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Unusually Unruly Offseason

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by El Guapo, Jul 14, 2015.

  1. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    After many years of relatively few off-field problems, Packers players have popped up quite a few times in 2015 already. Guion had is stash confiscated, Datone was caught with his, Quarless handled his problems with a gun, and now Jarrett Bush (technically a FA) was banned for using PEDs which means that he was using them as a Packers player. While these are all relatively minor offenses, they are of somewhat a concern. I think that the Green Bay front office has done a good job of employing good players who are also generally good people. The coaching staff seems to be saying the right things to players and keeping them in line. However, you can't be with all of the players all of the time.

    I'm not starting this thread to suggest that we do anything different, yet, but it's worth noting the uptick.

    Since it hasn't really been discussed anywhere that I saw, I'll just say that I'm surprised but not shocked about Bush being suspended. I didn't think that he was the type of player to do it, but he must have been doing it just to continually hang on to his roster spot. From a player perspective, if he was able to coax a couple extra seasons and a couple extra million dollars out of it, then I would say that it was probably worth it.
     
  2. Carl

    Carl Cheesehead

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    I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that Bush has been using them for years. He very well good have just started in hopes of finding a new job this offseason.
     
  3. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    When I saw the headline, I figured it was for pot

    He used to love t smoke during the season
     
  4. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    If the reports are accurate, it's not marijuana.

    Pot falls under the recreational drug policy, not the performance enhancing drug (PED) policy.

    Adderall seems to be popular; it's a game day "focus" drug that clears the system in 2 or 3 days. It seems guys roll the dice with it. Bush might have gotten caught in an unfortunately timed random test.

    Given the fact he was struggling with a groin injury last season and into the off season, it could have been a steroid or HGH to speed recovery. It's not likely to be HGH; the testing regime is so weak nobody's been caught yet.

    Since Bush is not officially retired, he would be subject to the year-round PED testing program despite the fact he's not under contract. It could have been a recent steroid positive; if this were an office pool I'd go with that, but that's just a wild guess.
     
  5. Mondio

    Mondio Cheesehead

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    I admittedly don't follow their drug policy too closely, but I thought I heard that HGH testing for now, was only to obtain baselines on players, and that they wouldn't be subject to suspensions or anything at this point?
     
  6. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...ctiveness-questioned-debated-facade/22715375/

    "Testing started in October, with about 40 per week at random during the regular season and five per team in the playoffs, plus other players tested for reasonable cause, said Adolpho Birch, the NFL's senior vice president for labor policy. If caught, players would be subject to a minimum four-game suspension."

    According the anti-doping expert cited in that article, a guy would have to shoot up within a couple hours of the test to get caught.
     
  7. sschind

    sschind Cheesehead

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    These guys are professional athletes and across the board I'm guessing that issues like this will even out between teams over the years. Like you said these issues may be considered relatively minor so while the Packers have gone a while without to many issues I think it was bound to catch up to them. I don't think it is a sign of impending disaster or that the Packers management is losing control or anything like that. I also think it just kind of goes to show you that the Packers may not be all that special when it comes to players with some character issues. TT does seem to screen players pretty well and I'd be surprised if a TT player went Aaron Hernandez for example but minor infractions are going to happen for all teams.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    would you be ok with a player smoking weed and hanging out at a bar till close 3 days before a huge playoff game?
     
  9. El Guapo

    El Guapo Cheesehead

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    It worked for Max McGee and Paul Hornung.

    I'm okay with it as long as they play their best on game day. I still know amateur athletes that play under the influence of alcohol and other. Some of them play better that way. More power to them.

    I read an article recently (can't find the link anymore) stating that the author felt the NFL would be an early adopter of legalizing marijuana once it became legal at the federal level. He said that many players aren't enthusiastic about the side effects of all the pain pills prescribed by teams, and would much rather mitigate pain through a much less harmful drug such as marijuana. It was an interesting read.
     
  10. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    What makes you ask?
     
