1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!

    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

We need for Clay to not be m.i.a in MIA

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by rodell330, Oct 9, 2014.

  1. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    Ratings:
    +1,290
    I think it's fair to say that it's been a very slow start for our top defender who is making a nice chunk of change. He looked alright moving around against Minnesota so i don't think his leg is bothering him. If Peppers who's imo been more impactful on defense than Clay can continue to ball and Clay can turn it on this bodes well for the entire defense...sprinkle in mike Daniels who finally looked good against Minnesota and it makes it impossible to double any one guy. Now don't get me wrong i've seen clay get back there a couple times but he's been unable to actually get the sack and he rarely misses. I hope this is the week he catches fire and goes on a hot streak! i said he and Pep would both have double digit sacks.
     
  2. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,792
    Ratings:
    +2,175
    I would agree with the general premise here except for the part of Daniels finally looking good against Minnesota. IMO Daniels has looked pretty good most of the year. His best game was against the Jets, his only negative game against the Bears.

    Performance-wise he's been our best and most consistent player on defense at least so far.

    Clay definitely needs to step up. When you have one star playmaker on defense surrounded by mostly role players, you had better be getting star performances. I don't know if it has anything to do with the way he's been used schematically, but we need Clay to start being Clay again.
     
  3. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    5,389
    Ratings:
    +4,176
    Daniels worst game was vs. the Seahawks. This is what he had to say after that game: " I want to spit on the way I played. I can only speak for myself. It was a pitiful performance." I agree with him, it was a pitiful performance.
     
  4. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,792
    Ratings:
    +2,175
    PFF would strongly disagree. Daniels actually got a very nice +2.8 for the Seattle game, vs. a -1.4 against the Bears.

    I'd take Daniels' comments with a grain of salt as I would expect he especially as an ascending team leader would be hard on himself after a poor team performance like they had against Seattle, but the issues in the Seattle with the run D appeared to be much more with other guys on the D-line and especially at the second level with Hawk and Jones. I think Daniels saying "I can only speak for myself" was a subtle way of saying that the guys around him were absolutely atrocious but he'd rather take the heat than throw them under the bus.

    I haven't gone back and looked at the film from that game. The initial eye test said they all sucked. I'm just telling you what the guys that went back and reviewed the film say about it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    5,389
    Ratings:
    +4,176
    I went back and looked at it and I agree with Daniels. This is what McGinn had to say about him after that game, "Matched against one of the NFL's more massive guards in James Carpenter, Daniels was consistently covered up and displaced. Then, when asked to play on throwing downs, he had little to give and didn't have a pressure."
     
  6. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,792
    Ratings:
    +2,175
    I believe you, it's just odd that he would get such a good rating if it was such a bad game. I realize PFF isn't gospel but I've never known them to be just completely off in the wrong direction. Makes me think there must at least have been some things he did that game to grade out positively.
     
  7. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,523
    Ratings:
    +636
    If you're going to go with a grading metric at least go with FO, PFF is kind of a joke and with good reason.
     
  8. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    Ratings:
    +1,290
    i don'

    I don't know why you guys even read that stuff smh. I just watch how these guys perform in the game and alot of the time you can come up with your own conclusion. I don't need PFF or FO to tell me that and i'm sure you guys don't either.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,523
    Ratings:
    +636
    Clay leads the team in pressures right now with 16. I don't think his lack of production is so much a result of playing poorly or him having less ability but rather I think a lot of it has had to do with Linebacker coverage and safety play. Tough to get sacks if their quarterback is constantly able to get rid of it quickly. But I think that as the safety play continues to improve, or Capers develops more trust in the safeties that you'll start to see more sacks from our front 7 and Clay especially.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. easyk83

    easyk83 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2013
    Messages:
    1,523
    Ratings:
    +636
    Oh I think they're all crap. But I, and other like minded individuals, generally regard FO as atleast being the finest of the turds.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  11. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1,102
    Ratings:
    +515
    Hahaha.
    In the credit industry, I once had a transaction where I had joint applicants. One with awful credit. One with good credit. I asked an experienced credit manager how that would score? He looked at me as serious as a heart attack and said "Twiddle, what does it smell like when you place a piece of crap next to a rose?
    That prolific answer not only drew a picture, it drew a smell.
     
