What TT Gets Right and Wrong about FA

[Deleted member 6794]

Honorable mention:
Michael Crabtree. Won't cost as much as Alshon Jeffrey, is 28 years old, and had a very good year with the Raiders. He'd be great opposite of Jordy.

Crabtree signed a four-year extension with the Raiders in December.

and if they do win it this year and don't for another 10, how is that any different than what GB has already done?

Using free agency to address obvious needs on the team the Broncos have made it to the Super Bowl twice in the last three years while Thompson spent watching Senior Bowl practices.

My contention was never that FA is foolish. My contention is that it can leave you high and dry without the promise of anything. My contention is there are a lot of ways to build a good team, none of which don't come along with their own set of pro's and con's.

I agree that signing free agents doesn´t promise anything, not using it guarantees not improving the team though.

 

[Ace]

I agree that signing free agents doesn´t promise anything, not using it guarantees not improving the team though.

I don't know if I agree completely with this, I'd more say that not using it doesn't even give you a chance to improve your team outside of the draft.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

I don't know if I agree completely with this, I'd more say that not using it doesn't even give you a chance to improve your team outside of the draft.

Well, that´s what I actually tried to say.

 

[Ace]

Well, that´s what I actually tried to say.

I figured but just wanted to be difficult.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

everyone can see we need better ILB play, but last year wasn't exactly a strong FA class was it? The guy we heard over and over and over never played a down this year for anybody. So we can *****, and now use hindsight to say, hey, he would have been pretty good yet i've seen nobody show me their post from last March and say "this is who we need"

I was one of the guys in favor of signing Spikes last offseason. The main reason for him not playing in 2015 were off the field issues though.

 

[sschind]

MM might be one of the worst coaches in the NFL and should never have been a HC this long. This whole team is a joke. Capers never getting fired either is the biggest joke.

Everyone needs to be fired. Mike Murphy, TT, MM, Capers.

Except that guy who fills the Gatorade bucket. He is a HOF bucket filler I can tell you that. I watched a documentary on Gatorade bucket fillers and to a man everyone said this man is the greatest Gatorade bucket filler of all time. Not just the best right now but GOAT and that's over every sport. Even NASCAR and dog sled racing.

 

[El Guapo]

For those that haven't read it, this is the McGinn article that was referenced regarding TT:http://www.jsonline.com/sports/pack...arthy-ted-thompson-b99656523z1-366325731.html

I don't really think there are many, if any, folks that are 100% in the TT camp regarding next-to-no free agent acquisitions. Most people are somewhere along the line of we need to keep focusing on the draft while bringing in a FA here or there that can push us over the top. It's just a question of how far along that line each of us resides.

That said, I question whether any of those moves this year would have truly benefited the team. I say that while thinking about the offensive disfunction that we experienced. I'm not sure that tossing Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald (if it were possible) onto our team would have made things any better. This season was doomed by more critical elements than just the roster, and whether we picked up FAs.

TT does kick the tires with FAs. He sniffs from afar, weighing salary demands and potential impact against his salary cap, and then moves on if he doesn't like what he sees. I guess that's not really even kicking the tires, it's looking at the tires in the used auto lot as you drive by. In any case, he looks but rarely gets interested enough to pull the trigger.

We will see what the public criticism does to move TT further down the path. Maybe Murphy will give Eliot Wolf more power in his Pro Personnel position. Then again, maybe Wolf hasn't been identifying those players and lobbying for them in a way as to get TT's attention. I certainly don't know the inter-workings of the Packers. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out though.

 

[sschind]

And sschind, how was the signing of Peppers not a big splash signing? Or are you just relating that Vic didn’t think it was?

I think it resulted in a big splash but at the time Peppers was deemed by many to be too old to be anything more than a part time stop gap player. He wasn't expected to be the answer at the position for several years to come and I'm not sure he had much interest from many other teams. Maybe he did and we just didn't hear about it. That's what I meant by not a big splash. It seemed to come about so quickly and was totally unexpected. It was like a drive by FA signing.

