watch "Last day at Lambeau"

[OCBP]

Well ... it was many, many moons ago, but ... I saw the Grateful Dead over 30 times and lived to tell about it. I'm glad those years are over, but in short ... I have no issue with tree huggers and I vote conservatively. That said, you're right!

30 Dead concerts--Gold Star for Flatlander!

 

[TJV]

However, without Favre the 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007 Packer seasons and the Vikings 2009 season would not have materialized to the point of playing in the playoffs and in two cases the NFC Championship game. That is fact.

That is not a fact. That is your opinion.

IMO one Favre-apologist here confuses facts with opinions and another excuses Favre's behavior by blaming it on management. Favre was an adult, responsible for his own actions. He voluntarily retired. Then within a month voluntarily decided to unretire. Then voluntarily decided to stay retired. Then voluntarily decided to unretire. But it's management's fault for thinking he may change his mind again? No. This was a Favre-made mess.

 

[OCBP]

That is not a fact. That is your opinion.

IMO one Favre-apologist here confuses facts with opinions and another excuses Favre's behavior by blaming it on management. Favre was an adult, responsible for his own actions. He voluntarily retired. Then within a month voluntarily decided to unretire. Then voluntarily decided to stay retired. Then voluntarily decided to unretire. But it's management's fault for thinking he may change his mind again? No. This was a Favre-made mess.

Okay Jack--Tell me how the 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007 and 2009 seasons would have played out without Brett Favre on the field. Common on--Give me your opinion! Please don't tell me you can't because we will never know.

I am not a Favre apologist. That is your opinion. I haven't apologized for anything. I state, factually, that he started at QB in Green Bay for 16 season, led them to 2 SB's, was an MVP 3 times, won multiple divisional and conference titles, has nearly all individual QB stat records (including interceptions) and will be a first ballot HOFer. I state he has blown a variety of things on the field and off.

I don't care if he retired, unretired, retired, crapped his pants, took a picture of his junk, has bad personal hygiene, wanted to play for the Vikings, is from the south, etc., etc. He was a football player.

I didn't say others were responsible for his behavior--He is and I'm sure he has regrets.

Again, please let me know how the GB seasons above and the '09 Viking season would have played out without Favre on the field.

 

[PackerFlatLander]

30 Dead concerts--Gold Star for Flatlander!

Oh ... I saw plenty of "stars", alright. It was a lot of fun in the beginning. But it got bad towards the end. Too many idiots showing up without tickets to crash the gates, etc. All they cared about was the free grilled cheese sandwiches, nitrous oxide balloons and the drugs. I skipped what would be the Dead's last shows (Soldier Field) to go to Milwaukee and see Pearl Jam twice at Summerfest instead. I don't regret it. The Dead got out of hand, sadly.

 

[TJV]

Okay Jack--Tell me how the 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007 and 2009 seasons would have played out without Brett Favre on the field. Common on--Give me your opinion! Please don't tell me you can't because we will never know.

You just contradicted yourself. You first present something as a fact and then ask for my opinion on the same subject. Differentiating between what is a fact and what is an opinion is fundamental to any debate or discussion and on this score, you struck out.

 

[OCBP]

Jack--I'm sorry. You are just too cerebral for me, the Favre apologist. I'll attempt to get better and conform to your rigorous standards of debate and engagement.

 

[TJV]

Jack--I'm sorry. You are just too cerebral for me, the Favre apologist. I'll attempt to get better and conform to your rigorous standards of debate and engagement.

Smart *** replies aside (not that there's anything wrong with them generally), differentiating between facts and opinions isn't a rigorous standard nor is it "too cerebral", is it? If you don't see it as a basic element of argument/debate I feel sorry for you.

And I don't know you or AKCheese, but IMO you both post like Favre apologists.

 

[OCBP]

Smart *** replies aside (not that there's anything wrong with them generally), differentiating between facts and opinions isn't a rigorous standard nor is it "too cerebral", is it? If you don't see it as a basic element of argument/debate I feel sorry for you.

And I don't know you or AKCheese, but IMO you both post like Favre apologists.

Let me ask my previous question another way to conform. You started the debate between fact and opinion not me.

What facts point you in the direction that without Favre behind center, that in the '01, '03, '04, '07 and '09 seasons GB and MIN would have been more successful or, at least, as successful?

No need to feel sorry for me, I am quite secure.

And please stop calling me an apologist of any kind. I am not.

 

[NOMOFO]

I'm gonna give it my best shot here on something we can agree on in this thread. Regardless of the bRenT Fverevint opinions, we all agree Brett was very good for the Packers at one point in time, a HOF QB no doubt, and we're blessed to now have Aaron Rodgers. Can we agree on that?

 

[TJV]

You started the debate between fact and opinion not me.

You still don't get it? YOU posted, "However, without Favre the 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007 Packer seasons and the Vikings 2009 season would not have materialized to the point of playing in the playoffs and in two cases the NFC Championship game. That is fact." What you posted was conjecture; it is your opinion only and certainly not a fact. That is so obvious I shouldn't need to point out what you posted is not fact - do you really need that pointed out to you?

So I didn't start the debate between fact and opinion. You did by posting something that is clearly an opinion as a fact. I just corrected you.

BTW, this is more subtle so watch out: I didn't call you an apologist. I posted that you post like one!

 

[OCBP]

You still don't get it? YOU posted, "However, without Favre the 2001, 2003, 2004, 2007 Packer seasons and the Vikings 2009 season would not have materialized to the point of playing in the playoffs and in two cases the NFC Championship game. That is fact." What you posted was conjecture; it is your opinion only and certainly not a fact. That is so obvious I shouldn't need to point out what you posted is not fact - do you really need that pointed out to you?

So I didn't start the debate between fact and opinion. You did by posting something that is clearly an opinion as a fact. I just corrected you.

BTW, this is more subtle so watch out: I didn't call you an apologist. I posted that you post like one!

Tomato/Tomatoe. You are just so incredibly fantastic you should be on television! Are you Mensa or menstral?

 

[TJV]

Tomato/Tomatoe. You are just so incredibly fantastic you should be on television! Are you Mensa or menstral?

What a surprise, no substance whatsoever. Run away little Favre apologist, run away.

 

[OCBP]

What a surprise, no substance whatsoever. Run away little Favre apologist, run away.

Jack--I thought it was pretty clever IMO! And that's a fact! I have to run!

 

[Packerinmissouri]

Thanks for sharing the video. I had never seen it before. Was very interesting indeed.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Mark Murphy said the Packers wanted to have Favre back for a game in 2013, but his high school team kept winning.

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20140415/PKR0101/140415018

 

[PackerFlatLander]

Mark Murphy said the Packers wanted to have Favre back for a game in 2013, but his high school team kept winning.

http://www.packersnews.com/article/20140415/PKR0101/140415018

Well, that may be. However, it doesn't change the fact that you know damn well that in the grand scheme of things, Favre is probably (and rightfully so) terrified that half the stadium is going to boo him. My beef with him is strictly relegated to showing up in 2008 and starting the senseless circus. I could have cared less about him playing for the Jets or Vikings - it could have been the Jaguars, don't care, it's irrelevant. But I'm from Illinois, not Wisconsin. I know for sure that for many Wisconsinites, particularly those who live close to Minnehaha ... him playing for the Vikings was a huge thorn in their craw and my guess is, that still harbors bad vibes.