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Vikes acquire Jared Allen

Discussion in 'All Other Team Discussions' started by bozz_2006, Apr 23, 2008.

  1. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Wikipedia is probably the best page on the internet. No, it's not always accurate, but it's the first source to find out pretty much anything about anything.

    I know it makes people look cool when they bash Wikipedia, but let's be fair - a page that is viewed constantly gets corrected constantly. A page that nobody cares about is more likely to be inaccurate.

    There have been times when people try to put false info into a page and the administrators will lock it and then fix it.

    Wikipedia is the best example of everything that is right about the internet. It is one site that I contribute financially to, because it's a site designed to give people information. And that's what the internet was supposed to be about in the beginning, NOT just making money.
     
  2. NodakPaul

    NodakPaul Cheesehead

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    I don't think anybody is expecting him to single-handedly lead the Vikings to the Super Bowl. If the Vikings make it to the Super Bowl, it will be the result of the entire team coming together and performing. I think the Vikings offense has a lot farther to go to make us SB contenders than the defense does.

    However, I do think that Allen's addition was a significant part of the puzzle which should make the Vikings contenders in the NFC North this year. And, while there are some rational fans like yourself who are not selling Allen short, there are still a LOT of packer fans here who seem to think that just because he plays in purple, then he will be completely ineffective against the Pack...
     
  3. NodakPaul

    NodakPaul Cheesehead

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    I like Wikipedia, but if you use it then you must realize that it does NOT go through a verified editing process, and inaccuracies are found AFTER publication, and then only if someone complains.

    It is also incredibly subjective, with opinion often being confused or passed off as fact.

    Take the page on Brad Childress for instance, since it is the one you referenced earlier:

    The second sentance implies that Johnson, Wiggins, and Taylor wanted out of Minnesota because they didn't like Childress. Let's set the record straight.

    1) Johnson wanted out of Minnesota because he felt that he could still be a starter in the NFL. Minnesota released him from his contract so he could pursue a starting spot. He left Minnesota very amicably, and it had nothing to do with his view of Childress, who he supported time and time again in press conferences.

    2) Wiggins was cut, and complained about being cut afterwards. He didn't ask for any release, he had a poor performance and didn't fit in with Childress's system. BTW, where is he playing now? No where. He was a popular player, but not that good.

    3) Taylor, like Wiggy, wasn't anything great, and after being released by the Vikings, was released by the Raiders and St Louis before signing a 2 year with Carolina. This obviously means that the coaching staff on those teams are horrible too. Or maybe it's Taylor... hmm.... Also, a big part of his release was his off the field involvement, including getting tasered at a nightclub in Minny.

    BTW, I love how in that entire Criticism section on Childress's wiki page, NONE OF IT IS CITED. That is because it is the conjecture and opinion of one person, the person who wrote it. Yet it is passed off as fact the whole time.
    Many fans? How many is that? A majority? 50%? Twelve? And most fans with a brain knew why Childress wasn't using him. It is just that many disagreed with it. So either the person writing that page is an idiot and can't figure out why, or he or she is expressing their opinion and passing it off as fact.

    I like wikipedia quite a bit. I use it as a resource all the time. But I do NOT accept it as any type of authority. Instead, I use it to find information, and then verify the information I find at a reputable site before I use it.
     
  4. Vikeman

    Vikeman Guest

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    The only true answer to this thread is week 1. All of the pressure lies on the Packers as the defending NFC North champs. I personally think the Packers are the better "overall" team until proven otherwise. Week 1 will be the denominater. I have learned the hard away about predicting or boasting the Vikings future success...so I will not. A trip to the playoffs is all I expect this year. Anything less is a failure and Childress takes the brunt of the blame.

    I have not been an ardent Childress supporter the past two years but I am still willing to give him another year. Beating the Pack week 1 is a step in the right direction...and is well overdue for our fanbase.

    For the record I have always liked the Packers players. It's the fanbase which annoys me. I like your team and your chances this year. Kampman is my favorite non-Viking player. But comparing Grant to Peterson is like comparing Driver to Sydney Rice...just doesn't make sense.
     
