Was Colin Cowherd Correct?

[Deleted member 6794]

The more I think about it, the more ridiculous I think it is to say Green Bay has not been an elite franchise. Seems like the main premise for dismissing them is that they haven't won more Super Bowls with Favre and Rodgers. No one ever says "They've only won two Super Bowls", it's always "They've had Favre and Rodgers, why didn't they do more with them?". Its not the performance being criticized, it's just ".. But they had Favre and Rodgers". Marino never won a Super Bowl, go talk to him.

I agree that it's disappointing the Packers have only won two Super Bowls over the past 26 seasons while starting Favre and Rodgers though.

I tend to agree with you but if the ultimate goal is the SB and anything else is failure then the Patriots are failures and the Eagles are the only elite team.

The Patriots have been to three of the last four Super Bowls winning two and lost to the eventual champions by two points in the AFCCG the other season. It's ridiculous to suggest them not being elite.

70,000 fans were cheering for the Packers. Maybe 15,000 were Patriots supporters. Going back further, this is a franchise that has lost home playoff games to a domed team in Atlanta, in addition to an average at best Vikes team.

The Patriots have lost home playoff games to the Ravens (twice) and Jets in the past nine season as well. That doesn't mean they aren't elite though.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Would you say the cash cow Cowboys front office ( Jerry Jones) has been elite?

The Cowboys front office has definitely a great job financially but have mostly struggled to put a competitive team on the field. I'm glad the Packers have football people responsible for assembling the roster.

 

[Poppa San]

70,000 fans were cheering for the Packers. Maybe 15,000 were Patriots supporters. Going back further, this is a franchise that has lost home playoff games to a domed team in Atlanta, in addition to an average at best Vikes team.

I am sure every team has lost a playoff game or two to teams they should have beaten. Boils down to your definition of elite. Mine is -- over the course of a decade plus is the team, more often than not, in the conversation for a realistic super bowl run. Only GB, Pitt, NE can say that over the past 10 years or so. Most everyone else is a 3-5 year window at best before another rebuild.

I've given this drivel much more attention than it warrants. I'm out.

 

[XPack]

Cowherd did put 4 team which includes Packers as exceptionally run teams, right?

 

[PackAttack12]

The more I think about it, the more ridiculous I think it is to say Green Bay has not been an elite franchise. Seems like the main premise for dismissing them is that they haven't won more Super Bowls with Favre and Rodgers. No one ever says "They've only won two Super Bowls", it's always "They've had Favre and Rodgers, why didn't they do more with them?". Its not the performance being criticized, it's just ".. But they had Favre and Rodgers". Marino never won a Super Bowl, go talk to him.

Well, that's also an indictment on the Miami Dolphins franchise for never giving him enough to work with. The exact same assertion that Cowherd is making, only with the Packers. How often was Marino supported with a good running game and defense?

The same thing has been happening over the past 8 years with Rodgers and the Packers. The Packers have relied upon the all time great talent of Rodgers, in the same way that the Dolphins did back in the day with Marino. Neither team during the respective time frame supported either quarterback enough.

Now I'll veer away a little from Cowherd in mentioning both QB tenures. I'm not going to harp too much on the Packers with Favre, because I think Favre had more support, and he also threw some Super Bowl opportunities away with interceptions and turnovers.

But what the Packers have failed to do with a generational talent at the quarterback position in Aaron Rodgers is a crime. The man has better playoff numbers across the board than what almost everyone considers the greatest playoff performer of all time in Tom Brady. No matter which statistic you choose to throw out there. TD to INT ratio, yards per game, yards per attempt, QBR, passer rating, completion percentage. All of them favor Rodgers. There might be quarterbacks that can best Brady in a single category, Rodgers laps him in every. single. one. The only time Aaron Rodgers has had a top 10 defense, the Packers won the damn Super Bowl. You look at the utter trash that Rodgers dragged to the NFC Championship game against Atlanta and it does nothing but highlight how much more he could have accomplished with even a respectful supporting cast.

Cowherd isn't 100% correct in his overall theme, but he's most certainly in the ball park.

 

[King of Jeans]

the answer to the question in the thread title is almost ALWAYS

"No".

It's Colin Cowherd. Move the f*** on.

 

[rmontro]

I agree that it's disappointing the Packers have only won two Super Bowls over the past 26 seasons while starting Favre and Rodgers though.

I agree also. The Patriots have obviously been elite. But if you say any team other than the Patriots have been elite during that span, then you have to include the Packers. Or you could say the Patriots have been the only elite team. It just depends on how you look at it. But you shouldn't hold it against the Packers that we've had good quarterback play.

