Wahle / Rivera ... FINAL TAKE.

[Zero2Cool]

Okay. I was on my way to get Madden '07. First stop was ... of course Wal Mart. Walked around, stalked a **** fine lady, until she noticed and went to the femmy section. Drifted over to electronics where I found the xbox, ps2 etc versions. No where could I find the PC version. I called the other Walmart they didn't have it either.

While driving home ward, I changed direction, due to the heavy traffic towards Best Buy.

Turned on the radio to listen to the fan for the long haul. (15 minutes).

I hear Chris Havel and Harry Sydney talking about cap. Then I hear another voice. It's Andrew Brandt.

Chris asks how the cap is and things like that. Then asks about getting certain players and if its frustrating when you don't have the cap space.

Andrew replied with. You never don't have the cap space, you always can make room. Remember, Joe Johnson? We wanted him but didn't have the space, so we made space. It can always be done. The same can be said about Wahle and Rivera. (this part i quote) "The fact is, we had more cap space than the teams that signed each Rivera and Wahle" He then said it was a decision... A DECISION to NOT retain/resign/restructure the contracts for Wahle and Rivera.

Most of that is basically word for word, however I was so ticked off at traffic (I wanted to get home and post this asap to own up to, well you'll see later) that I can't recall every detail.

This is words straight from the Packers cap man. I trust his word over Wahles word and Rivera's word which I was previously basing my opinion off of.

I was wrong when I said we did not have the cap room to sign either of those players.













Recap, the Packers COULD have signed Wahle and/or Rivera but made a DECISION to let them sign else where.
Andrew's reasoning for that was because the Packers did not want to get into a bargaining war over either player.


For those who I chastised and was rude to about this issue, I apologize.

 

[dhpackr]

i miss whale more than rivera

 

[tromadz]

well it was a decision that hurt the packers in 05, thats for sure.

lets look forward now!

 

[Zero2Cool]

Yeah. I'm glad to finally have a solid, definitive closure on this. Even though I was wrong and made out to be a fool on the issue.

 

[showstopper4]

some people are just born as dumb****s....the packers tried to keep each guy and there were more discussions with rivera's agent then wahle's but they had wink and nod offers from other teams, not to mention there value was so high, the packers were in salary cap hell that year thanks to sherman. Wahle in my opinion is the best Gaurd in the league and at the time we couldnt offer him what he wanted, not to mention there was a rift with wahle and the coaching staff. There was always a chance with rivera, but he wasnt gonna get a huge signing bonus from TT. As much as you'd like to think TT isnt dumb, the people who think we had a chance to compete with other teams that were offering 10 million signing bonus are on crack and are just as ****** up as this havel guy who acts like he knows **** all. Things happen because the guys who make the decisions know whats going on, idiots who try to conjure up there version of what they believe is the truth are not guys to follow. In the end it doesnt matter cause we got a young, bright O line to look forward too in a scheme that rivera and flanagan probably wouldnt fit into. Seriously stop mentioning that TT did not try and keep these pro bowl gaurds, no matter where you read **** like this, if you believe it you become just as big of a **** face as the guy who wrote it.

 

[Zero2Cool]

some people are just born as dumb****s....the packers tried to keep each guy and there were more discussions with rivera's agent then wahle's but they had wink and nod offers from other teams, not to mention there value was so high, the packers were in salary cap hell that year thanks to sherman. Wahle in my opinion is the best Gaurd in the league and at the time we couldnt offer him what he wanted, not to mention there was a rift with wahle and the coaching staff. There was always a chance with rivera, but he wasnt gonna get a huge signing bonus from TT. As much as you'd like to think TT isnt dumb, the people who think we had a chance to compete with other teams that were offering 10 million signing bonus are on crack and are just as f'd up as this havel guy who acts like he knows **** all. Things happen because the guys who make the decisions know whats going on, idiots who try to conjure up there version of what they believe is the truth are not guys to follow. In the end it doesnt matter cause we got a young, bright O line to look forward too in a scheme that rivera and flanagan probably wouldnt fit into. Seriously stop mentioning that TT did not try and keep these pro bowl gaurds, no matter where you read **** like this, if you believe it you become just as big of a **** face as the guy who wrote it.

What exactly are you saying with that really long paragraph? Sorry, I'm really excited about playing madden so my attention span is limited lol


Oh, you're saying the words I heard straight from Andrew Brandt are fabricated? That Andrew Brandt doesn't know what he's talking about?

That's okay, maybe you don't know who he is.

http://www.packers.com/team/staff/brandt_andrew/ <-- that's his bio. He is the Packers Vice President of Player Finance/General Counsel.

 

[cyoung]

I liked Wahle way better than Riveria but I wouldn't mind having either of them on the packers.

 

[eastcoastpacker]

Boy, that was a big screw up,Brett could have used a least one of them last year.Maybe we would not have had as many rb's injuried. JMO

 

[Lare]

Some of us have been saying this for the last year and a half but usually get stomped by those people who think TT can do no wrong. Nice to have it validated by the one person who knows better than anybody else.

