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Wahle / Rivera ... FINAL TAKE.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by Zero2Cool, Aug 22, 2006.

  1. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    First it was we couldn't keep him and I heard "show me the numbers"
    Now we revert to "OK, We could have, but who would we have released"

    Before that it was "there are no good guards TT could have brought in"

    Then after me and several other posters compiled a list it reverted to "these guys are not premeire guys" even though half are starting this year on other teams

    Then I mentioned Hutchinson and it was "we didn't have the money"


    So let me get this straight - We could have kept Wahle but we didn't have the money or the players to release to make the money and TT could not replace Wahle because the premeire guys wanted too much money and the other Guards available for less money were not premeire guys


    This seems to sum up what you guys are saying or have said. Give me a break, your argument is beginning to look very lame.
     
  2. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    And the answer to why we didn't have any money iiissssssss: Because Sherman and Andrew Brandt spent it all!

    8 fricken months! Loved every minute of it guys.

    Be good and have fun watching TT's defense this year!
     
  3. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    Dakota, Warhawk, et al...

    Are you saying that TT couldn't build a respectable team around Brett Favre in 2 years as GM?

    Is so, why not?

    Not having enough money is a common fallacy that people like to float on this board, but if he signed Wahle last year, then 4/5ths of the offensive line would have already been in place.

    Why on earth did TT have to try and rebuild the O-Line, WR Corps, and defense all at the same time?
     
  4. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Oh, I don't know, maybe his predecessor was a horrible evaluator of talent, because he sure couldn't draft worth a damn. Maybe this predecessor was unlucky because he sure couldn't pick the right free agents to give large contracts to. Why was there no depth? That is a hell of a question TA.

    Expand you mind to the time prior to 05 and get to the real answers.

    And for the record, it's only been 1 year for TT not two. The second season has yet to be played. I'm not judging anyone's loyalty to the Pack here, but some of talk like you have already thrown in the towel. I'm looking forward to a better product this year.
     
  5. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Nice response......but.......uh.....uh......where's the answer?

    I will enjoy watching TT's Defense this year because they will be on the field 90% of the time thanks to TT's inability to address the offense.
     
  6. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    That's yet to be determined, Pessimist!
     
  7. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    You're right, I have thrown in the towel. You can't win without an O-Line, period.


    Yeah, he couldn't score gems like Daryn Colledge, Marviel Underwood,Craig Bragg,Cory Rodgers,Kurt Campbell,and numerous others.


    Good thing we have TT in charge now! We can get guys like O'Dwyer, Raynoch Thompson, Earl Little and the latest superstar Marc Boerigter.


    At least when MS was GM we were not going 4-12 and we were making the playoffs. Not real hard to have a good draft when you finish 4-12 AND GET THE 5TH PICK! Don't worry, I have full confidence that even TT has F'ed that up as well.
     
  8. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Yes the king of "YET TO BE DETERMINED" has spoke. I know, we have more TALENT on this roster. To bad that's YET TO BE DETERMINED as well. Hell our 2nd round pick is already riding pine and Rodgers can't catch a friggin Punt.
     
  9. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Good thing we have TT in charge now! We can get guys like O'Dwyer, Raynoch Thompson, Earl Little and the latest superstar Marc Boerigter.


    At least when MS was GM we were not going 4-12 and we were making the playoffs. Not real hard to have a good draft when you finish 4-12 AND GET THE 5TH PICK! Don't worry, I have full confidence that even TT has F'ed that up as well.[/quote:3uo5jyw2]Pyle,

    The Packers tried it your way under Sherman. They spent their wad trying to win now under Sherman, with a total disregard for the future. It blew up in our faces. If you keep getting kicked in the nuts my the same girl, do you keep dating her?

    The Packers moved and I suggest you do also if you can't get on board with the new regime.

    With regards to loser TT free agents to the Sherman guys, well, let's just check the accounts payable ledger over the last six years to find the real moron.

    You mentioned in another post today about other forums bashing TT. Did you read those same forums when Sherman ran the show? Talk about slander and denegration.

    Try to enjoy the season!
     
