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What has happened to this franchise

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by packedhouse01, Apr 17, 2006.

  1. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    It never ceases to amaze me how one bad hire can ruin a franchise. I'm fortunate to have been around long enough to see what happened in Green Bay after Vince left for Washington D.C. When you hire incompetent people you never get the job done. The hiring of Ron Wolf and his hiring of Mike Holmgren was simply brilliant. What Ron Wolf ended up doing to this franchise is not so brilliant. His hiring of Ray Rhoads and then later Mike Sherman wasn't very smart. But his hiring of Mike Sherman to be his successor as GM was just plain stupid. This franchise is in dire straights today because of the incompetency of the last five years. Bob Harlan needs to stop using Ron Wolf as an advisor because everything he advises has turned out badlly ever since Holmgren left Green Bay. My hope is that his last recommendation of hiring Ted Thompson won't be as bad as the last three moves he made when he was in control.

    We seem to have no other choice but to hope and believe that Ted Thompson is as crafty as Wolf was when he first took over the franchise. If he is, maybe in a few short years we'll be back to respectability.
     
  2. Buckeyepackfan

    Buckeyepackfan Cheesehead

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    Dammit I knew I hadn't heard this in a few days!!!!!

    EVERYTHING THAT HAS GONE BAD WITH THE PACKERS THE LAST 5 YEARS IS ALL MIKE SHERMAN'S FAULT!!!!!!!!

    Even last year when TT was calling the shots, it still WAS ALL MIKE SHEMRANS FAULT that we went 4-12.

    I say it has all been Ron Wolf's fault. If he just would have retired and let Holmgren be HC and GM like he wanted, Mike H. would have never left.
     
  3. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Packedhouse..

    My theory is that Wolf keeps recommending these "losers" so that his own legacy looks even better in comparison....

    But that's just me..

    (I'm sure some nut will attack me..though..!)
     
  4. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    I do believe that a significant part of what has happened these last five years is the responsibility of Mike Sherman. The majority of players that Mike Sherman had last year were his players, chosen by him. The lack of depth on this team is a testament to his lack of abilty as a GM.

    I'm not sure Mike Holmgren would have had anymore success in Green Bay as a GM then he has had in Seattle, but I do know this, he had all the tools in place for a dynasty to take place.
     
  5. Chamuko

    Chamuko Cheesehead

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    Ok Buckeyed I hope you dont get mad at me but i need to ad the following:

    I say it has all been Ron Wolf's fault. If he just would have retired and let Holmgren be HC and GM like he wanted, Mike H. would have never left AND WE WILL HAVE AT LEAST A COUPLE OF MORE S.B. RINGS !!!!
     
  6. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    Yeah, because Holmgren did SO WELL with dual responsibilities in Seattle.

    Simply put, both jobs are too much for one person to handle and do both effectively.
     
  7. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    Pack66, that's a little too deep for me, but it does make one wonder. I think what happened is that the game just passed Ron Wolf by. If he had done his homework he would have realized that what had happened with Rhoads in Philadelphia was the way things would be in Green Bay. The hiring of Sherman without any head coaching experience any place and then to make him GM without any experience in that area was just stupid. In Green Bay however, we always want to believe the best in people and I think we were all hoping that Mike Sherman would be the man. It just became obvious for a whole bunch of reasons, that he wan't the man for the job.
     
  8. Buckeyepackfan

    Buckeyepackfan Cheesehead

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    Mike Sherman wasn't perfect, he wasn't even close, but he did have a winning record his first four years, so he did do some things right, when Sherman got fired last year, it was time for him to go, but he is gone now and I'm just tired of reading about him.

    When does TT start getting hammered for stupid or non-moves, Sherman cannot be blamed forever.
     
  9. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

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    Mike Sherman was a great young coach with a lot of promise until he was named GM. After that, his coaching took a hit and he made a couple of mistakes in FA that continue to haunt this team. The point is that I agree with digs in that no one should be both coach and GM.
     
  10. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    Sherman made many mistakes as GM, but that doesn't mean that TT didn't make mistakes last year or this year.