And just to clarify, I'm not passing judgement on the decision to not sign Wahle & Rivera. I might have done the same thing in those circumstances. But to say it couldn't be done, or by doing so would have put the Packers into salary cap hell, is just plain wrong.

 

[kewlbeans]

The only rift between Wahle and the staff was $$$.

Assuming resigning Wahle was possible, it looks like TT made a mistake in not resigning him. I'm sure it was a difficult decision but that's what TT gets paid the big money for, We can cut him some slack on his mistakes but he certainly won't get a free ride.

I wish I could read or listen to that interveiw w/ brandt

 

[retiredgrampa]

Well, I must admit that I honestly thought it would have been impossible to pony up the bonus Wahle had coming. Brandt certainly did TT no favor by spilling the truth now, especially with the current problems we're having in the OL. I wouldn't be surprised if he gets called on the carpet over this...of course, we'll never hear of it.

 

[tromadz]

i dont think TT cares that he said this. TT (nor MM) are doing things with the fans in mind. They are doing things to win.

 

[Bruce]

Amen Lare!!! I got worn down writing that it was a choice that Ted Thompson made and that Wahle's CAP number (as signed by Carolina) easily would have fit in GB's CAP.

I figured it was an either/or choice -- to me the choice of Wahle seemed obvious. But Mike kept saying that Ted Thompson was not even talking to his agent, so I thought that they had decided on re-signing Rivera instead -- and so did Wahle.

No one thought he would let both go -- but he did and the Fall from first to last was dramatic and painful. I still think it was irresponsible and something that Thompson should be held accountable (not fired) for.

However, it is the beginning of a new season, this time I am going to side with tromadz and agree that I will be looking at the way he either fixes the problem with the young guys or comes up snake eyes for the second year in a row.

 

[porky88]

No one thought he would let both go -- but he did and the Fall from first to last was dramatic and painful. I still think it was irresponsible and something that Thompson should be held accountable (not fired) for.

Nice stuff, I can respect that opinion right there. I completely agree. Now that we've heard it could of happen, it's easy too say, Thompson should be fired, when in reality every GM in the NFL isn't perfect but it's overcoming your mistakes that ultimately defines your role as GM of a football team. Ron Wolf overcame his mistakes. Mike Sherman ultimately didn't. Let's see what Thompson can do. He needs more than 2 off seasons before we can bring upon Judgment day on him.

On a side note, I wish I could've heard or seen an example on how it could've been done. Such as cutting who and restructuring who's contract. I'm guessing, Favre, Green, and KGB and releasing David Martin, Najeh Davenport, and possibly one more guy.

Edit: How lucky are we that the CBA "crisis" didn't happen in Thompson's 1st year but rather the 2nd or GB would of had to cut even more to get under the cap.

 

[smlutz]

Rivera is washed up, he has his best years in the green and maize. Wahle, however, is being missed terribly.

 

[WinnipegPackFan]

"However, it is the beginning of a new season, this time I am going to side with tromadz and agree that I will be looking at the way he either fixes the problem with the young guys or comes up snake eyes for the second year in a row".

Agree with Bruce. I am still not a TT fan but this is a new season and I hope to become one !!!

 

[rob836]

Really we weren't going to the superbowl last year if we had Wahle and Rivera. But we did put ourself in a better position to make a run for it now.

 

[Bruce]

Really we weren't going to the superbowl last year if we had Wahle and Rivera. But we did put ourself in a better position to make a run for it now.

But had we signed Wahle to the contract that he signed with Carolina we would have him at a CAP friendly number -- and he certainly would be a huge upgrade to any one we have in that hoped for run.

porky88: it could have been accomplished by restructuring Wahle's contract to the numbers that Carolina signed him for. He has said he expected to be playing in GB and he was very happy with those numbers.

 

[DePack]

Amen Lare!!! I got worn down writing that it was a choice that Ted Thompson made and that Wahle's CAP number (as signed by Carolina) easily would have fit in GB's CAP.

I figured it was an either/or choice -- to me the choice of Wahle seemed obvious. But Mike kept saying that Ted Thompson was not even talking to his agent, so I thought that they had decided on re-signing Rivera instead -- and so did Wahle.

No one thought he would let both go -- but he did and the Fall from first to last was dramatic and painful. I still think it was irresponsible and something that Thompson should be held accountable (not fired) for.

However, it is the beginning of a new season, this time I am going to side with tromadz and agree that I will be looking at the way he either fixes the problem with the young guys or comes up snake eyes for the second year in a row.

Exactly Bruce and Lare

These guys attacked the truly knowledgable fans in their typical gen x way. Now that they have been exposed as true idiots "Who cares? Let's look forward". Having Mike Wahle would have helped a little last season but would have done wonders this year. We wouldn't have had to waste 3 picks on the guard position, could have gotten more help elsewhere and would've had a helluva leader in the interior line.

It was TT's DECISION not to re-sign Wahle. He has to live with the consequences. Hopefully Moll and Spitz develop into solid guards but in reality it's a crapshoot.