But what the Packers have failed to do with a generational talent at the quarterback position in Aaron Rodgers is a crime. The man has better playoff numbers across the board than what almost everyone considers the greatest playoff performer of all time in Tom Brady.

It is very frustrating. And the team has spent so many draft resources on the defensive side of the ball, all to no avail, I have to think the offense has suffered because of it. We all know about Capers, but I also feel like Thompson has left the team with weak spots on several occasions. Maybe he was limited by the cap, I don't know. Some blame injuries. But there seems to be little doubt that the team has wasted Rodgers over the past several years. Let's hope this year isn't another one.

 

[brandon2348]

I agree also. The Patriots have obviously been elite. But if you say any team other than the Patriots have been elite during that span, then you have to include the Packers. Or you could say the Patriots have been the only elite team. It just depends on how you look at it. But you shouldn't hold it against the Packers that we've had good quarterback play.


It is very frustrating. And the team has spent so many draft resources on the defensive side of the ball, all to no avail, I have to think the offense has suffered because of it. We all know about Capers, but I also feel like Thompson has left the team with weak spots on several occasions. Maybe he was limited by the cap, I don't know. Some blame injuries. But there seems to be little doubt that the team has wasted Rodgers over the past several years. Let's hope this year isn't another one.

Yes, Thompson did leave the team too thin several times in several spots. The sudden career ending injuries too Nick Collins and J. Finley didnt help but Thompson was too slow to reload. His tunnel vision approach to addressing immediate needs was not enough. Overall he failed to use all avenues available to build the best 53 man roster he could despite outcry from the fans and maybe even coaches at times.

 

[sschind]

[QUOTE="captainWIMM, post: 780454, member: 6794"

The Patriots have been to three of the last four Super Bowls winning two and lost to the eventual champions by two points in the AFCCG the other season. It's ridiculous to suggest them not being elite.

[/QUOTE]

The OP mentioned that the Steelers and Patriots only accept a SB win as success and anything less than a SB win is failure. His suggestion that because the Packers have not won the SB recently means they are not elite I brought up the fact that the Patriots did not win the SB last year when 906 mentioned them as elite. The fact that they are elite is why I said I agree with him.

 

[rmontro]

Overall he failed to use all avenues available to build the best 53 man roster he could despite outcry from the fans and maybe even coaches at times.

Agreed. "Next man up" worked in 2010, but for some reason it hasn't worked since.

As for Cowherd, I've noticed he's generally inconsistent in his opinions. I'm sure a lot of it is just stream of consciousness talking to fill time. As tendencies though, he seems to favor large market teams (he's a Giants fan mainly, and he was practically begging LeBron to go to LA), he thinks very highly of Rodgers (now), and he doesn't seem to think much of Green Bay outside of acknowledging that they have a loyal fan base. The "Packers are wasting Rodgers career" theme is one he has visited often, but you can read many similar comments on this forum.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Are the Packers in the same class as the Patriots? No. Are the Packers an above-average NFL franchise? Yes. The Packers have been blessed with dominant QB play and pretty bad opposition within the division.

Also, this entire topic can be placed at the feet of MM who has done little with the amount of talent he's been given. Best QB in NFL history and his offenses have been inept to start games in the playoffs or conservative to the point of ridiculous. Took him almost a decade to embrace modern passing game concepts and he still has issues with the idea of using a RB as a receiving threat.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

The only time Aaron Rodgers has had a top 10 defense, the Packers won the damn Super Bowl.

I agree with the majority of your post but Rodgers had a top 10 scoring defense in 2009 as well when the Packers lost in the divisional round at Arizona. The unit didn't perform at an acceptable level in that game though.

The Patriots have obviously been elite. But if you say any team other than the Patriots have been elite during that span, then you have to include the Packers. Or you could say the Patriots have been the only elite team. It just depends on how you look at it. But you shouldn't hold it against the Packers that we've had good quarterback play.

Once again, I wasn't talking about the performance on the field but the work of the front office in general. The Packers have definitely been one of the best teams in the league over the past decade with the Patriots being the only elite one though.

I don't hold it against the Packers that they have had elite quarterback play over the past 26 years but that they haven't surronded them with enough talent to win more titles.

The OP mentioned that the Steelers and Patriots only accept a SB win as success and anything less than a SB win is failure. His suggestion that because the Packers have not won the SB recently means they are not elite I brought up the fact that the Patriots did not win the SB last year when 906 mentioned them as elite. The fact that they are elite is why I said I agree with him.

The Patriots and Steelers considering not winning the Super Bowl as a failure doesn't automatically result in them not being elite because of falling short last season.

Also, this entire topic can be placed at the feet of MM who has done little with the amount of talent he's been given. Best QB in NFL history and his offenses have been inept to start games in the playoffs or conservative to the point of ridiculous. Took him almost a decade to embrace modern passing game concepts and he still has issues with the idea of using a RB as a receiving threat.