  5. Zeus

    Zeus Cheesehead

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    I have to assume this is the Wiki-blurb to which you are all referring:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brad_Childress

    Now - you all should note that this section is opinion. Not fact. No attribution was made, no links to articles stating these things - just a free-form bitch-session about Childress.

    I point to this:
    6-10 his first year with mostly Tice's leftovers on the team and an ancient weak-armed Brittle Brad Johnson as the QB.

    8-8 his second year with a larger group of players he brought on board and a rookie in Tarvaris Jackson as the QB.

    That appears to be improvement to me.

    =Z=
     
  6. Zeus

    Zeus Cheesehead

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    I like Wikipedia too, and turn to it often.

    But it is hardly infallible, as you seem to imply.

    =Z=
     
  7. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    I am not at all saying it is without error.

    Read what I said more closely.

    The pages that have more people going to them have less mistakes. The ones that don't get the hits of course will have more mistakes, because there are less people correcting them.

    And of course, the criticism section is opinion. There was plenty of criticism of MM. He took note of it. My biggest criticism of him in '06 was he was downright HORRIBLE at halftime adjustments. In '07, that became his strength.

    Will Childress fix his problems? I'm guessing no.
     
  8. Zeus

    Zeus Cheesehead

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    Thing is - I disagree with most of that "opinion". I don't believe he has problems.

    6-10 in 2006.
    8-8 in 2007.
    And we'll see in 2008.

    As to McCarthy - it's amazing how smart you can look when your hall-of-fame QB actually plays within himself, rather than trying to gun it into double-coverage all game.

    =Z=
     
  9. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Childress has too much talent on his team to be 8-8. 8-8 is a result of bad coaching. I've watched a few of your games. Your players are good. Your playcalling stinks. Your halftime adjustments are pathetic.

    But alas, it's all just guessing now. We will see in '08. I'm guessing you will be 9-7, even with your additions.

    I'm also guessing that fans will be calling for Childress's dismissal. They will realize what I said earlier - you have too much talent to be an average team.
     
  10. NodakPaul

    NodakPaul Cheesehead

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    You see, this is why I think you are a pretty intelligent fan. In the wake of some asinine posts by your fellow green and gold bretheran, you make some good points.

    Out half time adjustments are horrible. You are absolutely correct there. Play calling has gotten much better over the past year, but is was bad in 2006.

    My hope is that Childress continues to learn and grow as a coach. If you want to compare MM with Childress, I will give you the edge. However, I think we have the talent to even the score this year. :)
     
  11. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Why would our fanbase annoy you???
    Fact is, there are jerks and great fans of all teams. I have met PLENTY of jerk Viking fans........some of them have even come here for short stays. But i have also met some GREAT Viking fans, who i would be proud to party with.
    It's sure not fair to lump all fans of any team into one and judge them all that way. Yes....i know there are jerk Packer fans too. And i am embarrassed at some of their actions.

    Now........comparing Grant to Peterson........Peterson has had ONE decent season. He may "hit the wall" this year. Grant has had 1/2 decent year. (He wasn't here for the entire year) so comparing the 2 is still possible. Neither has done anything long term yet, and Grant put on a heck of a show the short time he was here. Teams now have film on AP, and he might not fare as well this year. Now......he might also explode and be a star.......so could Grant for that matter. Only time will tell.
     
  12. Zeus

    Zeus Cheesehead

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    NP - neither you nor I possess the knowledge nor the insight to accurately say "Our half time adjustments are horrible." or "Play calling has gotten much better over the past year, but is was bad in 2006."

    WE don't know what plays were called.
    WE don't know who failed to execute the play that was called.

    I am, quite frankly, sick and tired of that "bad playcalling" BS.

    =Z=
     
  13. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Zeus - I disagree.

    A lot of us spend hours watching football games every week. Yes, we are entitled to our opinions and yes, a lot of us have informed opinions.

