What difference does it make?

D.Levens

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So let me get this straight Levens...

Are you saying that the team we had in 2005 made Favre look worse than he was?

If so, are you willing to admit then that when we had good teams it made him look better than he was? Or is this just a one-way street?

I'll say this: I have seen lots of bad quarterbacks with bad teams around them. The Bucs of the mid 70s, the Cowboys of 1989, the Packers of 1980. But I'd never seen a guy throw 29 picks in a season until Favre did it.

He gave up on the team that year and just said "What the hell" and threw it.....to the detriment of the team. There's no way that a guy with Favre's skill needs to throw that many bad picks in the 4th quarter of close games.....he just didn't care.

Did you ever think that mighta been because your hero, Ted Thompson didn't care?

For Cripes sakes...he was signing guys off the street to play WR and O-Line, and guy's named Taco Wallace, and Chalupa Jones...

Do you think that ol' Teddy just mighta been setting up ol' Brett for failure..??

I do..

(PS..Favre made the Packers better way more often then the other way around. Does Peyton Manning or Tom Brady make their teams any better? Answer me that!)
 

Philtration

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So let me get this straight Levens...

Are you saying that the team we had in 2005 made Favre look worse than he was?

If so, are you willing to admit then that when we had good teams it made him look better than he was? Or is this just a one-way street?

I'll say this: I have seen lots of bad quarterbacks with bad teams around them. The Bucs of the mid 70s, the Cowboys of 1989, the Packers of 1980. But I'd never seen a guy throw 29 picks in a season until Favre did it.

He gave up on the team that year and just said "What the hell" and threw it.....to the detriment of the team. There's no way that a guy with Favre's skill needs to throw that many bad picks in the 4th quarter of close games.....he just didn't care.

Gee.... when I pointed out those very same stats on this very same site I was told that this was just "Brett trying to win", that he was the greatest QB even and you take those mistakes with the greatness that is Favre.
Live by the sword, die by the sword!

How times have changed.
 

Pugger

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If a person here states that Favre's skills are not what they once were and he has a propensity to throw picks at the worst possible time late in games during the last few years folks like Levins here calls them a hater. 99% of all Packer fans DO NOT HATE FARVE. We cheered for him hoarse for 16 seasons, prayed for him when his family had health issues and cried with him when his father died. I heard some fans even went down to MS to help clean up his home town after Katrina. But now there are a lot of us who just aren't all that thrilled with what he has become. I have no problem with him still wanting to play. But I have a hard time stomaching the fact he is playing in MN no matter what the circumstances of him not still playing in GB are.

I don't for one second believe anybody pushed BF out the door at 1265. I distinctly remember Favre telling us at that teary retirement PC in March of 2008 that the decision to retire was his and his alone. And this is the crux of the disagreement among Packer fans. There are some who believe TT wanted Favre out the door since day one so they hate TT and have no use for ANY player he has brought in - especially Rodgers. He really gets blasted by these folks cuz they almost blame him for Favre leaving. They hope the team crashes and burns so this vermin will be fired. I think both TT and MM wanted Favre back after he "retired" in March IF he would commit himself 100% to the Packers and attend offseason activities. In that teary PC Favre admitted he was weary of all the offseason work. But even last August I still think Favre could've come back. But when Favre had those marathon talks with McCarthy I don't think Favre convinced MM he was committed to playing for the Packers and MM even said so to the media after The Trade to NY.
 

Philtration

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How many QBs would say are perfect or close to it?
My dislike for the Packers is no secret but Rodgers played very well last year and if he can consistently throw for 4,000 yards and 25-30 TDs a season then that is something that most teams in the NFL only wish they had.

Believe me… being a Bears fan I know how bad it can be.
Why do you think the fans here are so damn happy that Cutler is in a Bears uniform?
We have seen the other side of that coin.
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doughsellz

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I love how you give Favre all the credit for taking the Jets from 4-12 to 9-7, totally ignoring the contributions of others. And you apparently don't recall that the season before that the Jets were 10-6 and in the playoffs and that the 4-12 season was riddled with injuries. So in a very real sense, Favre helped a 10-6 team achieve a 9-7 record.

In a very real sense the man you claim the Packers felt would do better than #4, Aaron Rodgers, took a team that had previously been ascending, (8-8 in '06, 13-3 in '07), to a new low at 6-10 in '08.

I know, it was injuries that were the real reason for 6-10, not Rodgers, right? You & Aaron Rodgers may be happy with his QB rating for '08 but the wins didn't accumulate. Inexperience played a huge role in the losses by 4 points or less. In '07 those games went the Packers' way.

I wonder why?
 

longtimefan

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In a very real sense the man you claim the Packers felt would do better than #4, Aaron Rodgers, took a team that had previously been ascending, (8-8 in '06, 13-3 in '07), to a new low at 6-10 in '08.

I know, it was injuries that were the real reason for 6-10, not Rodgers, right? You & Aaron Rodgers may be happy with his QB rating for '08 but the wins didn't accumulate. Inexperience played a huge role in the losses by 4 points or less. In '07 those games went the Packers' way.

I wonder why?


Brett never missed chances to have a win late in a game?

how about 2005?

It happens to the BEST so stop blaming ENTIRE 2008 on Rodgers



Week 3 2005 – Tampa 17, Green Bay 16
The Packers took over the ball with 5:52 to play in the fourth quarter at the 50 yard line. They were in prime position to gain a first down or two and kick a game-winning field goal. Instead, after picking up 2 yards, Brett threw deep toward the end zone and his pass was picked off by safety Will Allen at the 5 and returned 26 yards. The Bucs ran out the clock and won the game.

