Vikings
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Profizzle99
Cheesehead
Well said cheesy, you forgot to add that...
"But wait someone is hurt....oh god its a broken leg, a serious break and its Jared Allen, that my be his only sack as a viking this year" Not to inflict pain on anyone but you know, gotta make it dramatic.
Packnic
Cheesehead
Every fan, regardless of their team, is poised to take the division crown in May. If they aren't, well, then they are not very good fans, now are they.
As a Vikings fan, I think 11 or 12 wins is possible but improbable. I think 9 or 10 wins is more likely.
I also think that the Vikings will be challenging the Pack for the NFC north title. The Vikings have talent at every position, with QB being the only question mark. I disagree with the WRs being a question, I think Berrian and Rice will do very well on the outside, and Wade is a great slot. The big unknown is QB.
The Pack, on the other hand, are very similar ot the Vikes. Rodgers is also a question mark, although I think the smart bet would be that he does better than TJack this year. But the Vikings have the edge in defense and running gmae, and so it makes the two teams very much equal IMHO.
i dont see how the pack and Vikes are similar at all. In every offensive and defensive record besides rushing last season the packers were better. The Packers went 13-3 and played in the NFC championship game. The Vikings went 8-8. I understand the excitement for the new season and all... but comparing a playoff team to an 8-8 team isnt exactly accurate.
I dont see how adding Jared Allen makes TJack able to throw a pass to anyone of your below average WR's. Berrian isnt Jerry Rice or even a consistent threat to worry about. So I dont see any improvement in the passing game. And i dont think anyone is gonna confuse Childress for Mike Martz anytime soon... so where is the improvement on Offense gonna come from.
And as far as you guys having the edge on Defense. Sure you got names and big time free agents on the dline and all. but we have 700, 6, and 57. Thats 700 pass yards, 6 TD's and 57 points IN TWO GAMES!!! So much for that edge in defense huh. I hope when you guys traded your draft for Jared Allen, that you at least got some vaseline in the deal. because Darren Sharper is gonna need it again this season. Not to mention we just got WAY more mobile at QB and added depth to our offensive line.
I count the Vikings as a serious opponent next season (for once) but I think there is a long way to go before your in Packer reach. theres always next season ... already.
A1MEANGREEN
Cheesehead
NodakPaul said:Every fan, regardless of their team, is poised to take the division crown in May. If they aren't, well, then they are not very good fans, now are they.
As a Vikings fan, I think 11 or 12 wins is possible but improbable. I think 9 or 10 wins is more likely.
I also think that the Vikings will be challenging the Pack for the NFC north title. The Vikings have talent at every position, with QB being the only question mark. I disagree with the WRs being a question, I think Berrian and Rice will do very well on the outside, and Wade is a great slot. The big unknown is QB.
The Pack, on the other hand, are very similar ot the Vikes. Rodgers is also a question mark, although I think the smart bet would be that he does better than TJack this year. But the Vikings have the edge in defense and running gmae, and so it makes the two teams very much equal IMHO.
i dont see how the pack and Vikes are similar at all. In every offensive and defensive record besides rushing last season the packers were better. The Packers went 13-3 and played in the NFC championship game. The Vikings went 8-8. I understand the excitement for the new season and all... but comparing a playoff team to an 8-8 team isnt exactly accurate.
I dont see how adding Jared Allen makes TJack able to throw a pass to anyone of your below average WR's. Berrian isnt Jerry Rice or even a consistent threat to worry about. So I dont see any improvement in the passing game. And i dont think anyone is gonna confuse Childress for Mike Martz anytime soon... so where is the improvement on Offense gonna come from.
And as far as you guys having the edge on Defense. Sure you got names and big time free agents on the dline and all. but we have 700, 6, and 57. Thats 700 pass yards, 6 TD's and 57 points IN TWO GAMES!!! So much for that edge in defense huh. I hope when you guys traded your draft for Jared Allen, that you at least got some vaseline in the deal. because Darren Sharper is gonna need it again this season. Not to mention we just got WAY more mobile at QB and added depth to our offensive line.
I count the Vikings as a serious opponent next season (for once) but I think there is a long way to go before your in Packer reach. theres always next season ... already.
man dont you just love it :joy: :agree:
I really liked the bolded part. Especially because you seem to forget that the Packers had Fav-re and the Vikings didn't have Allen in those matchups.
Maybe you don't think that Fav-re brought all that much to the table, and Rodgers can easily perform as well as him. I think he was a pretty important part of your offense.
Maybe you don't think that the NFL sack leader lined up next to the best DT pair in the NFL will be formidable. I do.
Go ahead and keep underestimating the Vikings. It will make it much better come September. Hubris.