    You can make comparisons between coaches and coaching styles. Yes, you are entitled to do that.

    I watched MM, who I rank as a top #5 NFL Coach, get outcoached by Coughlin as we lost in OT to the Giants.

    Then I watched Coughlin outcoach who I once considered the best playcaller in the NFL in the SB. He beat a superior team with great playcalling (and of course, the Giants played like the fictional Rocky Balboa, which was a huge difference as well).

    As a musician, I can tell which professional guitarists are better than others. I can tell which singers are better than others. I could tell which drummers are better than others.

    As a sports fan, I could tell which coaches are better than others. I could tell who has better playcalling. I could tell which teams seem to have better morale. I could tell who loses their cool and who kept their cool. For example, Tom Brady lost his cool in the SB and it showed when he went off on the one guy who was doing everything RIGHT - Wes Welker.

    This pretending we're all stupid is ludicrous. A lot of us know what we're doing. A lot of us have coached on some level as well, including myself. Am I good enough to coach on a college level? NO. But I could still critique coaches on a professional level and tell you which ones are better than others.
     
  14. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Good post Zombie.
    We judge situations by what we see results wise. If the players don't execute the plays properly, that ultimately falls back on the coaches too. They must not be getting their players properly prepared if once they get on the field they don't execute the called plays properly. If they don't, then it's the coaches job to put people in there that CAN execute the plays properly.
    We can only go by what we see, and MM has done a decent job of getting the people on the field that can do the job. He has been outcoached, like you said, but i believe he will learn from that and "fix" the problem. Childress so far hasn't proven that he can do that (which is good for us! I hope he keeps it up!)
    Holmgren cost us SB 32 by being unwilling to listen to his players, and make the adjustments needed to win that game. He was too big for his britches, and it cost the Packers the chance to win that game. (That info came out well after the game. Many players and coaches were mad that he refused to listen to them) To me, being a good coach also means being willing to listen to others opinions when it matters, and not letting your ego get in the way. You are resposible for the final say so, but be willing to take it ALL in and use it to your advantage. That makes a good coach.
     
  15. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    Thanks Cheesey.

    I don't know if you remember, but I was very vocal about complaining about MM's inadequacies at the beginning of the '07 season. He was downright awful at half-time adjustments. By game 3, I saw that that was now his strength. He was making downright killer adjustments, so at halftime, the game was close, but after halftime, we slaughtered them.

    You have to be able to adapt in the NFL. Things change so fast. Os are a lot more complex and Ds are too. MM will learn from what happened against Coughlin and you won't see him do the same mistakes in '08. The guy's brilliant. He learns from his mistakes and doesn't repeat them. He's a hardworking maniac, and I have full confidence MM is the Coach who will win us a SB.

    The Coaching talent comparing MM and Childress is night and day. MM does circles around him. Childress has a very solid team with some sick playmakers, but he doesn't have what it takes to take the team to the next level. Had Coughlin or Bellichick been coaching the Vikes, I'd be very, very worried.
     
  16. cheesey

    cheesey Cheesehead

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    Fortunatly Zombie, we don't have to worry!!!LOLOL!!!
     
  17. Zeus

    Zeus Cheesehead

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    Well - you're entitled to disagree.

    But NOTHING you wrote there contradicts what I wrote:

    You can observe what happens when the play is run, but you do NOT know what play was called, what defense was called, what assignments were made and what assignments were missed.

    You seem to believe that by observing the action you can form great insights into what was called. Well - the run behind the LG that goes for 10 and the run behind the LG that is dropped for a 2-yard loss are probably the same PLAY. Was one call good and the other bad?

    Hard to judge if you don't know the defense, isn't it? Hard to judge if you don't break down who made their blocks and who didn't? Hard to judge if you don't make note of the DT missing the tackle and the MLB filling the hole?

    Please. Arm-chair "experts" are wrong more times in the first 5 minutes of the first quarter of the first game than NFL coaches are during the entire season.

    At least I have the sense to admit that my knowledge is dwarfed by theirs.

    =Z=
     
  18. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Imagine this...