  10. pyledriver80

    pyledriver80 Cheesehead

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    Pyle,

    The Packers tried it your way under Sherman. They spent their wad trying to win now under Sherman, with a total disregard for the future. It blew up in our faces. If you keep getting kicked in the nuts my the same girl, do you keep dating her?

    The Packers moved and I suggest you do also if you can't get on board with the new regime.

    With regards to loser TT free agents to the Sherman guys, well, let's just check the accounts payable ledger over the last six years to find the real moron.

    You mentioned in another post today about other forums bashing TT. Did you read those same forums when Sherman ran the show? Talk about slander and denegration.

    Try to enjoy the season![/quote:2r3yu7w2]


    Do you make it a habit to put words in other peoples mouth all the time?

    My WAY was to resign Wahle. Not go out and blow money on Terrell Owens.....get your facts straight. By the way I think TT BLEW some money on Woodson.

    I would love to back and check the Ledger fot TT vs MS right after I check the Win/Loss records. In fact I will do it in January because I sure won't be watching any Packer football come playoff time. Funny, I always seemed to do so when MS was GM.


    I guess it comes down to who blew less money. Weird theory. Here I thought it was what kind of product you put on the field all this time. Thanks for straightening me out!
     
  11. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    Dakota T said,

    I know I do...

    But i'm into that kind of thing.
     
  12. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Do you make it a habit to put words in other peoples mouth all the time?

    My WAY was to resign Wahle. Not go out and blow money on Terrell Owens.....get your facts straight. By the way I think TT BLEW some money on Woodson.

    I would love to back and check the Ledger fot TT vs MS right after I check the Win/Loss records. In fact I will do it in January because I sure won't be watching any Packer football come playoff time. Funny, I always seemed to do so when MS was GM.


    I guess it comes down to who blew less money. Weird theory. Here I thought it was what kind of product you put on the field all this time. Thanks for straightening me out![/quote:3d7k6ldn]
    Last week we argued over the "two players away" theory, and that's what I was referring to. Believe me Hoss, there is no way I could speak for you!

    And while we are at it, why do continually refer to people in this forum as ignorant or less informed than you?

    The king of yet to be determined - nice one! Isn't that better than living in "what could have been land" like you. I'm glad you have this forum to release your stress and disappointments, though.

    Good stuff Pyle!
     
  13. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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  14. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    That was beautiful man, I hope we can debate much more in the future! Good having you here!
     
  15. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    No way should TT get a free pass for Wahle. He made a mistake. He though the anchors of the line was Tauscher and Clifton. While they are solid, Wahle was probably our best lineman. I’m sure TT wanted to keep Wahle. He just didn’t want to dish out the $$$ for him.

    Would Wahle of made a difference last year? I don't think much when it comes to the W's and L's. Maybe some but we weren't going too make the playoffs with him. Wahle wouldn’t give us a 6 game turn around.

    I think it's more important to look at this season with Wahle. In my opinion we'd have a better shot at 9 or 10 wins which could give you the division.

    After Favre retires, we don't know what we got. We can make guesses. Like last year the Bears were predicted too finish with 5 or 6 wins tops. They won 11. So GB can turn it around. I think if Aaron Rodgers ends up being that player everyone hopes, we have a shot to do some special things in the future. Do I think he will be that guy? 4 months ago I would've said No way. Now after seeing him improve so much over one year, I think there is a lot more hope.

    In my opinion, the last chance Green Bay with Favre had at a Super Bowl faded away when Freddie Mitchell caught a 27 yard reception on 4th and 26. I thought that was our best team since the Holmgrem era. 2004 we were good but not great and it showed against the Vikings. 2005 I think we were starting to head down hill and it showed. Thompson had very little cap room too work with but the money he did spend didn’t help us at all. The players he did give Sherman, were not disciplined and looked liked they were coach poorly. It’s not JUST Thompson’s fault. It’s not JUST Sherman’s fault. They’re both too blame as our all the players on that roster.

    Sherman is gone because they Thompson couldn’t work well with him. That’s how business in the NFL works. Thompson was the GM. Sherman was the Head Coach. The GM wins. He brought in his own guy. Like I said, I though Jim Bates would’ve been a much better hire. Thompson went McCarthy. It’s a very bold move to go with a not well known guy. McCarthy is an offensive guru and I’ve like what I saw but I also think he might be a little like a poor mans Norv Turner. Good Coordinator but can’t cut it as Head Coach.