  12. TJV

    TJV Lifelong Packers Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Messages:
    5,389
    Ratings:
    +4,176
    You aren't an evil banker like weeds, are you??!! ;)
     
  13. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1,102
    Ratings:
    +515
    Well, let's just say, concerning questions in here, I learned from the best how to respond with tact and precision, but still not hit the dart board of responses with any accuracy. :tup:
    "I can neither confirm nor deny the question at hand"
    Or I can use the famous "Bill Clinton-Monica Lewinsky" answer
    "I don't remember it that way and I did not say we didn't smoke cigars" :eek:
     
  14. yooperpackfan

    yooperpackfan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    Messages:
    1,147
    Ratings:
    +567
    The eye test and gut feeling are all I need.
    Stats can be twisted any way you want to twist em.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,792
    Ratings:
    +2,175
    While I agree PFF has flaws and I don't always agree with it, I don't agree that its a joke.

    One of the things that makes PFF unique is that its based 100% off visual observation from reviewing film, not convoluted stats.

    Yes, we watch the games too. But generally you and I watch the games with a 6 pack while flipping to the red zone channel on occasion. We generally (at least certainly speaking for myself) don't pay enough attention in the moment to immediately notice which guy on the line couldn't hold a block and allowed backfield penetration, or which D lineman held his position and forced the RB back inside for no gain.

    That's the kind of detail PFF is attempting to observe and typically goes beyond what we can immediately rehash after a game. Can any of us honestly say we were watching all 11 players during every 5-10 second play for 3 hours every week? Is it perfect, certainly not. Does it have value in player evaluations, absolutely.
     
  16. rodell330

    rodell330 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2012
    Messages:
    3,523
    Ratings:
    +1,290
    Bingo!
     
  17. azrsx05

    azrsx05 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2011
    Messages:
    351
    Ratings:
    +217
    With the heat. Mathews will find a way to blow a hammy again.
     
  18. searmh

    searmh Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2014
    Messages:
    64
    Ratings:
    +16
    ive been happy with clays play, i think he gets a lot of focus on him and therefore allows others to get to the QB

    in a few games we have been swarming the QB but just missing on tackles or sacks
     
  19. Oshkoshpackfan

    Oshkoshpackfan YUT !!!

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2012
    Messages:
    3,286
    Ratings:
    +1,456
    Clays problem right now is over pursuit. His motor gets him near, but he is at such a fast push that even cutler side stepped him and ponder did a few times as well. He just cant seem to finish them off. Maybe he can finally get something going vs tannehill this weekend.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1,102
    Ratings:
    +515
    He has over pursued his objective and had much more indirect pressures than actual hits
     
  21. Vrill

    Vrill Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,782
    Ratings:
    +828
    Clay will be fine, hes actually had longer than usual to get a bit more healed up since our last game was on Thursday.
     
  22. adambr2

    adambr2 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,792
    Ratings:
    +2,175
    Not to keep beating a dead horse, but Clay was essentially a non-factor once again. No tackles, only play of note was knocking down a single pass.

    About 40% of the way into the season, this is getting frustrating. We made way too big of an investment in him for him to contribute as a role player.
     
  23. captainWIMM

    captainWIMM Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2012
    Messages:
    12,646
    Ratings:
    +6,605
    Absolutely agree. In addition to being a non-factor he gets fooled on read option and misdirection plays way too often.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  24. Twiddlemylobes

    Twiddlemylobes Fat Tuesday Orleans

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2014
    Messages:
    1,102
    Ratings:
    +515
    I think if there was a more immediate impact on their paycheck reflecting their performance the previous week or month like many of us. This problem would've been solved 3 exits ramps ago
     
  25. 60six

    60six DIE HARD

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2006
    Messages:
    250
    Ratings:
    +65
    It seems hes not able to move laterally with any explosiveness which I believe is groin related.
     

Share This Page