    You see a car swerving in it lane at 4:30am ... crossing the center line repeatedly and speeding down a suburban street... you see the police officers pull the car over before he has struck anyone.. you see the man stumble out of the car.. over the scanner you hear the driver has been arrested twice before for OWI offenses..

    Rejoice Vikings rejoice.. you just invested heavily into a three strike risk.. you see in the paper where people rightfully scold multiple offenders in the comments of the stories, or message boards or blogs.

    Yet this gent just locked up a multi-million dollar deal, basically laughed off his problem by autographing his citation.. and it is rejoiced.

    And we wonder why this country has issues and messed up priorities..

    http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2006/9/30/983/45836

    But hey.. it has been done before.. see LT, Darryll Strawberry, etc...
     
  19. NodakPaul

    NodakPaul Cheesehead

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    So how did Koren Robison work out for you guys BTW?

    Alcoholism is a disease. Nobody laughed it off. Both the Vikings and Allen are taking it very seriously. The Vikings have protected themselves contractually from Allen having another setback. And Allen has made it clear that his drinking days are behind him.
     
  20. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Last I knew K-Rob's contract did not need 50 Brinks trucks to dump cash on him..Was a min risk with HUGE potential gain..


    No one knows for sure that Allen is going to stop drinking and driving..He says he will, but honestly that is just lip service...He has to prove it EVERYDAY

    And the protection the Vikings have is only good for 2 years..

    Food for thought..K-Rob vowed to get better, and then went to Minnesota, what happened to him there?


    Once again people think Allen has the talent is one of the better players, but some people have a hard time with players that have have a drinking issue
     
  21. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    I think I need to make myself clear, first I believe that everyone is entitled to a second chance. I hope for his sake that those days are behind him.

    Major difference in the contract and price given up to obtain the player.. in terms of Robinson and Allen. We picked up KRob on the wire and signed him to a minimal deal. Low Risk... and as it turned out low reward as well. How will the Allen deal work.. time will only tell.

    But has Allen really taken his offenses seriously? He signed a DUI citation as a joke.. to me that doesn't seem like taking it seriously.. if nothing else it was poor taste.

    I am not really trying to rip the Vikings.. moreso fans in general. If Allen was someone that just showed up in a post within a paper in rural MN or WI, there would be comments ripping the guy to shreds and condemming him for his poor choices.

    Yet attach him to a sport in which he can play at a high level.. and all is forgotten, forgiven and is in the past. Yet in Allen case.. after strike three.. what did he decide to do.. invest in a bar. Granted the bar closed.. but the reason stated for readings is because Allen himself had changed teams and moved. Wonder is lack of personal appearances had anything to do with it.

    In summary.. I figured I would restate my opinion that the risk in this case is great... maybe even to great for the potential rewards.

    BTW... how come someone like Thurman gets nailed twice for alcohol and drug offenses, has served one full year suspension already and has just been suspended again.. yet Allen whom has 3 on his record serves little to nothing?
     
  22. IronMan

    IronMan Cheesehead

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    Saying everyone that drinks and drives has a " disease" is a slap in the face to those who drink responsibly.
     
  23. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

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    You know what's annoying?

    It's people who think you have to have a ******* degree in everything to have an opinion.

    People like you are the people the author of Wizard of Oz were making fun of.

    By the way, Mr. Have To Be An Expert To Have An Opinion About Anything, know a woman who felt a lump in her breast. Mr. Degree Doctor said it was nothing. She's now dying of breast cancer, for it has spread to the rest of her body. She's already lost both breasts. But of course, her opinion means nothing, right? Because she's just an armchair expert and doesn't have a degree, nor any experience playing doctor.

    Damn, people like you annoy me.
     
  24. IronMan

    IronMan Cheesehead

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    =Z= just got :eek:wned:

    =IM=
     
  25. Formo

    Formo Cheesehead

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    He didn't say everyone that drinks and drives or people who drink responsibly.. He said alcoholism. Which, probably means alcoholics.

    Just saying.
     

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