I also think any splash that it made at the time was more due to the fact that Ted would ever do something like that. It wasn't so much who he signed but the fact that he signed anybody (and an ex Bear to boot) that made more news than the player and his ability to help the team.

 

[tynimiller]

I think it resulted in a big splash but at the time Peppers was deemed by many to be too old to be anything more than a part time stop gap player. He wasn't expected to be the answer at the position for several years to come and I'm not sure he had much interest. Maybe he did and we just didn't hear about it. That's what I meant by not a big splash. It seemed to come about so quickly and was totally unexpected. It was like a drive by FA signing.

That is exactly how you play the FA game, you get guys that contribute at a level worth the price.

Pickett was an awesome FA pick up for us, Reggie White, Woodson, Peppers and some others. Some were before their prime, or were thought to be past it, or Woodson was thought to be too injury prone by some.

A huge FA pickup rarely ever pays off if you look at the track record. A home run swing like Reggie doesn't happen much and turn out like it did. I'd love to see finding a stud at a good price now that hasn't blown up yet but is on the upswing. NO I don't have one specific one in mind haha.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That said, I question whether any of those moves this year would have truly benefited the team. I say that while thinking about the offensive disfunction that we experienced. I'm not sure that tossing Calvin Johnson or Larry Fitzgerald (if it were possible) onto our team would have made things any better. This season was doomed by more critical elements than just the roster, and whether we picked up FAs.

With the offense returning all starters for the 2015 season none of us expected the unit to struggle like it did and because of it not a lot were talking about upgrading this side of the ball with free agents (although some of us were advocating to bring in a veteran tight end).

 

[ExpatPacker]

McGinn labeled Thompson, last week, as basically a glorified "director of college scouting".

A real good jab there by McGinn. It landed.

 

[ExpatPacker]

That defense looked unstoppable yesterday, which is a good thing for them. But just last week, I feel confident in saying that Denver would have been bounced by a Healthy QB, at least one of their starting RB's and the #1 WR in the league available for the Steelers. Would we still be talking about how great their FA pickups were if they were 1 and done and looking at all those big name URFA's hitting the market and no quarterback on the roster other than Manning who definitely hurts in the short and long term more than he helps going into next year? and if they do win it this year and don't for another 10, how is that any different than what GB has already done?

I'm sure we'll sign some FA's from other teams when the price is right and the need is there. Otherwise i'm sure we won't. We faltered this year because of offense and i'm pretty sure I saw next to zero posts last offseason about we need this FA and that FA for our offense.

You do realize what the Denver defense just did to a healthy Brady with all of his weapons don't you?

 

[Mondio]

oh yeah, saw it with my own eyes, and surely you saw the game the week before? you don't think not having a starting RB and your #1 WR made a difference? The patriots made the same mistakes GB did earlier in the year and thought their clearly overmatched tackles could even stand in the way. The Steelers did not have that problem. Denver was lucky to face a steeler team hit with big untimely injuries.

 

[Mondio]

A real good jab there by McGinn. It landed.

but did it? I already completely dismiss anything with his name on it that my eyes may inadvertently see. If I know he wrote it before reading it, I don't click or I close it. He's lost any respect I used to have for him. any actual journalistic skills he puts forth is lost in his recent preferred Skip Bayless form of presenting it.

 

[Vrill]

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/Ted-Thompson-couldnt-see-the-writing-on-the-wall--43134399

States a few interesting things. How we lost out on Owen Daniels (TE) who caught two key TD passes against NE in the AFC Championship. States how we could have went after Karlos Dansby and D'Quell Jackson at ILB. It went on and said how TT overestimated the ILB's on our roster along with our TE situation. Then it brings up the fact that TT isn't building around Aaron Rodgers on offense good enough.

A lot of this I agree with. However, hindsight is always 20/20.

 

[Vrill]

I think people underestimate how much a veteran without a Super Bowl ring helps your squad out when your team is on the cusp like we are.

 

[Mondio]

and if Daniels doesn't happen to be in a position to catch those TD's in the last game, he isn't even a fart in the wind thought for this journalist. Seriously, how could we have ever replaced his 2 catches a per game and 3TD's all year. I liked Daniels as an option too, but it's not as if he was some spectacular TE since leaving Houston.

