some key pieces in the draft, great, but are you going to just sit back and reassure yourself that it's all going to work out in the end?
     
  8. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    ExpatPacker, if the Packers' offense had emulated their play in the previous game against the Giants, they would have played in the NFC Championship game. Even without matching that output, they missed two wide-open TD passes! My point is IMO the Packers passing offense has to be "on" throughout a playoff run for them to win a title. The defense must improve of course, but the strength of this team is its passing offense and with limited resources and salary cap rules and the proclivities of the HC it will remain the strength of the team for the foreseeable future. If the Packers OL, particularly LT (assuming Wells returns) improves I have confidence that Rodgers and the receivers can carry that burden. IMO a team has to be playing their best ball at the end of the season to win it all and for the Packers, in addition to playing better D, that means the passing attack has to be clicking.



    As to your comment about relying upon the draft, there is plenty of evidence unrestricted free agency is anything but a cure-all. IOW, Thompson could mortgage the future cap and money-wise and still not solve the problems on D.
     
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  9. ExpatPacker

    ExpatPacker Cheesehead

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    ThxJackVainisi: I realize that the Packers stand and fall with their passing attack, but when you do not have anything else to rely on, you are skating on thin ice. The fall-off from last year's defense was staggering. Even if some of those passes weren't dropped, even if Rodgers had been a little more on target, yes we may have won. But those are all ifs. The fact is that this team was playing race-against-the-defense all season long.

    I did not say FA was a cure-all, but I want to seriously ask whether you think that the problems with the defense can be fixed with a few draft picks or whether in addition to the draft a key FA who can be obtained at something less than top dollar might help to cement an otherwise porous defense?
     
  10. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    I couldn't agree more, we have a stable of young players (40, 25 or younger) some key ones on defense should make a big jump this offseason. We will have slew of draft picks. FA will not be out of the question but TT will go for value not the CAP breakers. And with Philbin going to Miami, who knows about Flynn. I hope Collins can come back and play to his old level. But we don't need to fix alot on this D to bring it up to where it needs to be to win a championship and I fully expect TT will address these needs in the offseason.
     
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  11. JacobInFlorida

    JacobInFlorida Cheesehead

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    I really really hope Collins is able to come back, but I think it's a long shot.
     
  12. Southpaw

    Southpaw Endorphin Junkie

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    I disagree

    Free Agency is still something I feel our organization needs to take more of a part in a little more than it does. I'm not saying we need to empty our proverbial wallets and go all Philadelphia Eagles in Free Agency or paying out the *** for one guy, but we are in a "Win Now" state as a team. A piece here a piece there and we're a complete team.

    Finding a solid player that can come into our system and immediately have an impact and not break the bank, rather than drafting a position player in the 4th or 5th round or signing an UDFA that we have to develop would be more ideal.

    We can still maintain our philosophy of staying young and building through the draft.

    I hate to go back to New England, but this is what they've been doing for years. They find bargain position players, and get them a steal prices, plug them in and they are almost always effective. Did anybody know who the hell Andre Carter was before he became Patriot this year? They got that guy for almost nothing, put him into their defense and he racked up something like 1o sacks and had a career game against the Jets.

    And they never get bit in the *** financially if the players don't happen to do anything (Haynesworth).They draft well and they are constantly wheeling and dealing for picks that by the 2025 draft, they will probably have 20 first round picks.

    Staying young in the draft is a great philosophy to have as an organization, but there comes a point where your team is on the brink, and dabbling in Free Agency is a quick way to put your team over. You just have to be smart, have an eye for talent and be a good negotiator.
     
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  13. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I just can't improve on this post. Anyone who thinks we don't need to address a few things on defense also needs to learn a few things. I think being close but no cigars is unsatisfactory and that's what we will be until our defense is shored up. It needs more than a fine tuning. I'm not content with going 15-1 and bowing out in the first playoff game in our house.
     
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  14. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    I agree with you about value free agents, getting a good player that can have an impact at a good price that won't sell out our future. You are right about the Pats, they are masters at this, they are also masters about trading away players when they think they will get a good deal for them, very little sentiment. TT is the same, he doesn't let sentiment play into it. This is a business, when he let Jenkins go it was a calculated business decision, Neal was supposed to fill the hole and who could have predicted Collins would be out for the season, maybe forever. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. Just like football.
     
