WHAT was the Biggests reason for this Loss? [Merged Threads]

[pack_in_black]

McCarthy got away from what he was doing, and it had ZERO to do with what the Bears were doing on Defense.

The Bears changed in the 2nd half, and MM was calling plays according to their set. Here's MM's quote-

(What adjustments did the Bears make?)
The Bears came out and played us every single snap the second half in two-deep. We had excellent opportunities to run the football. I'm disappointed in our run game, frankly, in the second half - especially the way we ran the ball in the first half. I need to look at the film. The penalties, we had twice as many penalties as our opponent, mostly in the second half, long down and distance. I thought it was a totally sloppy no-rhythmic football game. It totally flipped from the first half. I thought in the first half that our tempo was great. We came out of the gate, went right down the field and scored. I thought we were going to have a big night on offense. You have to give credit to Chicago. They played stingy run defense. Their run defense was better than our run offense in the second half. It was a big part of their success because we didn't move the ball very well.

This one is all on MM. He let his players and his emotions take over and the team fed off of it.

You think that Jones killing two early drives and Woodson handing the ball back to the Bears after we'd stopped them, and Brett giving it to Urlacher inside the 30 is MM's fault? For being emotional? I fail to see the logic there.

 

[warhawk]

All of the Above anyone?

James Jones played poorly for the first time in his career.

Favre made one mistake all game long and it basically gave the Bears 7 points.

McCarthy coached a poor game. One of the worse of his career.

Woodson fumbles the ball. The reason why he's returning for us is he is good at taking care of it.

PENALTIES

The Packers play like this and they'll lose to any team in the league. Rams, Bills, Jets, and Dolphins. Yet they still almost beat the Bears. Packers beat the Packers in this game.

I agree with everything other than MM. He saw cover two with seven in the box and they should have been able to run it better than they did. He said he was extremely disappointed with the run offense in the second half as I think he saw the run opportunity there.

As a coach you call what the other team gives you. From there it's up to the players to get it done. I think there was a letdown in intensity and focus out there and execution never got back on track.

He would have been wrong to go against the front he saw and try to force the passing game when they were giving us the run. We just simply didn't perform.

The cover 2 has holes. You can throw into a cover 2 all day. In fact it is a rather vanilla defense. Find a pocket and sit down. The Bears didn't change thier gameplan at half-time. McCarthy changed his. I'm not sure what game you were watching. McCarthy got away from what he was doing, and it had ZERO to do with what the Bears were doing on Defense.

This one is all on MM. He let his players and his emotions take over and the team fed off of it.

and that's a crock of crap if I've ever read one. The Bears didn't change? No they just came out in the same defense Brett torched them with in the first half.

And their safeties weren't sitting back in the cover two either. They were up and aggressive. With us holding every friggin play and sitting on first or second and twenty the whole second half they got better pressure to. Imagine that?

The question is what game were you watching? I know what game I watched.

We screwed ourselves the whole second half on down and distance and field position. I am glad we picked up Rouse but I have to tell ya I was ready to punch him in the face after putting us way back there twice with holding calls. Then Tausher? He never holds anybody. I could halfway understand Spitz who had just come in at center for getting one. He hasn't played in awhile.

Blame the coach all you want but those were bad mental errors on our part and that's what cost us the game. Putting this on the coach is just a real transparent view of this ballgame.

 

[KGB94SACKEM]

All of the Above anyone?

James Jones played poorly for the first time in his career.

Favre made one mistake all game long and it basically gave the Bears 7 points.

McCarthy coached a poor game. One of the worse of his career.

Woodson fumbles the ball. The reason why he's returning for us is he is good at taking care of it.

PENALTIES

The Packers play like this and they'll lose to any team in the league. Rams, Bills, Jets, and Dolphins. Yet they still almost beat the Bears. Packers beat the Packers in this game.

I agree with everything other than MM. He saw cover two with seven in the box and they should have been able to run it better than they did. He said he was extremely disappointed with the run offense in the second half as I think he saw the run opportunity there.

As a coach you call what the other team gives you. From there it's up to the players to get it done. I think there was a letdown in intensity and focus out there and execution never got back on track.

He would have been wrong to go against the front he saw and try to force the passing game when they were giving us the run. We just simply didn't perform.

The cover 2 has holes. You can throw into a cover 2 all day. In fact it is a rather vanilla defense. Find a pocket and sit down. The Bears didn't change thier gameplan at half-time. McCarthy changed his. I'm not sure what game you were watching. McCarthy got away from what he was doing, and it had ZERO to do with what the Bears were doing on Defense.