  11. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    The landscape may change entirely in the next few years without federal legalization.

    Pot is loaded with chemicals (some 400). The clear affects of each are poorly understood.

    On theory, currently being investigated in at least one clinical trial, is that the THC in marijuana, the active ingredient that gets you high, has little medical value. It is theorized that one or a few of the other chemicals are what provide medical benefits, such as pain relief and anti- inflammatory properties. Many users of medical marijuana don't like the affects of the high; they want just the medical benefits. Medical marijuana purveyors are acting on preliminary understandings of the chemicals by breeding low THC strains.

    The logical progression would be: find the beneficial active ingredients in the right mix for specific medical conditions and extract them into ingestible form (pill or liquid), subject to clinical trials. This brings us to the point of branded drugs, under the stringent (and expensive) FDA protocols, provided by pharmaceutical companies.

    At that point, there is no excuse to smoke marijuana except to get high.

    In the meantime, federal legalization has a Catch-22. States and their doctors are currently in violation of FDA standards. They are prescribing and selling things with claimed medical benefits that have not gone through the rigorous testing and approval process required of any substance purported to have medical benefits. Right now the feds just look the other way. However, if the federal government said "marijuana is legal", it would be in direct contraction of bedrock FDA principles. Looking the other way at that point would be so glaringly contradictory as to make it unviable. They could do it, but it looks like they'd have to shut down the medical marijuana business until the proper testing could be done, thereby making it a legal recreational drug only.

    In the end, I'd put my money on Big Pharma owning this business, with the recreational aspects subject to how far the culture shifts over time without the sheen of medical legitimacy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2015
  12. Pokerbrat2000

    Pokerbrat2000 Opinions are like A-holes, we all have one.

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    I don't think much has changed as far as usage of banned substances in any sport through the years. However, more substances have been banned, testing has stepped up and athletes are no longer given a wrist slap under the table by local authorities or teams. As a result of all this, we are seeing more getting caught. The power and speed of the internet helps to publicize it as well.

    It still amazes me how much some of these guys make in salaries and how much is at risk and they just can't resist the temptation. Kind of shows you the power of drugs and maybe a bit about the mentality of certain individuals.

    Same things can be said about non-drug violations in regards to them no longer being swept under the table.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2015
  13. sschind

    sschind Cheesehead

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    Wouldn't that depend on why they legalized it? Some states that have not legalized its recreational use have legalized medical marijuana but states like Colorado and Alaska didn't legalize it simply for medical use. They legalized it because they were convinced that keeping it illegal was stupid. The feds could simply do the same thing. It doesn't have to involve the FDA or medical use at all.
     
  14. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Would you be?
     
  15. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Would you be OK with a player drinking and hanging out at a bar until 3:00 AM three days before a playoff game?
     
  16. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    LOL----I have huge issues-- even more so when hi play affected the out come of the game..

    But why are you avoiding it?

    If you knew a Packer player was at a bar till close smoking weed and drinking on a Thur with a playoff game on Saturday, would that be an issue?

    Or you think it is okay?
     
  17. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    You guys have a little game of dodge and weave going on here, do ya? ;) Well? Do ya? :sneaky: Answer me damn it! :)

    Tell ya frankly, I don't have an issue with legalizing pot - may as well generate some revenue ... maybe fund some schools for people that aren't burned out. (Yeah, I quit that stuff multiple decades ago).

    Whether it is legalized or not, I think the NFL should be able to regulate, test and suspend -- as an EMPLOYER -- and every last one of these guys are employed by the NFL. Should these children be allowed to party until 3 a.m. getting stoned and blitzed willy-nilly?? ... no ... however, it would be up to the team to enforce on behalf of the NFL...afterall, the team IS the NFL. Legal activity or not ... for example, alcohol is legal however, if I came to work 3/4 sh*t-faced from the night and morning before, my employer could discipline me. Why not the NFL? THEY have millions at stake with these clowns.