I know you take at shot at McCarthy whenever possible but in my opinion it's ridiculous to suggest the Packers haven't won more Super Bowls because of the offense struggling.

 

[brandon2348]

According to JJ the Packers will be "Elite" soon enough. GPG!

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/201...as-a-bold-prediction-for-the-packers-in-2018/

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I know you take at shot at McCarthy whenever possible but in my opinion it's ridiculous to suggest the Packers haven't won more Super Bowls because of the offense struggling.

Packers lost home field advantage against the Seahawks in 2014 because he refused to run the ball against the Bills. He then lost the game against the Seahawks because he was scared. Packers lost in 2013 to the 49ers in large part because the Packers couldn't score more than 20 points at home despite winning the turnover battle 1-0. I could also point out that he was the guy that Capers around (a fact which most seem to ignore). There's not a huge amount of room between average and great in the NFL. not running the ball against the Bills probably cost the Packers the Super Bowl in 2014. It's things like that that I'm referring to.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Packers lost home field advantage against the Seahawks in 2014 because he refused to run the ball against the Bills. He then lost the game against the Seahawks because he was scared. Packers lost in 2013 to the 49ers in large part because the Packers couldn't score more than 20 points at home despite winning the turnover battle 1-0. I could also point out that he was the guy that Capers around (a fact which most seem to ignore).

I agree that McCarthy entered that Bills game with a terrible game plan and for whatever reason didn't adjust although it obviously wasn't working.

On the other hand you continue to ignore that the Packers faced the top defenses in the league with Rodgers either being hobbled or in his second game back from a broken collarbone in the other games you mentioned but still put up a decent 22 and 20 points respectively. The Packers defense wasn't able to hold average offenses to under that numbers though.

There's no doubt McCarthy deserves blame for holding on to Capers too long.

 

[brandon2348]

Packers lost home field advantage against the Seahawks in 2014 because he refused to run the ball against the Bills. He then lost the game against the Seahawks because he was scared. Packers lost in 2013 to the 49ers in large part because the Packers couldn't score more than 20 points at home despite winning the turnover battle 1-0. I could also point out that he was the guy that Capers around (a fact which most seem to ignore). There's not a huge amount of room between average and great in the NFL. not running the ball against the Bills probably cost the Packers the Super Bowl in 2014. It's things like that that I'm referring to.

Are you forgetting about the ball Jordy dropped on what would of been a walk in TD that would of changed the whole game around against Bills?

That was a massive drop. He basically dropped "Home Field Advantage"

 

[brandon2348]

Packers lost home field advantage against the Seahawks in 2014 because he refused to run the ball against the Bills. He then lost the game against the Seahawks because he was scared. Packers lost in 2013 to the 49ers in large part because the Packers couldn't score more than 20 points at home despite winning the turnover battle 1-0. I could also point out that he was the guy that Capers around (a fact which most seem to ignore). There's not a huge amount of room between average and great in the NFL. not running the ball against the Bills probably cost the Packers the Super Bowl in 2014. It's things like that that I'm referring to.

Can't really put this one MM

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

 

[PackAttack12]

I agree with the majority of your post but Rodgers had a top 10 scoring defense in 2009 as well when the Packers lost in the divisional round at Arizona. The unit didn't perform at an acceptable level in that game though.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Packer Brother]

I agree with the majority of your post but Rodgers had a top 10 scoring defense in 2009 as well when the Packers lost in the divisional round at Arizona. The unit didn't perform at an acceptable level in that game though.



Once again, I wasn't talking about the performance on the field but the work of the front office in general. The Packers have definitely been one of the best teams in the league over the past decade with the Patriots being the only elite one though.

I don't hold it against the Packers that they have had elite quarterback play over the past 26 years but that they haven't surronded them with enough talent to win more titles.



The Patriots and Steelers considering not winning the Super Bowl as a failure doesn't automatically result in them not being elite because of falling short last season.



I know you take at shot at McCarthy whenever possible but in my opinion it's ridiculous to suggest the Packers haven't won more Super Bowls because of the offense struggling.

That was the Wild card game. Arizona went on to get anihilated the next week in NO.

Ted Thompson is responsible for wasting most of Rodgers prime. I also think Murphy finally came to this realization after the Vikings ( Or maybe before) fiasco at home. I believe he gave Ted a choice:
Step down, and call it a " Mutual" decision. Or outright get fired.

I like what the new GM has done thus far. The talent is there. Anything short of a SB appearance, and I believe MM is gone.