    I have no problem with rebuilding. Every team in the NFL does it. The 49ers were probably THE best franchise for 20 years and now they're a 4 or 5 win team trying to build a foundation for the future. It was going too happen to GB eventually and it's happening now. Everyone is having trouble accepting it because Favre is here and they want him to go out like Elway, which probably isn't going too happen. It wasn’t going too happen with Sherman at the GM or Head Coach. A change needed to be made.

    I think Thompson needs to build the foundation of the future. I think it's a wait and see. So far I've loved this off season. I like a lot of the moves outside of the McCarthy hired. So far though I liked what McCarthy can bring and I like the approach Thompson is taking together though. McCarthy is slowly winning me over as a Head Coach. Another wait and see this year.. Next year we'll have a lot of money. I'd like too see him sign a RB, DT, and one offensive guard to help Aaron Rodgers take this team far. If Favre is here, then even better but I think GB has to start preparing for life after #4.
     
  16. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    Porky said,
    What does that mean, "start preparing for life after #4". Does it mean that they haven't prepared for life with him, which is now?

    Why can't they prepare to win with him at the helm now? What is all this hurry up and wait stuff?

    I just don't get that reasoning.
     
  17. DakotaT

    DakotaT Cheesehead

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    Porky do you think if we had Wahle, that we would have gotten AJ Hawk in the draft this year? Wanting Wahle and having him are different things. If we had retained him, I think we would have eeked out more games last year, and our whole off season would have shaken out differently.

    Now, was it a mistake to let him go? There is no defining answer because different variables weigh in. Yeah, Wahle would look great this year, there is no question. We wouldn't have Woodson or Pickett, or probably Manuel either! So then you are left with Gravy, Roman, and Carroll. I'm sure we all wanted another season of that right?

    Nice post BTW!
     
  18. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Favre is 37. He's going to retire with in the next 2 years. Good chance after this season. GB needed too find a future QB. They did with Rodgers. They need to bring in younger players that'll reach they're prime with Rodgers. Jennings, Collins, Poppinga, Hawk, Hodge etc.. All have potential to be starters in the NFL.

    They brought in guys to help the youth movement along. Pickett, Woodson, Taylor.

    You can't by a Championship. It's only happen one time and that was the 49ers. What happen too them. They went into cap hell 4 years later and had a couple of bad seasons. They got out of it for a few years did nothing in the playoffs and are back to square 1.
     
  19. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Andrew said we had more cap space than both of the teams that signed Wahle and Rivera. Now, I don't recall either of them restructuring anyones contract to absurb either of the former Packer players. So I don't know what the fussi s about here.

    The man who first hand deals with the Packers cap space said we could have retained Wahle or Rivera and that we had MORE cap space available than each of the two teams that signed our former guards.
     
  20. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Actually Dak, IMO I think the difference Whale would have made last year would have been 2 wins, tops. Not to mention there isn't anything to suggest Whale wouldn't be injured. If he was, we wouldn't have been worser off than last year. That means 1 more win if Whale is injured.

    That would equate to Huff instead of Hawk, and I don't think that is a bad trade down. Huff is a stud.
     
  21. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Why would Andrew Brandt say on public radio the Packers could have kept Wahle or Rivera and that we had more cap space than both the Panthers and Cowboys when each player was signed?

    Why would he say that if it wasn't true?
     
  22. TomAllen

    TomAllen Cheesehead

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    Exactly Zero, good point.

    and Porky said:
    Isn't that exactly where the Packers are right now, Porky, at square one? Aren't they now the Green Bay 49er's, except with Brett Favre at the helm?
    My point is that they didn't have to be.

    And there's no guaranteeing that Rodgers, based on a couple of pre-season games, is going to turn out to be the next Brett Favre. As a matter of fact, I know that he won't.

    My point is that if you have Favre, you use Favre and build around him now, so that you can win NOW! I know PLENTY of NFL team would have tried to win now with Brett Favre on their team if they had him, yet TT seems to have not cared if he came back at all because his plan was a total reclaimation project from the beginning.

