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We should go back to '07 McCarthy philosophy.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by realoatesman, Nov 5, 2009.

  1. realoatesman

    realoatesman Cheesehead

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    So someone mentioned dinking an dunking the other day, and it made me think of the '07 season when we IMO had an even worse o-line.

    I remember we had no running game, and McCarthy finally said screw it and started having Favre throw short all the time. Defenses couldn't stop the short stuff, and pass rushers started getting frustrated cuz they didn't have enough time to get to the QB. A defense would have to stop the short throws which set up the long pass plays.

    Why aren't we doing that now? It seems logical right? The running game is not good, even though it has been getting better, but was not used at all in the Vikes game.

    It would also help Rodgers and the offense get into a rhythm, which they have struggled with early this season and last. Not to mention shorter throw time=less sacks.
     
  2. spack84

    spack84 Cheesehead

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    I would like to see it come back. It may help to set up the long pass as well?
     
  3. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I don't think Rodgers is as good as Favre at the short passes for it to be unstoppable... But I do think it should be used, so Rodgers could grew better in that aspect.

    I don't think it'll be as effective as it was in 07, but I think you're right.
     
  4. realoatesman

    realoatesman Cheesehead

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    Well Rodgers doesn't take as many chances as Favre did, so Idk if that would matter or not on the short throws. And he doesn't quite have the arm, but he still has elite arm strength. All the same it would be a boost to our offense and take a whole lotta pressure off of the o-line.
     
  5. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    Rodgers has a bigger arm than Favre right now. Actually, he has one if the strongest arm in the NFL, as opposed to what was popular belief when he entered the league. Ask any NFL scout and he'll tell you that. He also has better long range precision. One is 40, the other 25. Who would've known that a big armed 25 has a stronger arm than a 40 year old? Favre had a bigger arm when he was younger, not now...

    But Favre reads defenses better, if not much better, and make decisions faster. One has been a starter in the league for 17 seasons, the other for 2...
     
  6. A12ROD903

    A12ROD903 Cheesehead

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    They have been throwing shorter lately. Thats where players like Kuhn come in. The problem is that the GBP arent running any slants anymore for some reason. Another idea I would like to implemented which is a fundamental element of football would be the screen pass. Now is a better time than any other due to the fact that teams obviously see that the oline is like swiss cheese so they are going to blitz more and exploit that. Well lets exploit that blitz thats been killing us and throw a SCREEN PASS.
     
  7. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    How the hell are we going to use a screen pass if none of our OL can execute it? With Green, we finally have a back that can actually run a screen. But wha't the point of that if there aren't going to be any linemen to block for him? As far as the WR screen, we have been using it, to some sucess. But not much, because in our WR screens only the other receivers block... So in reality, we don't run a WR screen. We run a very short hitch route...

    It's like I've said to Jerey Al of Packerslounge and Al's blog :
    Our linemen are too small to run a Power scheme, lack too much fundamentals to run a ZBS, and are too slow to run screens...
     
  8. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    One of the things that is needed from a quarterback, when using slants, and short passes is the "peripheral" (sp?) "vision" as well as the ability of the quarterback to be able to read the defensive packages at the line ...

    Most likely, Rodgers hasn't developed this yet, which is why the Packers are not using slants and short passes as much ... - One can only hope that it will develop ...

    Same explanation *could* be argued as to why Rodgers hasn't been able to utilize his check-downs to the full extent as well - yet ...
     
  9. spack84

    spack84 Cheesehead

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    Just wait till Rodgers starts reading defenses better and has a better offensive line. You think hes putting up good stats now, just wait till he gets those two.
     
  10. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    I beg to differ.

    It's not that Rodgers don't have it. He does. He just don't have it as good as Favre, as for just the short passes to be able to sustain a good offense.

    Rodgers couldn't pull just a short passed offense. But he's more than capable of pulling a bland of timed passes with long ones, with a decent running game. McCarthy just needs to gameplan right. Something he hasn't done so far. He has started with this mix, but soon enough given up the running game, or the screen passes, or the short slants.
    -
    Actually, I don't know if Rodgers couldn't pull a short passed offense. He did it the first games of 08 with sucess. The fact that he hasn't been good at hitting the checkdown on the plays designed to develop longer don't translate to Rodgers being unable to his short passes on plays designed to develop shorter...
     
  11. A12ROD903

    A12ROD903 Cheesehead

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    What do you mean they cant execute the screen? The screen is not hard to execute for any OL whether good or bad. It would actually be probably pretty easy for GB. First, their OL gets to let the pass rushers by them (which they are used to and the opponent will think its green bays actually pass protection) while they shuffle down the line into open field, Rodgers dances around for a little while and tosses to the ball to grant or green. Now the only thing that the pulling linemen have to do is get up field and get in someones way. Its not hard and I dont see a reason why GB's line couldnt do that.
     
  12. realoatesman

    realoatesman Cheesehead

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    But then they might have to actually block someone lol
     
  13. PackersRS

    PackersRS Cheesehead

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    OL Perception/Reality l Packers Lounge

    Great post by Jersey Al... It should explain my point... I know it's supposedly easier than just block, but it requires mobility, and none of our OL have it.
     
  14. ThinkICare

    ThinkICare Cheesehead

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    Good Link RS. A very interesting read. This is a reason why I want Tivo, so I can re-watch plays and see for myself who was to blame and not get caught up in everyone's reaction to who they thought blew a coverage or who's simply a bad blocker. That article on the packers o-line was helpful.
     
  15. Quientus

    Quientus Oenophile

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    In all honesty ... - *If* McCarthy thought "going back" to utilizing short passes and slants to "overcome" the current adversity ... don't you people think the Packers would have done that by now ? ...

    Come on ... McCarthy may have his faults, however, he isn't exactly a bad coach ...

    More likely is the fact that the current roster is one man short of being able to fully utilize such plays ... - But ofcourse ... most people won't be able to acknowledge that, because that would have ramifications that would require that some people would have to admit they were wrong ...
     
  16. realoatesman

    realoatesman Cheesehead

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    If Colledge did such a good job why was Lang made starter the next game?
     
  17. A12ROD903

    A12ROD903 Cheesehead

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    No, I dont think we would go back to that. A couple of examples why not.... 1) we have been doing the same thing all season. 8 games in and its the same thing. Nothing new and im not even talking about slants and such. 2) What has McCarthy changed that he said he would (kind of like fixing the penalty problem) NOTHING. The OL has been shoddy for 7 games now, no change there. So of course they arent going to implement these plays, that would require a change. Maybe MM is not fully to blame. Some may lye with the OC.

    I need to edit about doing the same thing. My point was, even if it doesnt work we still do it. They arent changing.
     

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