  15. JacobInFlorida

    JacobInFlorida Cheesehead

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    No one is against free agency, TT included. It's just you usually don't get bang for your buck in FA. Just because we're "close" shouldn't be the reason we dabble in FA, it should be because there is a player that has value for us regardless of the state of the team.
     
  16. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    This whole idea of "the Packers shouldn't/don't need to sign free agents" is ridiculous. A team has two ways to get better: the draft and free agency. If you limit yourself to just one of those, you're handicapping your team. You have to explore all options available to you to improve.
     
  17. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Two of the best players we now have on defense came via free agency, Woodson and Pickett. That was several years ago when the Packer defense was also not very good. Improving the team is the reason you dabble in free agency and I think there will be a few players out there that can indeed add value. But you have to play to find out.
     
  18. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    I'll start the laundry list:

    Albert Haynesworth
     
  19. JacobInFlorida

    JacobInFlorida Cheesehead

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    Yes, but the Packers didn't get them because they needed to fill a gaping hole. They got them because, like good organizations do, they had scouted them out and liked the upside they had for the value. It wasn't a "we need secondary player and a dlineman so lets see who is out there in free agency".
     
  20. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    Jevon Kearse
     
  21. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    Randy Moss
     
  22. Wood Chipper

    Wood Chipper Fantasy Football Guru

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    If the value is there then why shouldn't we get one or two role playing guys. They don't need to be big names like Mario Williams but I'm sure there is someone who either hasn't got the opportunity or just needs a change of scenery.
     
  23. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    Some people want the Packers to make moves in free agency just to make a move, regardless of how much sense it makes.

    Free agents don't always work out either. Just because a guy worked in one system doesn't mean he'll work out in our system. Plus they cost a significant amount more money.

    If you look at the teams who have enjoys sustained success, you find the way to build a team for long term championship success isn't through free-agency. It's through drafting well, coaching well and developing your players.
     
  24. SpartaChris

    SpartaChris Cheesehead

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    No we don't. We need to improve our pass rush. That's the only difference between last season and this season. Improve the pass rush and the rest takes care of itself.
     
  25. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    I agree the fall-off was staggering and I’ve previously posted while the loss of Jenkins and Collins and the lack of an off season contributed, I don’t think that’s the whole story. And I admitted I can’t figure out why the D fell off so far. I don’t think there’s a single Packers fan who doesn’t realize the D has to significantly improve for a title run but IMO that won’t be enough.

    In a previous post you wrote, “The passing offense was the Packers one huge weapon, and when it failed they had nothing to fall back on.” IMO if the passing offense fails in the playoffs the Packers won’t have enough to fall back on even if the defense is as good as it was last year. So yes, the D has to improve but even if it does, Rodgers and company can’t afford to have an off day and if they do it’ll be ‘wait ‘til next year’ again IMO. If Rodgers is red hot, they can overcome a mediocre D effort, but if Rodgers and the offense repeat their performance against the Giants in playoffs, I think they’ll lose. I’m fine with that, BTW. I have confidence in Rodgers and the receivers if the LT spot is solidified.

    That’s a fair question. Yes, I think the D can improve enough in the draft and with the improvement of some youngsters on the roster. We have plenty of time to go position by position and I’m not going to do that now, but for example: So’oto and Lattimore have a chance to be the answer opposite Matthews with an off season of strength training and digging into the D scheme even more. Neither should be counted upon to be the answer but both will be in the mix and both have a chance. And the Packers already have the players on the roster to upgrade Hawk’s spot inside IMO. Thompson’s way is not just the draft: It’s draft and develop.


    Some Packers fans think the main reason for the demise of the defense was the loss of Jenkins of Collins. Its possible Collins can return. I put the odds at less than 50/50, but it’s possible and if it happens the D instantly improves. If the Packers are able to do a tag-and-trade with Flynn they’d have four picks in the first 92 players. Do I think it’s possible they find a pass rusher on the order of Jenkins with one of those picks? Yes I do. And they have a chance even if they just have their three picks in the top 92.

    Thompson certainly could go into UFA to find a roll player or two. I think a DL would make sense to compete for a spot in the rotation. But those expecting him to sign a star UFA OLB or DE are probably going to be disappointed. He’d rather extend a couple of core players while continuing to manage the Packers cap situation and cash.
     

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