    There were 15 rookies on the roster last season -- 15! I know that TT was handicapped by the salary cap last year, but it was obvious that he was looking to cut back on veteran players in favor of youthful potential. This led to us fielding a very inexperienced team, full of mistakes all over.

    I'm not going to defend Sherman's work, there's just no point. I'm also not yet ready to call for TT's head, he needs some time to prove himself. All I'm saying is that both are at fault for the failures of last season.

    Let's look to this season. We have a new coach who's doing a great job instilling team chemistry this offseason. The offseason workout program will hopefully reduce injuries, but the best part is bringing the team together.

    We have a good defense that is improving. With many young players gaining experience and we're adding talent.

    We have a strong set of RBs in Green, Davenport, Gado and Herron. Along with solid FBs in Hendo and Leach. Add a good core of WRs in Driver, Gardner, Walker and Ferguson -- and yet to see how good the additions will become. We have a solid set of TEs in Bubba and Lee. Good OTs in Clifton and Tauscher, with a developing interior OL of Wells, White, Witt, Couston, etc.

    The Packers aren't making the flashy moves that we see in Minny, Oakland, Dallas or Washington every year. But remember that those moves haven't led any of those teams to the SB. NE and Pitt built championship teams with a strong core players who work together. MM is working to instill that sort of team chemistry. There's a lot of talent on this team and that team chemistry can carry us far!

    GO PACK GO!!!
     
  11. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    I tend to agree that the overall team talent is being undersold. We have a good balance of youth and veterans on defense, and will add to the mix significantly with the draft. We have our tackles on the o-line, and some young prospects that have ad a little seasoning last year. Barring no setbacks, I like our RB/FB mix. Between Bubba and Donald Lee and whoever ends up as a third, the TEs look solid. Wr needs to be fleshed out a bit, but there is a foundation there...and let's remember we are going back to a more traditional WCO which will play to the talents of our TEs and WRs who, while not as flashy as some, all seem to be able to run after the catch.

    We are far from the Super Bowl, but are also not in the toilet bowl that some have us swirling down.
     
  12. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Agreed Bobby, It's funny that people try to single out one person to be the "Goat." If only it was that easy. The blame spreads across the board, from TT to MS to Brett to Franks to Longwell to the scouts to the trainers,on and on and on.

    You don't lose because of one person. You can say TT or MS should have brought in better players or called different plays,etc, but there are so many other factors.

    Let's blame the guys for not playing 100% or blame Tauscher for missing a block, Fergie for dropping a ball or Brett for overthrowing a reciever.

    In the end your overall record is all you have and MS had a nice record in GB. Could he have done better,of course. Could he have done worse,ditto.

    It's a combination of factors that decides wins from losses. I am sure MS wanted to win,as did TT,and every player on the team.

    Unfortunately, you, and 30 other NFL teams come up short in the end.

    Your overall talent level means nothing. Your guys must play like a well-oiled machine. Building team chemistry is so much more important than how GOOD guys are. A guy with average talent and a big heart is much more dangerous than a guy with huge talent and a "Cletidus Hunt" attitude
     
  13. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

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    What happened to this franchise...

    The people on this message board (as any football fan does this time of year...) has too much time on their hands to over-analyze everything and conspiracies and other controversies develop

    do like i do and follow the nhl playoffs and major league baseball for a few months and you'll find that you're not getting as worked up as you are now
     
  14. 4packgirl

    4packgirl Cheesehead

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    i don't see that the franchise, as a whole, is in dire straits at all. every game is sold out, money is coming into the town like crazy, & we are now & always WILL be one of the most storied franchises in NFL history.

    now the team on the other hand - sheesh - who knows what's gonna happen over the next few years?!?!? we could indeed be heading for some bad seasons but that is how the NFL is designed. roll with the punches is what i say & remain loyal. the pack will ALWAYS be back!!!
     
  15. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    I disagree with blaming it all on MS. As digs and TO said, its too much in todays NFL for ONE MAN to handle both jobs. MS did his damn best. He worked like there was no tomorrow, and you can't blame the man for lack of effort. He tended to draft players based on potential, rather than taking into account their attitude and such things.

