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Whats Wrong With Clay Matthews?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. Powarun

    Powarun Big Bay Blues fan

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    Me too, that was a pretty solid answer by Kitten.

    Maybe Clay is just not feeling it yet, and feels he is doing a good enough job as it is and lost the hunger to do better. He may be up on a high horse and needs to get taken down, just to fight for it back. A-Rod loves criticism because he wants to prove the critics wrong. Not saying what feeds A-Rod can also feed Matthews, but Ivo may be right that we may be stand up for Matthews when he isn't doing his best like we would Favre, yet its early in the season, and hell Matthews may have a slump season this season and most of us won't be noticing it till its obvious.

    I can say last night I thought our run defense was good, then I saw the Colts and the way their defense played was lights out. Seeing Rothlisberger running from one guy and getting nailed by the guy coming directly at him was so great, I was thinking, why hasn't our D did something like that. And the announcers said something about the Colts wanted to prove in primetime that they are the Colts, not the Peyton Mannings on the national stage, and I can say the Colts made their point. On defence anyway, offense was a joke.
     
  2. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Im a little surprised at this debate. I will admit I didn't see the Carolina game and wasnt able to watch other two games closely, but my impression of Clay is that he is better than last year. I think wynn is better than Jenkins but our olb is a downgrade from last year. I do think dom is using him different lately with less blitzing to his side. does this account for negative fan impression?
     
  3. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I am glad I am not the only one who isnt blinded by the fact that he is struggling against below average tackles one on one.

    I hate to say it but it could be clay getting off of HGH with the new testing. He freely admits he lost 10 pounds in the offseason. The only reason I doubt its HGH is bc I dont see the same drop off across the league from players with similar characteristics.

    My guess is he has or had an injury the packers covered up. Then again I know the players around him have been giving him a hard time about his lack of success against the 1 on 1 match ups.

    I expect clay to dominate tackles, good and especially bad ones. Kind of what you saw from Jared Allen on Sunday for example.
     
  4. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Look, it's no mystery, or conspiracy. Let me break it down.

    #1- Matthews got a ton of sacks early last year, then his sack pace slowed down. Why?
    #2- An offensive line coach/ coodinator A) can contain ANY OLB if they are determined enough. Just like B)our defense CAN shut down Forte if we are determined enough. What that requires is A) no other threat on the other side at OLB, B) No dangerous receivers or, importantly, no dangerous TE named Greg Olsen who always killed us. Thanks Mike Martz.
    #3- No Cullen Jenkins for OLs to have to commit 2 guys to blocking. He kills single blocking on obvious passing downs.

    As long as Matthews stays healthy enough to be on the field, he's impacting the game whether the sacks come or not.
    He doesn't have a Robert Mathis or Lamar Woodley opposite him like Dwight Freeney and James Harrison have.

    If Vic So'oto doesn't upgrade that pass rush this year, Teddy is going to HAVE to invest at OLB high in the 2012 draft. I hope Capers makes that happen. But I really hope So'oto makes that a non-issue! Maybe Zombo can too.
     
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  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    against the run and rushing the passer are two different jobs.... that seems to be lost for some people. While he has gotten much better like RS said against the run, its the rushing the passer I am talking about. They are not the same.
     
  6. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I dont really get the whole "he is getting double and triple teamed" argument, because its simple not true for the majority of the snaps.
     
  7. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    It is on obvious passing downs. And who knows what the O's plan is on the plays where Matthews drops and/or reads? he does that on at least half his snaps.
     
  8. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Dwight Freeney, Julius Peppers, James Harrison, Terrell Suggs, Shawne Merriman, even DeMarcus Ware have all gone thru some long dry-spells on sacks.
    I remember chatting with Cliff Christl a few years ago during a point when Freeney was struggling.

    Also, Peppers was way down before he got to the Bears.
    Merriman's was drug-related, and injury-related. Let's hope Clay isn't similar. I don't think it is. But I don't like weight-losses.

    D-coordinators and QBs and OL's are much more aware of the Claymaker right now, which makes it a little harder.
    However, it also leads to bad passes and some picks.
    Once he/we got pressure on Cam Newton, you saw picks donated. Same with Cutler. Those guys are scared of getting drilled and when the heat comes, they throw it sooner..... we used to have a guy who would do that all the time, especially in the playoffs.
     
  9. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    I take comfort in knowing he is being coached by one of the best. I just worry he isnt listening to him. That was an issue his rookie year the first few games.
     
  10. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    He shouldn't be getting beat one on one by OL. If that's happening, then something else is going on. I have a funny feeling he was injured worse last year than they let on. As for him not rushing the passer as effectively, I blame that on the other team coordinating their O Line specifically for him based on what he did last year.

    I think he is still as good as last year, but in a different way then last year. They had to adapt their strategy, I don't know. They can't get away with what they did last year. They had to change something up and with no camp in the off season, it may be hurting us a little. Offensive line coordinators are too smart for that and nobody wants their QB to get whacked. Maybe their game mode is to protect their QB from Matthews at all cost. It's also possible he made too big of a showing last year and Capers reined him in a little so he doesn't make a target out of himself. Who really knows? Hopefully he will make the plays everybody seems to want, but ask yourself this. Even playing as he is, would you rather have him on your team or against you?
     