This one is all on MM. He let his players and his emotions take over and the team fed off of it.

and that's a crock of crap if I've ever read one. The Bears didn't change? No they just came out in the same defense Brett torched them with in the first half.

And their safeties weren't sitting back in the cover two either. They were up and aggressive. With us holding every friggin play and sitting on first or second and twenty the whole second half they got better pressure to. Imagine that?

The question is what game were you watching? I know what game I watched.

We screwed ourselves the whole second half on down and distance and field position. I am glad we picked up Rouse but I have to tell ya I was ready to punch him in the face after putting us way back there twice with holding calls. Then Tausher? He never holds anybody. I could halfway understand Spitz who had just come in at center for getting one. He hasn't played in awhile.

Blame the coach all you want but those were bad mental errors on our part and that's what cost us the game. Putting this on the coach is just a real transparent view of this ballgame.

With all due respect Warhawk you are just wrong. The Cover 2 prevents anything deep. What does that have to do with the quick slants that we run religously?

The 2-Deep takes away deep go routes. You line 2 WR one side and make the saftety make a decision. We threw into cover 2 several times in the first half.

 

[KGB94SACKEM]

All of the Above anyone?

James Jones played poorly for the first time in his career.

Favre made one mistake all game long and it basically gave the Bears 7 points.

McCarthy coached a poor game. One of the worse of his career.

Woodson fumbles the ball. The reason why he's returning for us is he is good at taking care of it.

PENALTIES

The Packers play like this and they'll lose to any team in the league. Rams, Bills, Jets, and Dolphins. Yet they still almost beat the Bears. Packers beat the Packers in this game.

I agree with everything other than MM. He saw cover two with seven in the box and they should have been able to run it better than they did. He said he was extremely disappointed with the run offense in the second half as I think he saw the run opportunity there.

As a coach you call what the other team gives you. From there it's up to the players to get it done. I think there was a letdown in intensity and focus out there and execution never got back on track.

He would have been wrong to go against the front he saw and try to force the passing game when they were giving us the run. We just simply didn't perform.

The cover 2 has holes. You can throw into a cover 2 all day. In fact it is a rather vanilla defense. Find a pocket and sit down. The Bears didn't change thier gameplan at half-time. McCarthy changed his. I'm not sure what game you were watching. McCarthy got away from what he was doing, and it had ZERO to do with what the Bears were doing on Defense.

This one is all on MM. He let his players and his emotions take over and the team fed off of it.

and that's a crock of crap if I've ever read one. The Bears didn't change? No they just came out in the same defense Brett torched them with in the first half.

And their safeties weren't sitting back in the cover two either. They were up and aggressive. With us holding every friggin play and sitting on first or second and twenty the whole second half they got better pressure to. Imagine that?

The question is what game were you watching? I know what game I watched.

We screwed ourselves the whole second half on down and distance and field position. I am glad we picked up Rouse but I have to tell ya I was ready to punch him in the face after putting us way back there twice with holding calls. Then Tausher? He never holds anybody. I could halfway understand Spitz who had just come in at center for getting one. He hasn't played in awhile.

Blame the coach all you want but those were bad mental errors on our part and that's what cost us the game. Putting this on the coach is just a real transparent view of this ballgame.

Whats transparent is saying the cover 2 eliminates every bit of passing. It's not the PREVENT! I guess everytime we play a team that goes into 2-Deep we should just ineffectively pound the ball.

I'm not trying to be rude, but do some research on the cover 2. Thats a very generic term because there are many defenses that incorporate 2 safeties in deep zones. You can have man under, zone under, etc.

The 2 deep safeties are not going to take away the stuff underneath. Did McCarthy even try that? I just fail to realize how the cover 2 takes away the pass game.

 

[pack_in_black]

The 2 deep safeties are not going to take away the stuff underneath. Did McCarthy even try that? I just fail to realize how the cover 2 takes away the pass game.

You make a good point about the cover-2 being over-generalized into the belief that you can absolutely, never ever pass against it. However, the Bears run it almost better than anyone in the game has.

Here's my take on Mac not trying underneath routes.
After penalties, we're backed up inside our own 20. We have 1st or 2nd and 15+, it's hard to take a 4-yard underneath route. Two deep safeties limit anything beyond 15 yards or so. Jennings was out hurt, and Jones is struggling to hold onto the ball. So you can go to Driver, who's probably got one man-on and whoever's zone he runs into, so he's essentially doubled.
You can go to Ruvell, but he's better along the sidelines.