    MS the GM led to MS the HCs downfall. Sherman missed on quite a few players, and that really effected the talent level on the team. But give him credit, with bad talent he led the Packers to 3 NFL Division championships. He led them to solid records. He was a good HC, as evident through his record for keeping the Pack competitive.

    Wolf said he saw real potential in MS, and had to give him the GM duties to ensure he was allowed to stay on as HC. Wolf was right that Sherman has some solid potential to be a great coach. I think you have to appreciate the fact that Sherman gave a lot to the Packers, and he really tried his best. It wasn't good enough, but in the end, what more can you ask than to give it your all?
     
  16. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    The man that was in charge of the franchise as coach and gm is always the guy who is goint to take the blame, just as many are already blaming TT. It's the way the world of athletics works. As for the team being in dire straights, please rmemeber I'm not talking about the financial part of the Packers, I'm talking about what they can put on the field. I don't think there is one blue chip player on this team and you're not going to win without having a number of those types of players. I look at the lack of depth on this team and the lack of developed talent. Every team is going to have to deal with losing players to free agency. The great teams have players ready to fill in or they coach their players better. That hasn't happened in Green Bay for a few years. Although I did like the work of Jim Bates.

    My point being that all franchises are so fragile today. Look at Minnesota with all the talent they bought, they still had a pinhead for a coach and coulnd't win. I like to see young guys like McCarthy get a chance, I just hope they're ready. I want TT to succeed, but I haven't seen him draft an impact player or sign an impact free agent yet. So my questions are obvious one's. Does he have the ability to recognize that type of player.

    Sherman's damage was even more so to the salary cap and spending a lot of money on bad or average players, where the great GM's pay the big money to guys who make big plays. The we he distributed salary cap money put this team in a bad position because we couldn't sign good fill in players because we paid too much money for non-productive players. It wasn't just that he didn't have an eye for good players, it was what he paid bad players.
     
  17. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    No one has said that Sherman didn't do his best with the Packers. I agree no one was more committed than he was. The problem was that Wolf was wrong on Sherman. He was an ok coach, but an awful GM. That decision alone put the Packers years behind where they could have been. The whole point of this posting was that bad decisions made at the top can affect your franchise for years to come, and it has. Look at the talent level we have here. I don't believe, as an example, that we have a blue chip player on this team right now. Now go back and look at the Superbowl years and you will see that we had numerous blue chip players. I'm not even sure if we have enough good players to win right now. And to be totally honest and not to blame Sherman alone, I'm not convinced at all the Thompson has made any significant improvements to the team either through the draft of free agency.
     
  18. P@ck66

    P@ck66 Banned Banned

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    Mike Sherman's and Tom Rossley's vast ineptitude as HC/GM is the sole reason why Brett Favre doesn't have another SB Ring on his finger with the Green Bay Packers....

    ...and Bob Harlan hired TT to drive the final stake in Brett Favre's heart and finish the job....!
     
  19. packedhouse01

    packedhouse01 Cheesehead

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    Anubis

    "Your arguement is a little flawed on a couple of points. As far as "blue chip" players go, we are somewhat lacking in that department considering we have one of the youngest rosters in the NFL. However, let's look at the following names:
    Defense:
    Al Harris - One of the best CBs in the league. Definately "blue chip" quality.
    Aaron Kampman - While maybe not "blue chip" quality yet, he has got consistantly better every year. Wait until the end of 2006 before passing judgement. He is definately on his way there.
    Nick Collins - Give him 2 more years to develop and ask yourself if he is "blue chip" quality. Outstanding performance by a rookie to say the least.
    Nick Barnett - Should be playing OLB, but still takes it to the bank every game. One of my favourites on defense.

    Offense:

    Brett Favre - Despite last season, name 5 QBs in the league right now you would rather have behind center. Future HOF, one of the best ever to play the game and definately far beyond "blue chip" quality.
    Ahman Green - A little old perhaps, but was a Pro Bowler in 2004. Never played enough last year to pass judgement.
    Javon Walker - Despite his annual hissy fits, he is still on the roster and was definately "blue chip" calibre prior to his injury last season.