That's just my opinion though. New GM's tend to be more cut throat. There's no prior history. If MM does go, nobody can say it was undeserved. At some point, you need to see championships with a generational QB. Personally, I thought he should've been out the door after the Seattle collapse.

Long story short, I think Murphy has realized that the clock is ticking on AR. He'll be 35 by the new year. This franchise is at the SB or bust stage.

 

[rmontro]

Anything short of a SB appearance, and I believe MM is gone.

MM has never been on my head hunting list, although he's been far from perfect. I always thought let's get rid of Capers, and if things don't improve, get rid of Thompson.
But it wouldn't surprise me to see McCarthy on a short lease, what with that one year contract and all. He's got the band back together, with Philbin. So maybe we can see more of that confidence he showed back in 2010. I think he was saying things like "This is our time" because he knew what he had.

But if things don't go well, do we lose Pettine if they fire McCarthy? Might they even offer the head coaching job to Pettine in order to keep him? It's kind of hard for me to picture the Packers with a defensive head coach. That aside, if they move on from McCarthy, they need to be sure they can get someone good to take his place. I don't want to go into a Ray Rhodes/Mike Sherman post-Holmgren type situation (although yes, Sherman was a worse GM than a coach).

Of course, all this talk is very premature, but what else are we supposed to do in the offseason?
Boy, it's going to be weird to see a defensive coordinator on the sidelines!

 

[Raptorman]

Maybe he's wrong about the Packers, but right about the Vikings. You guys will like this one...........

https://bringmethenews.com/minnesot...hinks-the-vikings-will-fall-apart-this-season

 

[Deleted member 6794]

That was the Wild card game. Arizona went on to get anihilated the next week in NO.

You're absolutely right about that.

I like what the new GM has done thus far. The talent is there. Anything short of a SB appearance, and I believe MM is gone.

That's just my opinion though. New GM's tend to be more cut throat. There's no prior history. If MM does go, nobody can say it was undeserved. At some point, you need to see championships with a generational QB. Personally, I thought he should've been out the door after the Seattle collapse.

I don't believe the Packers would think about firing McCarthy if they make it back to the playoffs this season. In my opinion the head coach hasn't been given enough talent to contend for a Super Bowl in several years and I'm not convinced the roster is good enough for it entering 2018.

In addition you have to realize that Gutekunst doesn't have the power to fire MM.

But it wouldn't surprise me to see McCarthy on a short lease, what with that one year contract and all.

McCarthy still has two years left on his contract after he signed an extension during last season.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Can't really put this one MM

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Are we contending that other great offensive coaches somehow never have WRs drop the ball?

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I agree that McCarthy entered that Bills game with a terrible game plan and for whatever reason didn't adjust although it obviously wasn't working.

On the other hand you continue to ignore that the Packers faced the top defenses in the league with Rodgers either being hobbled or in his second game back from a broken collarbone in the other games you mentioned but still put up a decent 22 and 20 points respectively. The Packers defense wasn't able to hold average offenses to under that numbers though.

There's no doubt McCarthy deserves blame for holding on to Capers too long.

Yes, it's always about the Packers having to face an elite defense. Last I checked the Packers have Aaron Rodgers. Why are the Packers always the ones scared of the defense? I also forgot to mention that MM is probably being hindered by the changes in the CBA which reduced his time with QBs. Since that change he hasn't developed anything close to a decent backup for Rodgers and, even worse, he doesn't seem to tailor his offense to fit the QB when Rodgers is out.

 

[Heyjoe4]

This isn't an elite franchise? Personally, I agree with him. Elite is making SB's more than once in ten years with a generational QB. Elite isn't losing championship games where your D forced five turnovers. Elite isn't losing home playoff games to the likes of Eli Manning & Kaepernick.

I know were all fans. But, he definitely has a point. Two SB wins in 26 years with generational QB's isn't good enough. Teams like the Steelers & Patriots only consider SB's as a " Success". I've heard Murphy & others say they still had a " Great" season...after blowing title games or getting their doors blown off.

True, they are popular. But, I think this is an overrated franchise.

Your thoughts? And no, me calling it the way I see it doesn't make me less of a fan. At this point, anything other than a SB win is a failure. The goal is to win titles with # 12. Anything else is just a worst draft position and a wasted season.

http://www.theherdnow.com/radio/the-packers-are-like-an-80s-rock-band-living-off-their-past-hits/

No disagreement from me. Any year with #12 under center should carry the expectation of a SB. As for the “elite franchise” stuff, I really don’t care. Win SBs and they can call you whatever they want, but mostly it’s “champion”.

 

[brandon2348]

Are we contending that other great offensive coaches somehow never have WRs drop the ball?

Simply "contending" that with a GM that knows how to stack the roster and competent defensive coordinator MM won't hold us back from the top prize.