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Whats Wrong With Clay Matthews?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. Forget Favre

    Forget Favre Cheesehead

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    Things change.
     
  2. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I think we are saying the same thing. No one seems to get that its not about sack totals though or that he isnt always double or triple teamed.
     
  3. Havners Heroes

    Havners Heroes Cheesehead

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    I think the people over at Cheesehead TV are sort of overreacting on both sides here, from what I've read of this thread though, people here seem to be a little more open to the possibility that maybe Matthews just isn't playing as well as he did last year.

    Don't get me wrong-- Matthews is still the best and most important player on our defense. He consistently draws double teams, which has freed up guys like Jarius Wynn to come in and make big sacks. His presence alone is a weapon. But he doesn't seem to have the same pass rush burst he did at the beginning of last year. I'm not sure if it's injury or if it's his weight loss that has been the bigger factor, but the OP is right-- he IS getting beat by below average tackles a lot in one-on-one situations.

    I'm not worried at all, I think Clay's going to be fine and by the end of the season his numbers will be back up. But let's not forget that last season, he was playing at defensive player of the year level. That's a lot to live up to, and he's only in his third season. He can be a great defensive player without being the absolute best defensive player.
     
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  4. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    Ok,
    Next week I am going to pay attention to the one on ones.
     
  5. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I have noticed that Clay has gotten in the back field more then usual...

    One thing that might be an issue, is Woodson isnt blitzing as much?? It makes no sense as to him not getting through with that excuse, but might be a factor some how?
     
  6. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Yes, when it's generic it's moronic.

    You'll never see Bob McGinn give such response. He watches the film and grades plays. He says Matthews had one of his best games last game, but he named the reason, which was his elite run play. He did not say Matthews played at an elite level playing the pass, though he listed the very number of pressures he had.

    I disagree with McGinn in that I think the pass rush for the OLB is more important than the run stop, so my and his opinions regarding "one of the best" games of Matthews differ.

    But I absolutely respect his opinion, because it's based on something.

    This Vic guy just says something with effect, with no substance whatsoever. Now, if you consider he's PAID BY THE PACKERS to give this kind of opinion, you are right.

    Moronic is too bland of a word to describe it.
     
  7. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    That really is all I ask. And I really hope we see more production from him.

    He'll be going against 2nd round pick Orlando Franklin. Haven't seen any Broncos game, let alone pay attention to his play, so I have no idea what kind of player he is...
     
  8. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Speaking of Woodson how does he stack up after three games vs. last year? I know he has two interceptions and 10 tackles. He also has got beat some this season and has some holds called on him. I may be wrong but I don't think he has played quite as well.
     
  9. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Woodson is playing well. Haven't watched him every play of every game, but he was a guy I was paying attention to in these 3 games.

    That 2009 season is not going to be repeated by any CB ever, forget it. Using it as measure stick is just so unfair.

    What I've noticed from him, it's not his speed he has lost, he can cover guys like Knox and Hester deep with no problems. It's his quickness he has lost. He is losing in short yardage. When he can get his hands on the receiver, he's excellent, one of if not the best in the league (Revis is great at that) in jamming guys. But when guys get free releases, he cannot make up for that anymore as he used to.

    He is losing some coverages, but not too many that it's a real problem. And the playmaking ability is still in there, he already has, like you said, 2 ints, 1 fumble recovered and 10 tackles. He's not getting as much sacks anymore because teams are focusing on him when he's at the LOS and letting the clock run down, so he has to commit.

    BTW, speaking of stats, take a look at this line:
    27 tackles (11th), 1 sack, 1 FF, 3 Ints, 7 pass deflections.

    That's Morgan Burnett.
     
  10. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I think that assessment is right on. I wasn't looking at a comparison to 2009 but 2010.

    I think there are a lot of reasons the defense hasn't played as well so far. But, there were times last season the defense didn't fare well. The D got on a roll toward the end of the season and especially during the playoffs.

    Oh and Burnett is playing at a pro bowl level.
     
  11. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    As will I. I think that's the best direction to go from here. That's the one argument I have no answer for whatsoever. That shouldn't be happening, Clay should be blowing fools up one on one.
     