My point is, with GJ and JJ limited options, facing a stifling pass defense, I would've gone with the running game that had been clicking early in the game. That's JMO, but I think I would've expected exactly that from almost any HC.

 

[KGB94SACKEM]

The 2 deep safeties are not going to take away the stuff underneath. Did McCarthy even try that? I just fail to realize how the cover 2 takes away the pass game.

You make a good point about the cover-2 being over-generalized into the belief that you can absolutely, never ever pass against it. However, the Bears run it almost better than anyone in the game has.

Here's my take on Mac not trying underneath routes.
After penalties, we're backed up inside our own 20. We have 1st or 2nd and 15+, it's hard to take a 4-yard underneath route. Two deep safeties limit anything beyond 15 yards or so. Jennings was out hurt, and Jones is struggling to hold onto the ball. So you can go to Driver, who's probably got one man-on and whoever's zone he runs into, so he's essentially doubled.
You can go to Ruvell, but he's better along the sidelines.

My point is, with GJ and JJ limited options, facing a stifling pass defense, I would've gone with the running game that had been clicking early in the game. That's JMO, but I think I would've expected exactly that from almost any HC.

At that point though you can throw a screen underneath, get something to a TE,or take the 5-6 yards underneath and live with it. It would seem to get you in better position for 3rd down. Let's say it 1st and 20

Run for 2 yards - 2nd & 18
Run for 3 yards - 3rd & 15
Unmanageable against 2 deep safeties

Now

Pass for 6 yards - 2nd & 14
Pass for 5 yards - 3rd & 9
Slightly more manageble

Of course this is highly subjective but it just one way to look at it. You can also hit a Deep post against cover 2 for nice yardage. The Cover 2 didn't take us out of our game, McCarthy's playcall did, IMO

 

[pack_in_black]

You should read the transcript of MM's p.c. today. They ask quite a few questions related to this, and MM has a bunch to say about it.

I think that those passes that you are looking for were attempted on one drive, and it ended with the ball in Brian "I'm a complete a-hole d-bag" Urlacher's hands.

 

[KGB94SACKEM]

You should read the transcript of MM's p.c. today. They ask quite a few questions related to this, and MM has a bunch to say about it.

I think that those passes that you are looking for were attempted on one drive, and it ended with the ball in Brian "I'm a complete a-hole d-bag" Urlacher's hands.

I read it. That was the only pass attempted besides the shovel pass. It got picked and he completely went away from it. Thats what I am saying. The cover 2 didn't get that pass picked off, a bad decision did. Then he didn't even attempt to test it. He got ultra conservative even though we shredded the Cover 2 several times in the first half

 

[pack_in_black]

You should read the transcript of MM's p.c. today. They ask quite a few questions related to this, and MM has a bunch to say about it.

I think that those passes that you are looking for were attempted on one drive, and it ended with the ball in Brian "I'm a complete a-hole d-bag" Urlacher's hands.

I read it. That was the only pass attempted besides the shovel pass. It got picked and he completely went away from it. Thats what I am saying. The cover 2 didn't get that pass picked off, a bad decision did. Then he didn't even attempt to test it. He got ultra conservative even though we shredded the Cover 2 several times in the first half

At the end of the transcript, he mentions that they were in a 3-shell in the first half (when we shredded them). They weren't in that defense once in the 2nd half.

Favre gets panicky and jumpy almost every time he's pinned deep in his own end against the bears, and makes bad decisions for some inexplicable reason. It's tough to expect a HC in the NFL to pass on every play when his offense is pinned inside their own 25. The runs had to have been in part due to a need for ball security, and we paid dearly when we did risk the pass.

 

[porky88]

Re: WHAT was the Biggests reason for this Loss? [Merged Thre

This one is all on MM. He let his players and his emotions take over and the team fed off of it.

I don't think you can put it all on McCarthy but he was most certainly part of the puzzle. When you have your veterans making costly mistakes things tend to go wrong. McCarthy didn't fumble the ball on a punt return and didn't make a costly mistake in our own red zone up 20 to 10. He didn't fumble on the slants either. McCarthy was part of the problem but like I said with James Jones, he was just a piece of the puzzle to last nights debacle. Same goes for McCarthy.

 

[HatestheEagles084]

Not to start a fight here, but how can you "target" a guy who gets the ball stripped? That's like saying teams are going to target Brett for the rest of his career cause he threw two picks- it's just something that every team tries to do to every player. I don't think that you could neccessarily 'target' a guy to strip the ball. I'd honestly be surprised of Jones gives it up like that again all year.

