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What would you give up for Revis?

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by ivo610, Jan 23, 2013.

  1. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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  2. AmishMafia

    AmishMafia Cheesehead

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    Character does not equal compatibility.

    My recollection is that Woodson was very respected and a leader of the Oakland defense. He had an excellent work ethic and helped his teammates as he could. Al Davis did not like him for whatever reason. Al didn't like Marcus Allen either the crazy old bastard.
     
  3. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Of all 31 other teams in the NFL, we should be the last team mentioned for Revis.
    Has anyone noticed Thompson's MO?
    He doesn't do this!!!
    Especially when he has to make some very difficult financial decisions coming up involving Matthews, Rodgers, Woodson, Jennings, and Finley. Sam Shields as well is a RFA and he played well.

    Plus CB is probably our deepest position.
    No way Revis Island.
     
  4. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  5. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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  6. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    We also had "interest" in Tebow Lynch and Moss. This will end the same way.
     
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  7. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

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    And Asomugha.
     
  8. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    IMO: The odds of Thompson signing a big name UFA are slim. The odds of his giving up a first rounder, let alone more than a first round pick, for a big name player is slimmer. Finally the odds of his doing so for a big name player coming off an injury and requiring a blockbuster extension are microscopic.

    (I think it was) HardRightEdge made what I think is the most salient point early on this thread. If he’s healthy of course Revis would upgrade the CB position but that’s not the weakest part of the D, so why incur an extraordinary cost to upgrade a position of relative strength? If Thompson is going to venture into UFA I hope it would be for a pass rusher or a safety. I’m higher on Perry’s potential than some here but even so the need for another effective pass rusher is obvious. If Thompson veers away from his MO by acquiring a veteran pass rusher that would mean more to the D than Revis IMO. The need for a safety may not be as apparent but it’s a close second IMO. Burnett was fine last season. McGinn gave him a B- and noted he was one of two players in the league on D that played every snap from scrimmage. But he has not been the consistent playmaking safety many of us were hoping for. Perhaps it’s because he hasn’t had a dependable partner at the other safety spot. If the Packers could acquire that player not only would that instantly improve the D from that spot but Burnett’s value would also increase: As McGinn notes he was the top blitzer among DBs with one pressure every 4.3 snaps. Another dependable safety would free up Capers to send Burnett more.

    BTW, as I remember it one of the reasons only two teams seriously pursued Woodson was injury concerns. The other was his character. He was a malcontent in Oakland and actually went nose-to-nose with McCarthy shortly after arriving in Green Bay until they came to an understanding. Woodson became the leader he is in Green Bay.
     
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  9. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    So Ted has taken a chance on a talented corner with injury concerns and character concerns before.

    I think shipping tramon out and Revis in would change the defense in many ways. More safety help at the line, more blitzing ect
     
  10. ThxJackVainisi

    ThxJackVainisi Lifelong Packers Fanatic

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    Yes he did but 1) he didn’t give up a single precious draft choice to do so and 2) he did not get involved in a bidding war: When he acquired Woodson only the Buccaneers and Packers were interested and the Bucs wanted him as a safety. Only the Packers were willing to sign him as a CB.
     
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  11. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    Correct, plus Thompson had cleared out a ton of cap space in the previous year, and he had money to spend. Remember, Teddy first tried to purchase Lavar Arrington for about $50 million, but the ****** only used us to get more from the NFC East team..... he never had any intention of coming to Green Bay.
    Ironically, just by doing that to Green Bay, he suffered the Packer injury jinx, and blew out his achilles tendon right away and missed most of the season, and I believe that was it for Lavar's career.

    Woodson was a gift on a silver platter to us because nobody else thought he had it left, he'd been injured a lot.
    Other gifts on silver platters offered to us: Barry Sanders, Randy Moss, Aaron Rodgers.
     
  12. HyponGrey

    HyponGrey Caseus Locutus Est

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    Yet we passed on Barry and Randy. :whistling:
     
  13. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Yes, it was me who commented on the relative strength of the CB position.

    I would add a few notes regarding the safety position. One of the weaknesses of this defense going back to last season is a lack of physical presence in the middle of the field, made more acute with Bishop's injury. The young #2 safeties are typical of several positions on this team...they have some strengths but are not well rounded, 3 down players. Jennings seems reasonably decent in coverage, but is not particularly effective in run support and is hardly a physical presence. McMillan is more physical and decent in run support, but often looks clueless in zone coverage.