    Pro athletes, by accepting the "consideration" stipulated in their contracts should be able to be 'regulated' or terminated. Now, enforcement is another issue.

    As for Bush ... yeah ... that guy needed something to help him if he was to hang around...unfortunately, we all get older.
     
  18. buggybill2003

    buggybill2003 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I always had my suspicions about you ;)
     
  19. weeds

    weeds Cheesehead

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    ... and you'll not that I spelled "legalizing" correctly. ;)
     
  20. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    Why are you avoiding stating your intent with that question? Do you believe I'm defending pot use or Jarrett Bush? That should not have been evident because I did nothing of the sort.

    But never mind. I'll go first. I'll tell you exactly what I think.

    First of all, Bush was busted for PEDs, not marijuana. Do you think it's OK for a professional athlete to use such substances? I categorically do not. I agree with the NFL policies in the respect that performance enhancing drugs are subject to a stricter testing regime and and stiffer penalties. PED usage is cheating.

    On to pot and alcohol....

    It's been over thirty-five years since I closed a bar. However, in my misspent youth I closed my fair share. In fact, I could shoot a credible game of straight pool both high and drunk at "Tony's 4 O'clock" in East Peoria on a Saturday night. A little coke could sharpen the focus I might add. So let's make it 4:00 AM instead of 3:00 AM.

    So the first question is, "should anybody be closing a bar high and/or drunk any time?" From my personal experience I'd say it's a waste of time, money and a perfectly good next day.

    From my experience, no matter how sh*t faced I might have ever been, by 2 days following I was perfectly fine. I would expect Bush would say the same thing, though you'd have to ask him. And if it was a just a couple of drinks and maybe a shared joint, he could have been fit as fiddle by an afternoon practice.

    So, on the face of it, closing a bar 3 days before a playoff game doesn't concern me in particular without more details. It's not like the '85 Pats that got blown out by the Bears...rumors had it 8 of 9 of those guys were coked up the night before the Super Bowl.

    Pot vs. alcohol? In moderation, I fail to see a difference. You can exercise bad judgement or crash a car either way. Alcoholism has a long history of violence and home breaking attached to it. Chronic stoners might be less violent, but they might be less motivated to bring home a decent paycheck.

    In short, all things in moderation, I say, otherwise choose your poison.

    I'll ask you a question. What do you think of T.J. Lang, by his own admission, crawling bars to the wee hours and showing up to practice hung over? It's a good thing the Packers didn't cut him before that new wife of his settled him down. She must be one heck of a gal.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2015
  21. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    I forgot to cover this point.

    You did not mention which game. If Bush played like crap, I'd judge it was more a function of Bush not being a very good football player. C'mon...who has a 3 day hangover...from anything? Nobody.
     
  22. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Bush and a fellow def player spent the Thursday night before the Giants playoff game loss getting stoned, drunk and trying to pick up women at a GB bar..

    During the season on a Monday or Tuesday, or Wed, still isnt right but I might be okay

    But on a Thursday before a Saturday playoff game, and then get your *** handed to you? Un- excusable..Time should have been spent studying more


    TJ----21 money and a pro football player..Stupid...He wasnt a starter from what I recall...He was hurt and hardly played..Still no excuse, he should have taken it more seriously.

    But he focused on his play turned around and now is really good..So he learned...I dont think Bush ever did
     
  23. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That's 2 days before the game, not 3 days.

    Regardless, Thursday night before a Saturday game, for that game or any other? I conclude what I always concluded...he's just not a very good a football player.

    Now, if you told me a player smokes dope or gets drunk three or four days a week, week in and week out, then we'd have something to talk about.
     
  24. Poppa San

    Poppa San SB I trophy First of four Staff Member Moderator

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    I never heard definitively. Was it for PED or for a masking substance; some other substanse that can hide the presence of the PEDs?
     
  25. HardRightEdge

    HardRightEdge Cheesehead

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    That strikes me as a difference without a distinction.
     

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