Week 4 – Carolina 32, Green Bay 29
The Packers took over at their own 37 with 1:50 to play, and Favre quickly completed a 15-yard pass to Donald Driver. Green Bay was now at the Carolina 48, and just 15 to 20 yards or so from a decent shot at a game-tying field goal. But Favre completed just 1 of 4 passes for 7 yards on the final series, and the Pack turned the ball over on downs, without getting a shot at a field goal.

Week 7 – Minnesota 23, Green Bay 20
The talentless Packers raced out to a 17-0 first-half lead. But Favre and the offense went in the tank allowing the Vikings to pull out a last-second 23-20 victory.

Week 8 – Cincinnati 21, Green Bay 14
Brett Favre throwing five interceptions in the final 32 minutes of the game, including picks on four straight possessions in the second half, hijacking any hopes his team had of besting the Bengals.

Week 11 – Minnesota 20, Green Bay 17
Brett Favre throws two picks as the Packers again fall to the Vikings on a last-second field goal. The first INT was returned by Dovonte Edwards 51 yards for a Vikings touchdown. The second was picked off by Brian Williams at the Minnesota 29, ending another Packers scoring chance.

Week 12 – Philadelphia 19, Green Bay 14
The Packers trail 10-7 in the first half, but move into goal range at the Philly 31 when Favre – throws a long pass into the end zone that’s picked off by Michael Lewis

The Packers still have a chance to win in the final two minutes of the fourth quarter when Favre throws not one but TWO picks on the same drive: the first was overturned by a roughing the passer penalty with 1:39 to play that put the ball at the Green Bay 44 – prime position for Favre to lead a heroic comeback. But just 40 seconds later, on 2nd and 15, the gunslinger once again fired recklessly into the end zone. Favre’s long pass was picked off by Roderick Hood. Game over


The Packers still have a chance to win in the final two minutes of the fourth quarter when Favre throws not one but TWO picks on the same drive: the first was overturned by a roughing the passer penalty with 1:39 to play that put the ball at the Green Bay 44 – prime position for Favre to lead a heroic comeback. But just 40 seconds later, on 2nd and 15, the gunslinger once again fired recklessly into the end zone. Favre’s long pass was picked off by Roderick Hood. Game over

Week 13 – Chicago 19, Green Bay 7
On a day in which the Bears offense simply could not move the football (190 yards vs. 358 for Green Bay), Favre still managed to find a way to lose......His first INT was returned 95 yards by Charles Tillman, setting up a Chicago field goal..........Then in the fourth quarter, with the Packers trailing just 12-7 and driving for a game-winning score, Favre threw a pick that was returned 45 yards for a touchdown by Nathan Vasher. Game over.

The most insightful post-game commentary came from Tillman: “It’s kind of hit or miss with Brett Favre.” No sh*t, Tillman.

Week 16 – Chicago 24, Green Bay 17
Favre throws four picks in the Chicago rematch, handing the Bears their first season sweep of the series in 14 years.

His first INT was returned 95 yards by Charles Tillman, setting up a Chicago field goal. Then in the fourth quarter, with the Packers trailing just 12-7 and driving for a game-winning score, Favre threw a pick that was returned 45 yards for a touchdown by Nathan Vasher. Game over.

The most insightful post-game commentary came from Tillman: “It’s kind of hit or miss with Brett Favre.” No sh*t, Tillman.
 

Pugger

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It just amazes me that these Favre fanatics will give BF all the credit for 2007 and tell us that he resurrected the Jets from oblivion last season but almost to a man ignore his record in 2005.
 

America

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In a very real sense the man you claim the Packers felt would do better than #4, Aaron Rodgers, took a team that had previously been ascending, (8-8 in '06, 13-3 in '07), to a new low at 6-10 in '08.

. Inexperience played a huge role in the losses by 4 points or less. In '07 those games went the Packers' way.

I wonder why?

Gosh....could it have possibly been the extra 80 points that our defense surrendered in 2008? Or the dramatic fall-off in special teams play?

I would think that both of those were more obvious reasons for the change in record than inexperience, but that's JMO.
 

PackersRS

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In a very real sense the man you claim the Packers felt would do better than #4, Aaron Rodgers, took a team that had previously been ascending, (8-8 in '06, 13-3 in '07), to a new low at 6-10 in '08.

I know, it was injuries that were the real reason for 6-10, not Rodgers, right? You & Aaron Rodgers may be happy with his QB rating for '08 but the wins didn't accumulate. Inexperience played a huge role in the losses by 4 points or less. In '07 those games went the Packers' way.

I wonder why?
Finally, someone that doesn't just say Rodgers didn't win enough because he sucks, that there were other factors involved. Yes, he played pretty good, but YES, he was inexperienced. The blame was mostly on injuries and bad defensive play (schemes and all). But he had some guilt (as Favre has had in the past, even being experienced. Actually, since the "amazing qb" phase ended and the "gunslinger" phase began he had a lot of those, but that's another issue.). But he NEEDED that year to develop himself as a qb and also the chemistry with his receivers. Did you see that amazing DD catch? I doubt they could've pulled that last year.
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BTW, did it hurt to actually make a point without offending anyone???
 

longtimefan

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Gosh....could it have possibly been the extra 80 points that our defense surrendered in 2008? Or the dramatic fall-off in special teams play?

I would think that both of those were more obvious reasons for the change in record than inexperience, but that's JMO.

failed to mention in 07 that the Philly game and the Washington game Brett threw 0 TDs and 3 or 4 ints. The Defense and S/T got those wins.

Which just goes to prove a point..It really is a TEAM game

When one player or unit slacks another has to pick it up
 

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