    Then we have the Woodson conundrum. Even if we set aside the money issue, I don't see him as a good compliment to Burnett. And with gambling in his nature coupled with eroded physical skills, he may have crossed the fine lie from "playmaker" to "undisciplined" which, after all, are differentiated by the proof in the putting. Gambling and winning is energizing; gambling and losing more often than you win hurts unit cohesion. With Hayward emerging as a very good nickel corner, I'm having a hard time seeing Woodson's place in 2013. I had hoped his presence at safety at least for this season's playoffs would provide some energizing leadership, but all we got was undisciplined confusion, regardless of Caper's culpability. A renegotiation would help solve some unrelated issues, but wouldn't do anything for defensive improvement.

    A solid 3 down safety who is assignment-sure and can lay some wood from time to time would be a valuable addition.
     
  14. ivo610

    ivo610 Cheesehead

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    If we signed Barry we would have been the Lions of the 90s. Not bad enough to fire everyone in the front office, no ron wolf. Not good enough to actually compete.
     
  15. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    I have no argument with your post. I just want to add that it seems to me we have a # of needs. That safety you mentioned. An inside LB to compliment Bishop. Hawk just isn't athletic enough at this point though he had a decent year. But he isn't the answer.

    Then on the DL we have Worthy coming off an acl and may see little of him. Even what we saw didn't excite me. So we then fall back to CJ who is good against the run, and Neal who is really too small too be an every down player. As McGinn said he's a small man in a big man's game. Pickett is getting long in the tooth. We really need some big bodies there.

    Then there's the outside LB. Is Perry the answer there? All I saw out of him was a bull rush. He didn't demonstrate to me he could play without his hand down. And that's just defense.

    Over on the offensive side we have question marks with Bulaga and Newhouse. I like what I saw out of Barclay but I remain dubious that we have a left tackle on the squad. Lang is decent but a better player sure would help. I think EDS is a backup at center.

    All those positions are question marks in my opinion, and improvement at any of them would be a valuable addition.
     
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  16. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    The problem with Revis, besides the injury, is that he'll want $14M - $16M/year. I can understand why the Jets want to trade him. A team with no quarterback or playmakers has no room for a $16M/year cornerback. I would love to have the guy, but it's not feasible. If the Jets would like Charles Woodson and Tramon Williams, the cap room might add up.
     
  17. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    If he expects that then lot's of luck for a guy coming off an acl.
     
  18. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Which brings to mind the following idea: if Jennings, Woodson AND Finley are gone, and you throw in Saturday (who is retiring) and Driver (who will retire), that's about $28 mil lopped off this season's salary cap...that would indicate TT is teeing up for a major free agent signing, probably for a defensive playmaker/leader to fill Woodson's role (or Collins' role if you prefer), Rodgers/Matthews future contracts notwithstanding.

    I have a very hard time seeing Revis as that guy for the previously stated reasons.

    We'll just have to get further along toward the start of the league year in March when roster bonuses come due and free agency signings can begin...which all happens on March 12 if I'm not mistaken. Finley has a roster bonus of $3.5 mil; Woodson's is $2.5 mil. We'll know by March 12 if the intent is keep them as is (though that's hard to envision for both), renegotiate them or release them.
     
  19. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I mostly agree with all that, with a couple of quibbles.

    First, McGinn's comment that Neal is a "small man in a big man's game" doesn't make much sense on the face of it. He's listed at 6'3", 294 lbs. which is in line with the prototype 3-4 DEs who slide inside in nickel or 4-3 hybrid sets...Justin Smith is listed at 6'4, 285 lbs.; J.J. Watt is listed at 6'5, 295 lbs. I did not see McGinn's comments or the color he may have provided, but if one want's to argue he's not as strong as his size would indicate, that might be a point of discussion. His suspension was for Adderall, not steroids, so I don't think he shrunk below his listed weight. If there is a problem, it's not his size.

