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Message: <blockquote data-quote="packa7x" data-source="post: 446199" data-attributes="member: 6594">(1) I don't know why fans are getting upset that we don't get to see the evidence.  The NFL has never been obligated to be transparent.  We didn't hear this outcry with Spygate.  Did you see those videos?  We didn't even hear this outcry when Gregg Williams was possibly banned for life.  We only heard this outcry when the players union got involved.  The NFL is likely withholding its information to protect the players who provided information.  I don't know if you've ever played football, but being a snitch isn't the best thing to be.  (2) The issues are "conduct detrimental to the game" and "salary cap circumvention" which are both considered, "off-the-field" which is considered to be Roger's jurisdiction.  That is what the players agreed to.  He's allowed to punish as he sees fit.  Case in point, Big Ben.  Dude was never criminally charged with anything, but was initially stuck with a 6 game suspension.  That was reduced to 4 games.  (3) Absolutely off-base.  This has ZERO to do with head injuries and it wouldn't help them at all in court in that matter.  The issue with concussions is NOT from today.  Goodell helped avoid that years ago.  The issue is whether or not the NFL knowingly (they did) prevent the players from knowing the risks of concussions.  Now, since Goodell has admitted to concussions being an issue and taking proactive steps to combat them, they're an assumed risk.  Players know what concussions are, how to treat them, how to avoid them, etc.  If they suffer one, it's on them.  The league has never needed to fabricate something under Goodell to appear to be seriously policing its own.  Let's just go through some of the big situations...Spygate, Big Ben, Pacman, Plaxico, Michael Vick, James Harrison...and its never been afraid to show change toward a safer game...moving kickoffs up, less practices, independent neurologists, emphasis on head-to-head shots.  With all of that, it'd be silly and useless to build a mild correlation to concussions by way of exaggeration or fabrication.  You have a union whose entire job is to throw a wrench in the gears of anything the NFL tries to do to its constituents.  That's not a stab at the union, that's just saying what they do.  (4) Okay, Mike Florio is a horrific choice of a person to side with.  When he posts facts without a slant, then reference him.  You're leaving out the part where the NFLPA gave that letter to the NFL.  What happened there?  The union knows it won't get the info unless they go to trial (think: open your books!) and this is really just a sham to win over public opinion.  After the lockout, the NFLPA gave in to 48% revenue without getting to see the books.  They knew the NFL had financial problems due to rising player salaries, they didn't need to see the books.  Now we have a signed document by Hargrove given to the NFL by the NFLPA which is being used against the NFL because of the vagueness of a line or two.  This some Bill Clinton BS.  "Hargrove, did your coaches tell you to lie?" "Define...tell." (5) This is laughable.  It would matter in a business setting where you're supporting a family on a salary of $50-60K.  If you told anyone that Will Smith, Scott Fujita, Anthony Hargrove, or Jonathan Vilma wouldn't find work if they were mysteriously cut, they would call you crazy.  It's something that was clearly in violation of league rules and those guys, according to the NFL, didn't just fall in line, they helped establish it and they were large contributors to the fund.  They differ from the others when you consider the amount they put in and also their involvement with setting the thing up.  There are ways to deal with these things and the players chose not to do it.  They chose to get in line and play along.Nice summary at the end.  Here are my thoughts about the situation in general.  If you recall, the NFL asked the NFLPA to assist in the player punishments.  They declined.  Red flag No.1 for me.  The NFL DID offer transparency.  We got zero transparency with the coaches punishments.  We were okay with Mickey Loomis vicariously receiving a suspension.  Gregg Williams being suspended "indefinitely" (side note, most teams won't hire him again, if a player for his team takes another player out on a cheap shot, you'll open up a can of worms for negligent hiring).  Sean Payton is out a year.  These guys have families and need money too.  Their involvement in the bounty situation will be far more detrimental for future employment than the players.  We all sat there and accepted it as 100% truth.  Then the players get suspended, and we start to become skeptical because they vocally denied it.  But some never gave the idea that the NFL has no reason to exaggerate thought.  The NFL got Mary Jo White to look over it's evidence twice.  They knew a legal mess was coming.  People are skeptical of her?  Why the hell would an accomplished attorney stake her reputation on a silly employer-employee conflict?  If the NFL doesn't have the evidence, that would unnecessarily tarnish her reputation.  The NFL claims to have 18,000 documents and testimony from people.  There are tons of privacy issues involved with releasing the info.  If an agreement was made to speak privately, the NFL is obligated to uphold that.</blockquote>

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