As for the soon to be banned showstopper.......I'll take Andrew Brandt's words over yours.

Zero, thanks for posting this and stepping up to the plate.

 

[packedhouse01]

The problem with free agency and letting players go and then signing someone else's players is that it's all value judgment. I have no doubt that TT though he could replace those guards. He turned out to be wrong, but I believe he felt that of any position on the line, guard is the easiest spot to play. What happened is that the cupboard was so bare in GB that they had no replacements for either of those two guards. We went from having a dominant, powerful line to having virtually no line. I think at one time last year we had 3 centers playing at the same time on the line. I think TT recognized that and hence he drafted a boatload of guys this year and hopes that one or two will pan out.

Those guys are gone now, and we have to put them out of our mind becasue what is past is past. Let's look to the future.

Thanks for sharing this info Zero.

 

[warhawk]

For every article like this is one that reveals the state this team was in at the time and reflects the significant number of needs that had to be addressed.

When the GM drafts poorly for a number of years and doesn't replace quality players lost thru FA and the personnel is getting weaker and weaker
it is going to come back and haunt you.

Sure, signing Wahle would have been great but would have amounted to a small yellow spot in the snow bank compared to how far this team need to go to be truly competitive.

Wahle is a "tree" in the overall picture. The "forest" is the fact that we had very little cap space, two lineman unsigned that were fixtures in the offense, and a bunch of other holes personnel-wise that had to be addressed. We were weak in many postions, and worse, had nobody to back up guys that probably shouldn't have been starting.

Wahle would have been great but it doesn't hide the fact that we were not in a very good financial position and had no where near enough talent to show for it.

'05 was a story of a very thin team having a bunch of injuries and it turned out to be a disaster. That's not a description of a situation where one guy is going to make much of a difference.

 

[DePack]

For every article like this is one that reveals the state this team was in at the time and reflects the significant number of needs that had to be addressed.

When the GM drafts poorly for a number of years and doesn't replace quality players lost thru FA and the personnel is getting weaker and weaker
it is going to come back and haunt you.

Sure, signing Wahle would have been great but would have amounted to a small yellow spot in the snow bank compared to how far this team need to go to be truly competitive.

Wahle is a "tree" in the overall picture. The "forest" is the fact that we had very little cap space, two lineman unsigned that were fixtures in the offense, and a bunch of other holes personnel-wise that had to be addressed. We were weak in many postions, and worse, had nobody to back up guys that probably shouldn't have been starting.

Wahle would have been great but it doesn't hide the fact that we were not in a very good financial position and had no where near enough talent to show for it.

'05 was a story of a very thin team having a bunch of injuries and it turned out to be a disaster. That's not a description of a situation where one guy is going to make much of a difference.

Look I don't think TT should be fired for this and that's not what this is all about. But if we are going to praise his great moves let's discuss his bad moves. That tree/forrest thing is a bunch of bull. He could have had the same team going into this season plus Wahle, plus another 2nd or 3rd rould rookie that wouldn't have been used for a guard, and been a couple million under the cap.

Instead, I think he has brought in some pretty good talent and left a huge hole in the O-line and left us about 8 mil under the cap.

Which situation would you rather be in? Take the team we have now and add Wahle AND that extra rookie pick and we'd be a lock to win the division.

 

[Packnic]

I agree with you that TT is bound to make a mistake and maybe this is one of them. However i feel everyone is jumping to conclusions hoping to be the first one to spot his mess up. It looks to be on the steady incline so maybe this isnt a mess up it just suffered a little setback.

and warhawk the forest from the trees thing is very nice.

Sure we could have had whale and still been under the cap, but then this coming year were gonna need to sign players like Nick Barnett and throw money towards Harris to keep him around. and while we may have been under a little.... it wouldnt have been enough to sign both those guys and whoever else we may wanna keep this year.

The forest is having a productive team year after year with solid young talent constantly filling in. Without cap money to spare, it becomes a problem keeping the guys you absolutely have to have. Now i know the oline is a little shaky right now, but would you rather have al harris and nick barnett on defense with the rookie line (that is coming together nicely) or Wahle and the same line we have now without harris or barnett next year.

Every signing, every move has implications far down the list... i just think TT is playing to the safe side and making sure he keeps young talent with cap space at all times.

 

[DePack]

You make some good points Packnic but here in eagleland the team is ripped because they win the "Salary Cap" Bowl every year. How many titles has it brought them? And now that window of opportunity may be gone.

With Wahle this year we are a contender. Who knows what next season will bring? Say Favre leaves and Barnett says without Favre I'm not re-signing here? Play for today if you have a chance and a hall of fame QB on the roster.

 

[pyledriver80]

Thank You Zero. Everyone knew Wahle could have been resigned. If he couldn't of TT wouldn't had to admit "He made a mistake"

It was just a way for most to defend TT. Now that EVERYONE knows Wahle could still be in GB they will change thier argument to "risking the future" or something else.

DePack hit the nail on the head. To many people want to pat TT on the back for every right move he makes but will IGNORE and make EXCUSES for the large number of mistakes he makes.