 

[Pokerbrat2000]

A lot of this I agree with. However, hindsight is always 20/20.

As you said, hindsight is 20/20 and this reporter is trying to make headlines from yesterdays headlines of MM being upset with TT for not being more active in the FA market. But pretty **** poor afterthoughts and hindsight to prove his point, IMO. 2 years ago? Surprised he didn't bring up WR's we should have gone after in the FA market, because we knew Jordy would get hurt.

Although I agree that TT could be and should be more active in the FA market, I am sure there are a lot of Cowboy (and multiple other teams) fans and reporters that could tell you how that philosophy has been working out for their teams.

I think TT does well at signing his own, but tends to put to much emphasis on his own developing fast or successfully enough to fill the gaps that an occasional FA could. This will be an interesting off season now that ALL eyes are on TT and his FA policy.

 

[AmishMafia]

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/Ted-Thompson-couldnt-see-the-writing-on-the-wall--43134399

States a few interesting things. How we lost out on Owen Daniels (TE) who caught two key TD passes against NE in the AFC Championship. States how we could have went after Karlos Dansby and D'Quell Jackson at ILB. It went on and said how TT overestimated the ILB's on our roster along with our TE situation. Then it brings up the fact that TT isn't building around Aaron Rodgers on offense good enough.

A lot of this I agree with. However, hindsight is always 20/20.

I think if this author had written "50 Shades of Grey" he would have been far more successful as a writer.

 

[TJV]

I think it resulted in a big splash but at the time Peppers was deemed by many to be too old to be anything more than a part time stop gap player. He wasn't expected to be the answer at the position for several years to come and I'm not sure he had much interest from many other teams. Maybe he did and we just didn't hear about it. That's what I meant by not a big splash. It seemed to come about so quickly and was totally unexpected. It was like a drive by FA signing.

"Drive by FA signing" = . If not a big splash, Peppers signing was certainly a medium splash. I expected him to be "the answer" at a position for a couple of seasons. And so did the Packers. He was something like the second highest paid player in 2015 with the third highest cap number and I believe he's number four next season in both categories if he doesn't renegotiate. BTW, I really don't care whether or not other teams were interested in him - or that only the Bucs and Packers were interested in Woodson, for example. IMO Thompson gets full credit for both signings and blame for not signing more free agents.

 

[milani]

but did it? I already completely dismiss anything with his name on it that my eyes may inadvertently see. If I know he wrote it before reading it, I don't click or I close it. He's lost any respect I used to have for him. any actual journalistic skills he puts forth is lost in his recent preferred Skip Bayless form of presenting it.

Just what we've been preaching about TT for years. The problem is that he only has to answer to himself. Build your entire team through the draft. Resign a few top players. Resign mediocre players who can keep your cap down. Don't trade. Sign one free agent every 10 years. And say the Lord's Prayer that you'll get some Hail Marys to win a few games.

 

[Mondio]

actually he answers to a board and a president and he's been one of the most successful GM's in the NFL for a long time and part of very successful front offices before he became a GM. and if he listened to everyone on here we'd be the Browns in no time

 

[Un4GivN]

actually he answers to a board and a president and he's been one of the most successful GM's in the NFL for a long time and part of very successful front offices before he became a GM. and if he listened to everyone on here we'd be the Browns in no time

Just curious... How are you measuring "most successful GM". Just curious, because since Thompson took over. We have 1 super bow appearance. Pats have been to 4, Pitt has been to 3, Seahawks have been to 3, Denver has now been to 2, Colts have been to 2, Giants have been to 2. And that's only looking at the last 10 years.

Right now we are second tier at best... With the likes of Baltimore, the Saints... with 1 super bowl appearance and victory in the last 10 years. More playoff appearances but I mean so do the Bengals, and we see how that means nothing.

In my eyes I wouldn't put TT in top tier. Second tier though somewhere between 7-12. His drafting and free agency has been horrible at times. Spending years and still not finding people in certain positions like OLB. Leaving the team absolutely lacking in positions like MLB this year. Anyone who says this is hindsight is wrong, many seen this problem before the season and Clay needs to be moved back.