A1MEANGREEN
Cheesehead
hmmm sounds like wishful dreaming doesnt it :crazy:
A1MEANGREEN
Cheesehead
thats ok noddak just keep noddin
Heck.........he isn't even Codalezza Rice!!! :lol:Berrian isnt Jerry RiceNodakPaul said:Every fan, regardless of their team, is poised to take the division crown in May. If they aren't, well, then they are not very good fans, now are they.
As a Vikings fan, I think 11 or 12 wins is possible but improbable. I think 9 or 10 wins is more likely.
I also think that the Vikings will be challenging the Pack for the NFC north title. The Vikings have talent at every position, with QB being the only question mark. I disagree with the WRs being a question, I think Berrian and Rice will do very well on the outside, and Wade is a great slot. The big unknown is QB.
The Pack, on the other hand, are very similar ot the Vikes. Rodgers is also a question mark, although I think the smart bet would be that he does better than TJack this year. But the Vikings have the edge in defense and running gmae, and so it makes the two teams very much equal IMHO.
Profizzle99
Cheesehead
Packers:
Total Offense: #2
Total Defense: #11
Record: 13-3
Vikings:
Total Offense: #13
Total Defense: #20
Record: 8-8
Just some questions:
Do you seriously think that Allen will push you up nine spots to even contend with our defense?
Do you think that Berrian along with the loss of Favre will put you in contending range with our offense?
Answer(s): No, No
I think you Vikings have to be worried, not us. We are the ones with a RB that has a good line, we are the ones with the deepest WR depth in the NFL, and we are the NFC North Champions.
Total Offense: #2
Total Defense: #11
Record: 13-3
Vikings:
Total Offense: #13
Total Defense: #20
Record: 8-8
Just some questions:
Do you seriously think that Allen will push you up nine spots to even contend with our defense?
Do you think that Berrian along with the loss of Favre will put you in contending range with our offense?
Answer(s): No, No
I think you Vikings have to be worried, not us. We are the ones with a RB that has a good line, we are the ones with the deepest WR depth in the NFL, and we are the NFC North Champions.
You seriously think that Grant will outperform AD? Is he even under contract yet? And you think that your OL is better? Maybe the right side...
I also question your stats.
http://www.nfl.com/stats/
Offensive Points per Game
Green Bay: 27.2 - 4th
Minnesota: 22.8 - 15th
Defensive Points per Game
Green Bay: 18.2 - 6th (T)
Minnesota: 19.4 - 12th
So to answer your questions,
1) Do I think that the loss of Fav-re and the addition of Berrian will allow us to contend with your offense? Very possible. I think Fav-re was worth 5 points per game at least. I hated playing against the man, but I recognize what he brought to the table.
2) Do I think the addition of Jared Allen will push us up the list. Absolutely. Putting the NFL sack leader next to the best DT tandem in the NFL, and giving him a faster field to work with in the dome, is definately going to make a difference.
To be honest, I don't expect the Vikings offense to be able to content with the Green Bay offense. Our QB is too questionable for me to feel comfortable saying that. However, I do expect our defense to be in the top five or better this year. And I don't see how you can say that is unrealistic. Take the glasses off and look at it objectively.
A1MEANGREEN
Cheesehead
]
you know nodak you and i disagree on alot of things it seems but i agree with you about not wanting players to get hurt. and by the way meangreen is because i spent 6 years as a army ranger just wanted to clear that up for you :USA:
Doesn't change the fact that you are still a viking fan!
thanks to both of you for enabling my son and I to sleep peacefully...
LOL.
I actually was watching the 98 NFC Championship game from Kuwait. I had my SAW and 210 rounds with me at the time.
For some reason nobody felt the need to give me **** when Atlanta beat the Vikings...
A1MEANGREEN
Cheesehead
NodakPaul said:
Doesn't change the fact that you are still a viking fan!
thanks to both of you for enabling my son and I to sleep peacefully...
:thumbsup: thanks yeah nodak is a viking fan but he aint all bad
Passing offense:
Packers: 270.9 YPG (2nd)
Vikings: 171.6 YPG (28th)
Our passing game sucked last year, no doubt about that. Viking fans are hoping that TJ will be coached out of his tendency to throw jump passes when the pocket breaks down, and that the game will 'slow down' for him, as you often hear it does for 3rd year QBs. He is still a question mark. The wide receivers have definitely been firmed up with the addition of Bernard Berrian. He had 951 yards on 71 passes. The man he's replacing had 18 catches for 240 yards. While I don't know if Berrian can get the same numbers in Minnesota's run first offense, he will make a difference in the passing game. Sidney Rice opened some eyes with some amazing catches in his first year, and should be a solid #2 guy.