I'm a lot more collected than the last 24 hours but I said "I'd be surprised if James Jones gives it up like that again" after the first fumble.

Yes teams target Brett you even heard Al Michaels quote Lovie Smith saying that Brett's gonna throw it to us at least once this game.

And at the same time, if a guy has a fumbling problem (I'm not gonna look it up here, so...) 15(?) touches and 2 fumbles you're damn right a defensive back is gonna go for the ball ...

 

[WinnipegPackFan]

Re: WHAT was the Biggests reason for this Loss? [Merged Thre

Note of interest:

Cowgirls commit six turnovers today ( 5 picks by Romo alone ) and still manage to win the game.

That's all this is, a note of interest !!!

 

[Zero2Cool]

We should have won, simple as that. We didn't.

Discussion > Redskins...

 

[WinnipegPackFan]

Re: WHAT was the Biggests reason for this Loss? [Merged Thre

We should have won, simple as that. We didn't.

Discussion > Redskins...

Agreed, time to move on Z2Z !!!

 

[axelred13]

I think MM is a stubborn man. He decided he was going to come out and run in order to protect the lead and take time off the clock. But that is what the Bears wanted us to do. They were trying to take away the passing game because they knew we couldn't run if the game depended on it. It was like running into a brick wall and MM thought eventually that wall would move. It didn't.

We moved the ball on the ground in the first quarter solely out of surprise, which in turn opened up the passing game and Brett threw the ball all over the field. But when something doesn't work an head coach has to be willing to be flexible in order to find something that works. MM didn't do that. He insisted on running the ball which hasn't worked all season except for one quarter.

Take away one turnover I think we win. But even with the turnovers we still had a shot at winning that game but MM limited us winning with his stubborn playcalling.

 

[PackerChick]

It was definitely those two early turnovers that hurt us for sure. We also let our guard down as well.

Let's learn from this and move on to the next challenge and have a better game next time.

 

[warhawk]

You should read the transcript of MM's p.c. today. They ask quite a few questions related to this, and MM has a bunch to say about it.

I think that those passes that you are looking for were attempted on one drive, and it ended with the ball in Brian "I'm a complete a-hole d-bag" Urlacher's hands.

I read it. That was the only pass attempted besides the shovel pass. It got picked and he completely went away from it. Thats what I am saying. The cover 2 didn't get that pass picked off, a bad decision did. Then he didn't even attempt to test it. He got ultra conservative even though we shredded the Cover 2 several times in the first half

At the end of the transcript, he mentions that they were in a 3-shell in the first half (when we shredded them). They weren't in that defense once in the 2nd half.

Favre gets panicky and jumpy almost every time he's pinned deep in his own end against the bears, and makes bad decisions for some inexplicable reason. It's tough to expect a HC in the NFL to pass on every play when his offense is pinned inside their own 25. The runs had to have been in part due to a need for ball security, and we paid dearly when we did risk the pass.

Thank You. The Bears run an aggressive form of cover two and the safeties are closer to the line then normal or at least did that Sunday. The down and distance and poor field position we created for ourselves put us in a hole.

If Washington comes with this we have to be able to run the ball and get favorable down and distance situations. That means we cannot afford holding penalties on the returns or on first and second downs.

We cannot afford to let the Dbacks sit on the routes like that and running it affectively is the way to break it down.

You can bet Washington was watching Sunday night. It's the only half our offense has been held down.

If Washington comes out in a similar defense the question is will we run it like we did in the first half or like we did in the second half? I'm thinking we will be fine if we don't keep shooting ourselves in the foot with penalties and poor field position which definately lets defense be more aggressive.

 

[IGHPack]

I not see any one complaining about the plays by Bush. I thought he could have been doing a better job on some of the passes he had to defend.

 

[Buckeyepackfan]

The biggest reason that The Bears beat The Packer is that The Bears scored more points.
Simple as that.
Funny thing I looked at the standings this morning and it still showed The Packers in first place in The North division.
We gave one away, so what, there are 16 weeks in the season, I sometime forget that some on this forum expect every Packer to play perfect every game and The Packers are supposed to win every game or changes should be made.
I suggest to some of you who is letting Sunday night just eat at you, to step away for a day or two and get ready for this Sunday.
I am sure the players and coaches both know that there are improvements that need to be made and mistakes to be eliminated, so try to enjoy the fact that he Packers are 4-1 after five and have a good chance of being 5-1 going into their bye week.
I would have taken 3-3 at the bye week looking at the schedule at the beginning of the year and I bet most of you would have to.
If you can't enjoy the journey arriving at your destination will be a big dissapointment.