In years back we have put up historically bad defenses... Somehow with our nickel corner being Jarrett Bush... Went years without a true running back. It's been a mess at times.

 

[tynimiller]

I get what you are saying Un4GivN...but still in this league if you can say as a GM you will win as much as he has, win the division as much as he has, and get his team to the playoffs as much as he has....NOT a single franchise would say no to you. You listed 6 teams with more Super Bowl appearances in the last 10 years. Curious to know of those 6, how many of them have been to the playoffs in last 10 compared to GB...back to 2004 made the playoff numbers for those teams are as follows (includes this year):

Patriots - 11
Colts - 10
Green Bay - 9
Seattle - 9
Steelers - 8
Denver - 7
Giants - 5

In the span since 2004 only 2 organizations have put their teams in the playoffs more. Yes, I know we've suffered some pretty epic debacles...the debacle against Arizona, Seattle in the NFC ship....and on.

However, can a GM really put forth much more than what TT has done? I mean shoot the Colts have only won 1 in that time, in the prime of Peyton...granted they were battling with the prime of Brady but still. Seattle is only as good as they seem because they've yet to have to pay their elite QB...that wave won't be able to be ridden forever and we will begin to see the true skill and coaching of all included over there (not discrediting them by any means but it is tough to argue they've capitilized on Russel's rookie contract as much as possible..)

Does TT sometimes play it too slow or conservative, yup. Does he play it stupid and wreckless, nope. My hunch is he is in a lot more conversations than many of us will ever even know about...he just won't gamble his team's future on being wreckless. Love it, hate it but the results at least deserve respect. He's continually put us in the hunt, and with a QB like Rodgers in the hunt is always just a shot or two away from laying down your target.

 

[Un4GivN]

I get what you are saying Un4GivN...but still in this league if you can say as a GM you will win as much as he has, win the division as much as he has, and get his team to the playoffs as much as he has....NOT a single franchise would say no to you. You listed 6 teams with more Super Bowl appearances in the last 10 years. Curious to know of those 6, how many of them have been to the playoffs in last 10 compared to GB...back to 2004 made the playoff numbers for those teams are as follows (includes this year):

Patriots - 11
Colts - 10
Green Bay - 9
Seattle - 9
Steelers - 8
Denver - 7
Giants - 5

In the span since 2004 only 2 organizations have put their teams in the playoffs more. Yes, I know we've suffered some pretty epic debacles...the debacle against Arizona, Seattle in the NFC ship....and on.

However, can a GM really put forth much more than what TT has done? I mean shoot the Colts have only won 1 in that time, in the prime of Peyton...granted they were battling with the prime of Brady but still. Seattle is only as good as they seem because they've yet to have to pay their elite QB...that wave won't be able to be ridden forever and we will begin to see the true skill and coaching of all included over there (not discrediting them by any means but it is tough to argue they've capitilized on Russel's rookie contract as much as possible..)

Does TT sometimes play it too slow or conservative, yup. Does he play it stupid and wreckless, nope. My hunch is he is in a lot more conversations than many of us will ever even know about...he just won't gamble his team's future on being wreckless. Love it, hate it but the results at least deserve respect. He's continually put us in the hunt, and with a QB like Rodgers in the hunt is always just a shot or two away from laying down your target.

I have so many issues with this logic.... By your logic the Bengals have a top 3 GM because they make the playoffs every year. When in reality they are the laughing stock of the league. Playoff appearance and "consistency" are the most over-rated things in sports.

The Cavs just fired the 6th most winingest coach of all time because they only care about Championships. The Chargers fired a 13-3 coach because he didn't get them there. They have been calling for Marvin Lewis's head for years.

No one cares about consistency... Ill take 2 super bowls in 8 years, and out of the playoffs every other. Than 7 out of 8 years not being quite good enough.

It's a philosophical thing... TT is good enough not to get fired. Because he risks nothing. But is also not good enough in my mind to because even consideration of top 3 GMs in the league.