  12. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Jack mentioned this above, but Bob McGinn is the most respected and unbiased Packer reporter. He makes Nagler look like Pee-Wee Herman. Nagler is a nobody anyway. How does his name enter in this thread anyway?

    Matthews is fine. Some people think a game in which he gets 2 sacks but doesn't make any other plays, is a great game. He played great this week, and there are more to his position than registering sacks.

    Here's what, again, McGinn wrote after replaying and replaying, focusing in, on Matthews. I believe Bob gets film that we didn't see from Fox, which only focuses in on the football. Except that punt.
    As far as winning the one-on-ones consistently go:
    The OT is supposed to win the one-on-ones most of the time.

    We passed, what, 40 times in the Super Bowl. How many times did James Harrison win his one-on-one against Clifton?
    How many times did Woodley win his one-on-one versus Bulaga?
     
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  13. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Because YOU just said it...

    Absolutely there is. Like winning 1-on-1s.

    Already talked about McGinn.

    This is simply not true. And just a generical response. Are you Vic? Seriously, that is just not true. Look at what Jared Allen and Freeney did this week and then come tell me with a straight face that the OT is supposed to win most of the time. Specially considering the kind of OTs Matthews has faced.

    In fact, you don't need to look at Allen and Freeney. Look at Matthews last year. He FORCED Wiston Justice to be benched, because he was DEMOLISHING Justice ALL THE TIME.

    Bulaga and Clifton played amazing games. Bulaga IIRC actually allowed 3 pressures, but he was playing against Woodley. And Clifton was a MONSTER the last 6 games of last season. When I say MONSTER, I mean best football of his life. He didn't allow a single pressure in the SB.

    But we're talking about Bulaga, a 1st round pick, and Clifton playing his best, and he has the best feet in pass blocking I've seen. We're talking about great OTs.

    Omiyale is not even serviceable.
     
  14. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    In training camp 1-on-1's, I think Marshall Newhouse was like 24-0.
    The offensive tackle should win the majority of the 1-on-1's.
    Winston Justice? He's horrible. He gave up 7 or 8 sacks one night as an Eagle against Osi Umenyiora.

    Trust us, trust McGinn's detailed analysis of the game: Matthews played a great game.
    He didn't demolish his guy for a bunch of sacks though, that's true. But on the 56% of the passes he was single-teamed, he still had a bunch of pressures, knock downs, and forced early throws on others.
     
  15. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Possible (I say no, but this is possible) teams have figured out how to stop him? Again not likely but it is possible..
     
  16. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

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    This is a cut from; Journal Sentinel Online in an article called "Bulaga's Status Uncertain for Packers Next Game"

    "Matthews watch: Through two games last season, Clay Matthews had six sacks. Three games into 2011, he has just one.
    While Matthews was particularly strong against the run Sunday, forcing several runs inside, he had zero sacks and one quarterback hit. Defensive coordinator Dom Capers noted that the Packers often rushed just three players Sunday, resulting in several double-teams on Matthews.
    "I told Clay today he just needs to continue to play like he's playing," Capers said. "Those things will come. He's playing outstanding football right now. You get into games, and the Bears yesterday were very protection conscious, looking for a lot of pressure out of us. When teams do that, we drop a lot.
    "Again, it comes down to doing the things that you feel is going to help you win a football game. Clay knows that. Clay had three, four, five just outstanding plays yesterday where they were trying to pull a guard and block him and he just out-athleticed the guy and went and made a play for us."

    So I would say it's partly scheme oriented with Capers calling the shots. On many of the defenses with Caper's 3-4 Clay has to decide when the play starts whether he is going to rush or drop into coverage or stop the run. That's a lot to process and he may be hesitating a bit to figure out what to do. Remember last year he was always tearing in and sometimes getting burnt on the run. Perhaps he's maturing and looking for a balance between blasting in and stopping the run.

    But if Coach Capers says Matthews is playing outstanding football right now, then I'd say there is nothing wrong with Clay other than the fact that he needs a haircut!
     
  17. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    IMO calling people names reflects more on the name-caller than the person being maligned. Obviously there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with something written or said – even vehemently. Of course everyone has the right to do it but IMO it’s unnecessary and counterproductive.