    In addition, we have solid workhorses such as Driver, Franks and Gado. To say there is a lack of either talent or "blue chip" talent on this team is incorrect to say the least.

    Al Harris is far from a Blue Chip player, but he might be a red. He's a good defender at best. Nick Collins isn't a blue chipper either and isn't close to a red yet, although he might have a high upside, he's jus not there yet. Nick Barnett is an average at best linebacker. He misses too many tackles and can't get off a block.
    Offense.
    Brett is no longer, or at least wasn't last year, a blue chip player. Blue chippers don't throw 29 interceptions. Javon Walker is far from a blue chip and I wouldn't put him yet at red either, not because of talent but because he's a mess mentally. Ahman Green fumbles too much and seems to have lost step to be considered elite. Driver, Franks and Gado are simply put pretty nice players. I like them all, but you're not going to win a superbowl with them as your mainstays.

    I stand by what I said, this team has no blue chippers and maybe onle a few reds.
     
  20. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    Hey 66, I recently bought "The Seventy Greatest Conspiracies of All Time: History's Biggest Mysteries, Coverups, and Cabals " and Bob Harlan's conspiracy to force Brett out, or make him not get a ring, or whatever stupid ideas you have in your little head...wasn't in the book.

    HOWEVER...

    There is an updated version, "The 80 Greatest Conspiracies of All Time" and it might be in there. :roll:
     
  21. Anubis

    Anubis Cheesehead

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    Your arguement is a little flawed on a couple of points. As far as "blue chip" players go, we are somewhat lacking in that department considering we have one of the youngest rosters in the NFL. However, let's look at the following names:

    Defense:

    Al Harris - One of the best CBs in the league. Definately "blue chip" quality.
    Aaron Kampman - While maybe not "blue chip" quality yet, he has got consistantly better every year. Wait until the end of 2006 before passing judgement. He is definately on his way there.
    Nick Collins - Give him 2 more years to develop and ask yourself if he is "blue chip" quality. Outstanding performance by a rookie to say the least.
    Nick Barnett - Should be playing OLB, but still takes it to the bank every game. One of my favourites on defense.

    Offense:

    Brett Favre - Despite last season, name 5 QBs in the league right now you would rather have behind center. Future HOF, one of the best ever to play the game and definately far beyond "blue chip" quality.
    Ahman Green - A little old perhaps, but was a Pro Bowler in 2004. Never played enough last year to pass judgement.
    Javon Walker - Despite his annual hissy fits, he is still on the roster and was definately "blue chip" calibre prior to his injury last season.

    In addition, we have solid workhorses such as Driver, Franks and Gado. To say there is a lack of either talent or "blue chip" talent on this team is incorrect to say the least.

    Additionally, you stated a team requires a number of "blue chip" players to win a championship. So tell me, how many of these calibre players were listed on the New England Patriots roster when they won Super Bowl XXXVI?

    GO PACK!!!

    Robert C. Hedley
     
  22. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    I agree. It was Sherman's team last year. TT isn't to blame YET. He hasn't had a fair chance yet. Let him do his thing and we'll see how we end up.
     
  23. route25

    route25 Cheesehead

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    Actually, that should read "you're an idiot." Always double-check your grammar and/or spelling when calling someone an idiot.
     
  24. Buckeyepackfan

    Buckeyepackfan Cheesehead

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    P-88,
    I was being a little sarcastic there. I am just tired of some on this forum who continue to blame Mike Sherman for everything that went wrong.
    Sherman is gone, he made mistakes, his teams always seemed to have a lot of injuries to deal with, but that is in the past, nothing anyone says is going to change anything.

    TT hasn't been flawless since taking over, I have been hard on him at times, but he has a chance to change some minds the next couple of weeks, I am waiting to see if TT makes anymore moves in FA, and really looking forward to the draft.

    I would just like to come to this forum and not have to read for the 1000th time how things would have been different if MS would not have been hired.l
     
  25. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Lol, This team is fine, will it win a SB, I doubt it.

    Quit saying we have not signed an "Impact Player." What "Impact player" did Pittsburgh sign? How about Seattle?

    The truth is we are a young team that has to learn to gel as a unit. It has nothing to do with "Impact Players."
     

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