  11. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Are you guys watching him and the chaos that constantly surrounds him? That's him doing his job. Jeez.
     
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  12. Pat4DaPack

    Pat4DaPack Cheesehead

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    Hard to get anything going when there is usually 2 people on you. However, that should open up other players to make plays.
     
  13. PackersFanfromCali80

    PackersFanfromCali80 Cheesehead

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    Everybody is a quarterback from the couch. Somebody else has got to help Matthews get pressure on the QB. Walden has done nothing. Wynn has had a decent first 3 games. I also haven't seen BJ Raji up in the backfield either. He will get his sacks because great players always do but instead of looking for glamour stats, watch Clay throughout the game. His motor never stops. Ask Jay Cutler or Matt Forte if there is something wrong with Matthews.


    I don't understand what "fans" of the Packers want from Clay. He is not 100% but he disrupted plenty of the Bears' attempts at offense yesterday.
     
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  14. JoshuaRHuffman

    JoshuaRHuffman Cheesehead

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    Jay Glazer must have cut his hair and his strengths didn't return when it grew back. Bastard.

    Matthews is the least of my concerns. I'd like to know what's wrong (or different) with the linebackers, especially Erik Walden. They just seem... slower.
     
  15. 2411t

    2411t Cheesehead

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    Instead of asking what's wrong with Clay, ask yourself WTH is wrong with all our other pass rushers. I've seen Clay TRIPLE teamed this past Sunday, and he still drew penalties for us.
     
  16. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Aaron Nagler (who knows this team as well as anyone that isnt employeed by GBPG or JS) - Clay Matthews is either hurt or not as good as we think he is.

    I know I am not the only one that has noticed the pass rush drop off. (that doesnt mean sacks, that means getting beat by below avg tackles week after week while one on one)
     
  17. Jordyruns

    Jordyruns Cheesehead

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    From what I see, he runs upfield, and away from the QB, where early last year he would beat the OT and get to the QB without running upfield. Raji, Wynn, and Pickett are doing tons of work this year and is the main reason the Pack is doing so well on D. I was affriad of the D-line, and Oline for that matter, hurting us this year but they have been some of the more consistant units we have had this year, imo. Even with Bulaga and Neal out they have still played very well all year. The Pack just continue to surprise me in all ways, I love it!
     
  18. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Aaron Nagler also sees himself as a media type, and media types make splashy comments to get people talking about them. He likes it when people talk about the Packers, but he loves it when people talk about him. I think Nagler knows his stuff, but I also trust my own eyes rather than just jumping aboard bandwagon every time some media type makes a provocative statement.
     
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  19. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    Of course trust yourself. But this isnt a popular wagon to be on. Packer fans have a hard time critiquing their favorite players it seems. Far from NYC.

    I have never seen Nagler say anything I would consider splashy. But if you can give a few examples it would be great.

    I dont know Nagler personally and dont think I have ever actually talked to him so I have no horse in this race.
     
  20. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I'd be more inclined to critique a player if we had some more to go on. Right now we don't really even know if there is anything going on at all. We have a bunch of hypothetical theories, some supporting evidence but not nearly enough to cause this much doubt. Clay getting beat one on one may be a problem but it may not be what you think. Give him the benefit of the doubt. I have tremendous faith and it is not blind, it's earned. I will proudly fly my homer flag, I just refuse criticize any of my players without substantial proof. Until Clay himself, Capers, MM, TT or anyone affiliated with the Packers makes a statement in regards to this matter, I'm going to treat this as speculation. We can sit here and come up with reasons until our cheesehead hats start to grow mold spores, we aren't getting anywhere. Lets maybe give it say 3 or 4 more weeks, watch him closely and reevaluate the situation then perhaps?
     
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  21. YouFrgotPoland

    YouFrgotPoland Cheesehead

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    I don't know why people are afraid of any possible criticism of Clay. I know I love the guy and I don't like to have to say anything negative about him, but to blindly defend him and get upset at any possible accusations is unnecessary. Yes Clay is getting double and triple teamed, yes he is freeing up blockers so other pass rushers can get in, yes he is drawing offensive coordinators attention, and yes he is better against the run. But he also has had plenty of one on one's with tackles he would have eaten for breakfast last year and simply is not capitalizing. Like I said earlier, I'm thinking he is a bit banged up and its hampering him.
     
  22. Mr. StyleZ

    Mr. StyleZ Banned Banned

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    Nagler is cool on Packer Transplants, but can be a very arrogant d-bag on twitter. That being said, anything he usually says is reliable.
     
  23. Mr. StyleZ

    Mr. StyleZ Banned Banned

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    I don't think this is the real kitten. :cautious:
     
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  24. Kitten

    Kitten Feline Cheesehead Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Maybe I'm possessed. I'm feelin a bit frisky today and now it's after midnight. I'm also in the mood to argue and this is a thread I can really sink my fangs into. I was actually hoping somebody would put up a thread about what's wrong with Starks, but nobody did. This thread has inspired good debate. One of the most lively ones I've seen here in a while. People sure are quick to defend their players. LOL.
     
  25. Mr. StyleZ

    Mr. StyleZ Banned Banned

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    Your debating skills are impressive. :inlove: I can't even understand half the crap you're saying :p j/k
     
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