    I haven’t read much of either Nagler or Ketchman. Nothing against either I just have other authors/sources ahead of them when it comes to Packers media. But I do know Nagler co-created and helps run Cheesehead TV. And a year ago he was the subject of a NY Times article which said Cheesehead TV was averaging 152,000 visits and 370,000 page views a month. Not that I believe everything (or much of anything) that is written in the NY Times but that’s still not bad for a “nobody” IMO. The only thing I know about Ketchman is he’s made a living writing about the NFL. He first covered the Steelers as a reporter for about 20 years, then went to work for the Jaguars and then of course the Packers. Pretty good way for a “moron” who knows nothing about football to make a living for nearly 40 years, don’t you think? I think what he writes should be viewed with the fact that he’s employed by the Packers in mind, but what little I’ve read of his work, he doesn’t strike me as moronic in the least. And the comment in question was part of a chat, wasn't it?

    Regarding Woodson: When Williams was lost to injury, Woodson’s role changed. And when Williams returned against Chicago, Woodson also played some safety to spell Peprah. We should remember it was Williams shut-down-corner play combined with Shields’ surprising contributions last season which allowed Capers the freedom to have Woodson assume his playmaking rover spot. As the DBs cover better, get and stay healthy, I expect Woodson will resume his rover role on a more regular basis.

    Interesting the different numbers we’re getting regarding QB hits. What McGinn told us was against the Bears Matthews was in the Chicago offensive backfield 10 times. 7.5 of those times he was rushing the passer, forcing him to hurry his throws and/or knocking him down.
     
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  18. DevilDon

    DevilDon Inclement Weather Fan

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    Thanks for stealing my thunder Croak and ThxJack. I was going to point out that the Packers ranked very highly against the run in 2009, fell off last year and are number 1 so far this year. I think stopping the run has become job #1 so far this season.
    I think Capers' D is pretty complex, you know, the secondary blitzes, the LBs blitz, the Dline blitzes, all positions play the run, all positions even cover the pass. When you have Dlinemen making pick 6's you know something is going on.
    I believe with the loss of Tramon and then Collins there is some trade off in rush versus other duties. With the threat of a Woodson blitz, the Olineman has to kinda split attention, or the RB or TE. He's been playing corner and safety much more instead of the nickel slot. Loss of inside pass rush has got to hurt, whether it's Neal or Jenkins. Wynn is doing fine but how much more could one of those players have helped. A consistent threat from the other LB spot would help, Walden is not our best rusher over there.
    I'm not arguing whether Clay has had a drop off in physical ability, I've just seen no indication of it. If one on one matchups against average Olinemen is the best indicator of play, you'd think they would have come up with a stat for it.
    One thing is for certain, the D can come together more over the next few games and hoping we don't have more injuries to refit the unit and this is one very, very talented football team.
     
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  19. PackersFanfromCali80

    PackersFanfromCali80 Cheesehead

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    McCarthy also said today that Clay has graded high these past 3 games. So, if his coach and his DC are saying he's playing fine...those are the only two opinions I need to worry about.

    I think So'oto could actually be a great help when he gets back on the field. Walden has been unimpressive so far.
     
  20. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    According to the new article and front page cover of this months Muscle and Fitness, not a damn thing is wrong with him.
     
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  21. realcaliforniacheese

    realcaliforniacheese A-Rods Boss

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    It's all air brush.. I could look like that.
     
  22. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Smiley face here.:)
     
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  23. Packman Chant

    Packman Chant Lambeau West

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    Agree with everyone's comments, nothing is wrong with him...honestly the season he had last year is helping the D-line this season...hes constantly double or even triple teamed. We've been able to pressure the QB so well and force interceptions. Clay has been getting to the QB still as well as others because of his presence. Clay is STILL the man.
     
  24. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Jack, that is a heckuva memory to remember stats like that, from an article, a year ago. In the NY Times mind you. Impressive to remember random numbers like that.

    It appears everyone now understands despite Clay's sack #'s being down, he's been playing great still.
    I also saw that magazine cover today. Clay definitely loves the publicity.
     
  25. Croak

    Croak Terminally twisted.

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    I get a kick out of watching him photobomb his teammates interviews and picture ops.
     

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