The Packers, on the other hand, lost their main weapon in their passing game, their HOF QB. Aaron Rodgers is still unknown as a starter, and while it is reasonable to expect that he will be a serviceable QB, I think it is unrealistic to expect that the Packers will put up the kind of numbers in the passing game that they did last year.
The Packers will most likely still have the better numbers in the passing game at the end of 2008, but the style of offence that each team runs almost dictates that outcome. I fully expect both teams to be much closer to the middle of the league.
Rushing Offense:
Vikings: 164.6 YPG (1st)
Packers: 99.8 YPG (21st)
The Vikings have possibly the best RB in the game. I think it's uncontested that they have the best 1-2 combo of running backs in the game. They have a strong O-line blocking for them. There is the question of McKinnie's possible 4 game suspension, depending on how his legal matter is resolved in June, but the Vikings were good at running both to the left and the right last year, even with the lesser talent on the right side of their line. There is no reason to believe that the Vikings can't have the #1 rushing offense in the league again next year. They'll have a harder time of it, since no one will be surprised by Adrian Peterson this year, but it is definitely possible. The Packers rushing game is going to suffer due to defenses not respecting the passing game as much. Unless Aaron Rodgers proves that he can be as effective as Favre, the run game is going to suffer.
Pass Defense:
Packers: 210.4 (12th)
Vikings: 264.1 (32nd)
Those numbers above don't tell the whole story between these two teams. The Vikings, due to their stellar rush defense, faced 646 attempts against them last year, the most in the league, and 112 more than the Packers. When you factor in the number of attempts, and look at yards allowed per attempt, the Vikings are 15th in the league, and the Packers are 13th; much closer than the numbers above show. The Vikings' main problem against the passing game last year was the lack of a consistent pass rush. When they were able to put pressure on the QB, the secondary played well (4 INT and 3 DEF TDs vs NYG). All too often, though, the secondary was forced to cover receivers longer than they should, and the D line was not able to make the QB throw the ball. The Vikings remedied that by adding a guy that led the league in sacks last year, and has averaged almost 11 sacks a year in the four years he's been in the league. If the Vikings had given up 30 less yards per game last year, their defense would have been ranked in the top ten. That's 3 or 4 more incompletions per game. I think the added pressure that the Vikings D line will be able to apply this year can account for that. The coverage abilities of our new safety, Madieu Williams, will help as well.
Rush Defense
Vikings: 74.1 YPG (1st)
Packers: 102.9 YPG (14th)
The Vikings have had the #1 rush defense for two years running. Again, there is nothing to indicate that they can't do it again. I don't think much else needs to be said in this category
So what you have is two teams with strong defenses, and some strengths on offense. However, both teams have quarterbacks at the helm that are the main question mark going into the season. The Vikings don't know how their three-year-project, Tarvaris Jackson, will fair in his third season, and the Packers don't know how much of a drop off there will be from Favre (253 career starts) to Rodgers (0 career starts).
Very nice summary Josdin. I like this part:
And yet the Packers are supposedly "the ones with a RB that has a good line" according to the previous poster...
All in all I think your summary is right on. The Vikings and Packers are two very similar teams who will both be contending for the NFC North title this year.
And yet the Packers are supposedly "the ones with a RB that has a good line" according to the previous poster...
All in all I think your summary is right on. The Vikings and Packers are two very similar teams who will both be contending for the NFC North title this year.
While Favre certainly accounted for several points, keep this in mind. He adjusted to McCarthy's gameplan of letting the receivers work at getting yardage rather than Favre having to make spectacular throws all the time. So while losing Favre may hinder the offense initially, our receiving corps are all still there.
And I can not let you Vikings fans cannot skew the running game details. Take a look at how the last half of the season went for the Packers running game (aka: Grant's domination time) and we are much better than those stats show. If Grant runs the way he did last year, I see him having no problem being 2nd behind Peterson in the NFC.
And I can not let you Vikings fans cannot skew the running game details. Take a look at how the last half of the season went for the Packers running game (aka: Grant's domination time) and we are much better than those stats show. If Grant runs the way he did last year, I see him having no problem being 2nd behind Peterson in the NFC.
Profizzle99
Cheesehead
You know what I like best about this post?
You say the fact that you were the worst pass defense team in the NFL doesn't really count but then you say the Packers rush yards a game does count. Let me remind you Grant only started 7 games and had much less carries than AP, we will be leaning on him more next year and he will start from the get-go so that is not accurate just like you said about your pass defense. You talk about our rush game suffering? Well you managed to do it with a worse QB than us and we have a top 3 OL so hmmm I think our rush yards will go up rather than down. As for AP because he is the only weapon on the field I think his rush yards will go down even if he is just a gem to watch. Now that EVERYONE knows AP will get the ball 4/6 tries, there is no way he gets +1500 yards. I am just going by your same theory that we will have a worse running game because we wont pass as well IMO.