    Personally, I think Neal might have some upside...you don't know where he'll top out until the improvement stops (see Walden 2012, for example). This is not to say we shouldn't be looking for a DE with a balance of run/pass skills fairly high on the priority list...Pickett's only got one year left, Wilson's one-dimensional. But the guy doesn't have to be a 340 lb. NT posing as a DE. This looks like a very deep draft at D-Line...I could see us go there in the first round if the right player is left on the board, depending on other personnel moves in the interim.

    Second, I think the enthusiasm for Barclay is overdone. He's clearly a good run blocker, but he is suspect in pass protection. He got a fair amount of help in pass pro, but when he didn't the outcomes were on balance not so favorable. I would say his natural position is G where his vulnerabilities pass blocking in space are not relevant. Given the ever present limitations of the salary cap, he'll be valuable as a G/RT backup, something you could not definitively point to going into 2012, and nothing to sneeze at.

    Bulaga showed steady progress over his first 2 years to Pro Bowl-caliber RT status. So, he has a couple of bad games early, then gets hurt, and I read frequent calls for his demotion in this forum...when feeling kindly, I'd call that a knee jerk reaction; when feeling less kindly I'd call it ludicrous.

    I do agree that LT is an open book, and there's some press speculation that Bulaga might move to LT which seems to be an annual event that doesn't have a lot of merit, though more merit than seeing him replaced by Barclay, not that that's saying much.
     
  20. 13 Times Champs

    13 Times Champs Cheesehead

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    Neal has some ability to rush the passer but too often I saw him just get smashed at the line of scrimmage. Whether it's his size or strength he doesn't hold his own there. McGinn commented on his height at 6-3. Height wise that is the minimum for a DE in in a 3-4. You like for them to be taller. I think what we see with Neal is what we get. He won't be effective enough in a base defense.

    Regarding Barclay I think it's reasonable to expect continued improvement. He shows tenacity and already can run block. He showed improvement in his pass blocking as he got more playing time. I think in the offseason he will work on his pass blocking more and be a different player.
     
  21. PSG

    PSG Cheesehead

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    As someone who has to play against Revis twice a year, I'd be willing to give up no more than a 1st. He's good. Really good. But he is slightly over-rated, probably because he plays in NYC.
     
  22. FrankRizzo

    FrankRizzo Cheesehead

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    I believe the amount of money that it's going to take to lock up Matthews, Rodgers, and perhaps Raji is going to take the bulk of those dollars.
    Don't forget, if losing Jennings and Driver aren't change enough, Sam I Am Shields is due for a nice raise as well.

    I'd like to trim some $ by releasing Crosby for a better, younger, cheaper kicker.
    The Vikings got Blair Walsh with pick 175 last year. A 5th round kicker is a lot cheaper than what we are paying Crosby.
    He's getting paid enough that he should be closer to a Pro Bowl kicker, not the stiff that he is.
     
  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I reckon Rodgers/Matthews/Raji will cost about $20 mil per year over what they're getting now, and the cap hit is likely to be back loaded to some degree with signing bonuses. While I'm an unabashed fan of Shield's game, he's in the unenviable position of being a restricted free agent. They could hit him with a first round tender at a cost of $2.9 mil; a second round tender would be about $2 mil. A tender rather than a long term deal probably makes sense to see if he can put back-to-back all-around good seasons together before making a larger commitment.

    There's still room to bring in an impact player if we part ways will all of the high $ guys mentioned earlier.

    I think we should at least bring a kicker into camp for competition. Over the course his career, with the exception of an impressive streak spanning parts of two seasons, Crosby has been at best an average NFL kicker, and a case can be made that he's been weaker than average compared to the guys in the league today (most of whom populate the top of the all-time % leader list).

    Are we in some kind of freakish golden age of kicking (both PK and P), where a mass of great talent happened to be compressed in a few years? Or has the state of art advanced over the last decade? I'm inclined to think the latter.
     
  24. 7thFloorRA

    7thFloorRA Cheesehead

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    I am becoming more intrigued by this possible trade.

    A tag and trade of jennings plus tramon for Revis and a pick. Cut woodson and then there should be some money to do something with revis.
     
  25. NelsonsLongCatch

    NelsonsLongCatch Cheesehead

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    Players get paid on reputation all the time. Would you be shocked if a team like Jacksonville or Tennessee with no marketable stars paid him a ton of money?
     

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