    Why is it all or nothing with you TT defenders. Isn't it possible that TT could have kept Wahle last year, added a receiver and a guard this year, and just focused on the defense (and a kicker) with the rest of his picks instead of fiddle ******* around with all of these players who aren't even on the team anymore because they couldn't make it?

    Nobody has yet given me an explanation to this problem that made any sense!
     
  23. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Dak, with all due respect, if anyone could figure out how to gain extra money from the cap, which Brandt has said was possible, then they wouldn't really be on this forum, instead they would be with an NFL team handling salary cap matters.

    The reason the Pack have guys like Brandt is to think of things no one else would to sign players.

    TA, I think if Rodgers can be a good QB, we'll be set. No one is expecting him to be the next Favre, but replacing Favre is the big matter. That is one tough job, with a ton of pressure.

    TT has done what he did, and he has made mistakes. IMO I don't agree with signing probowl players this year to give Brett one last chance at the playoffs. If we do, then we are throwing away the future for the present, and that isn't a smart move. If Favre was committed to staying for 2 more years, then maybe TT goes out and does a little more, but I don't think it would have been a wise move.
     
  24. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Yes, very true.

    Ted is going to MAKE MISTAKES! Remember people he is HUMAN! Get over it. We all make mistakes only his are magnified because he is the GM of our beloved Packers.

    Let's not dwell on his mistakes too much and lets not praise his good moves too much. Lets just accept him for what he is. The Packers GM and give him a 2-3 year open minded chance at restoring the Packers to the glory we all want.
     
  25. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    The 49er team that bought a Title was coming off of back to back NFC Title losses. This team went 4-12 a year ago.
    Thompson only said he wants Favre back many times.

    Ignorance will probably block you from seeing any sense.

    Draft Picks won’t probably help the defense right away. Definitely won‘t be a Super Bowl defense. We’d have to use the money on defense and offense if this team was to make a realistic run.

    Green Bay goes out and spends money on Terrell Owens (yes only real true WR out there this year and we need that like you said)

    They go out sign Hutchinson for 7 years 52 million. (that’s what it would of taken)

    They sign Witherspoon to a huge contract as well.

    They screw Manuel and make Archuleta the highest paid SS to ever play the game. (that's what it would of taken)

    For kicks let's keep Pickett but give Grady Jackson a hefty contract. (that's the only way too keep Grady Jackson)

    Packers with all that probably go 11-5 and lose to Carolina or Seattle in round 2 of the playoffs. I'm not a psychic but I'd put my money on the field over GB with that.

    Green Bay returns to cap hell and can't do much next off season. Ahman Green probably leaves via Free Agency. Gado is the only back that returns. Favre retires. GB has to cut KGB and Ferguson and take some more cap hits.

    We don't have the money to pay Al Harris so we trade him for a 3rd round pick because he threatening to be cancer.

    Donald Driver requests a trade since we spent all our money on the free agents and we didn't have it to sign him to a new deal.

    Packers probably regress to 7 or 8 wins tops. Misses the playoffs. Remember Favre is gone.

    Thompson is fired, GB is in cap hell. The new GM comes in and does what Thompson is currently doing. He begins cleaning up a cap mess and spending the money wisely and tries and builds for the core of the future. Only fans support him because he doesn't have to worry about buying a Super Bowl for Brett Favre.

    That was just an example.

    Time has past the Packers and Favre by. Favre can still lead a team but probably not the Packers. Favre's best chance at a SB and you'll hate too hear it. Would be with another team. Like I stated, 4th and 26 was the killer to any last realistic shots GB had at a Super Bowl with Favre. Favre has a Super Bowl and his legacy will forever be intact. GB will have to move on eventually and start building for the future. It’s already begun.

    If we go 7-9 or 8-8 this year and Favre returns we'll have a lot of money too play with for the 07 off-season. Green Bay could go out and sign an Offensive Guard, Defensive Tackle, and Running Back. Then Favre will have the best team around him in 2007 probably since the 4th and 26 team. That in my opinion would be the best shot at a Super Bowl for Favre and the Packers together. I think it's more of a 2 year plan right now and yes that means a wait and see.
     

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