Also Sidney Rice DID open my eyes with his 396 yards and 4 TD's
If thaat is your best Wide you need help, like Bernard Berrian wait...oh he has a worse QB now
.You know what I like best about this post?
You say the fact that you were the worst pass defense team in the NFL doesn't really count but then you say the Packers rush yards a game does count. Let me remind you Grant only started 7 games and had much less carries than AP, we will be leaning on him more next year and he will start from the get-go so that is not accurate just like you said about your pass defense. You talk about our rush game suffering? Well you managed to do it with a worse QB than us and we have a top 3 OL so hmmm I think our rush yards will go up rather than down. As for AP because he is the only weapon on the field I think his rush yards will go down even if he is just a gem to watch. Now that EVERYONE knows AP will get the ball 4/6 tries, there is no way he gets +1500 yards. I am just going by your same theory that we will have a worse running game because we wont pass as well IMO.
Also Sidney Rice DID open my eyes with his 396 yards and 4 TD's
If thaat is your best Wide you need help, like Bernard Berrian wait...oh he has a worse QB now
LOL. You know what I like best about your post? The fact that you seem to honestly believe that Grant will do better than AD this year. I don't even know what to say. For that matter, it probably doesn't matter what anybody else says... you have already made up your mind.
Hope and optimism are one thing. Ridiculous expectations are something else. I hope you don't come crashing down to earth too hard...
AP might do better then Grant........but then again, thats ALL the Vikings have. We have Grant, and then our WR's which are on a whole different plane then what the Vikings have.Profizzle99 said:You know what I like best about this post?
You say the fact that you were the worst pass defense team in the NFL doesn't really count but then you say the Packers rush yards a game does count. Let me remind you Grant only started 7 games and had much less carries than AP, we will be leaning on him more next year and he will start from the get-go so that is not accurate just like you said about your pass defense. You talk about our rush game suffering? Well you managed to do it with a worse QB than us and we have a top 3 OL so hmmm I think our rush yards will go up rather than down. As for AP because he is the only weapon on the field I think his rush yards will go down even if he is just a gem to watch. Now that EVERYONE knows AP will get the ball 4/6 tries, there is no way he gets +1500 yards. I am just going by your same theory that we will have a worse running game because we wont pass as well IMO.
Also Sidney Rice DID open my eyes with his 396 yards and 4 TD's
If thaat is your best Wide you need help, like Bernard Berrian wait...oh he has a worse QB now
LOL. You know what I like best about your post? The fact that you seem to honestly believe that Grant will do better than AD this year. I don't even know what to say. For that matter, it probably doesn't matter what anybody else says... you have already made up your mind.
Hope and optimism are one thing. Ridiculous expectations are something else. I hope you don't come crashing down to earth too hard...
So......Peterson will probably run for more yards......but the Packer's O will be balanced, and be WAY more productive. And thats all that matters. Ask the Lions and Barry Sanders......look at how many SB trophies a great RB and nothing else gets you.
AP might do better then Grant........but then again, thats ALL the Vikings have. We have Grant, and then our WR's which are on a whole different plane then what the Vikings have.Profizzle99 said:You know what I like best about this post?
You say the fact that you were the worst pass defense team in the NFL doesn't really count but then you say the Packers rush yards a game does count. Let me remind you Grant only started 7 games and had much less carries than AP, we will be leaning on him more next year and he will start from the get-go so that is not accurate just like you said about your pass defense. You talk about our rush game suffering? Well you managed to do it with a worse QB than us and we have a top 3 OL so hmmm I think our rush yards will go up rather than down. As for AP because he is the only weapon on the field I think his rush yards will go down even if he is just a gem to watch. Now that EVERYONE knows AP will get the ball 4/6 tries, there is no way he gets +1500 yards. I am just going by your same theory that we will have a worse running game because we wont pass as well IMO.
Also Sidney Rice DID open my eyes with his 396 yards and 4 TD's
If thaat is your best Wide you need help, like Bernard Berrian wait...oh he has a worse QB now
LOL. You know what I like best about your post? The fact that you seem to honestly believe that Grant will do better than AD this year. I don't even know what to say. For that matter, it probably doesn't matter what anybody else says... you have already made up your mind.
Hope and optimism are one thing. Ridiculous expectations are something else. I hope you don't come crashing down to earth too hard...
So......Peterson will probably run for more yards......but the Packer's O will be balanced, and be WAY more productive. And thats all that matters. Ask the Lions and Barry Sanders......look at how many SB trophies a great RB and nothing else gets you.
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