1. Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!

    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers. You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!
    Dismiss Notice

Two plays that effected the outcome of the game.

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by vike4life, Nov 30, 2007.

  1. vike4life

    vike4life Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Messages:
    600
    Ratings:
    +0
    The first play was a non-call. The Packers first series. Favre throws deep. The Cowboy defender does not turn his head. He face guards. Driver just misses a big catch. I would dare to say that the play is called pass interference more often than not. If the Packers get that call and score early we may be talking about an entirely different outcome right now.

    The pass intereference they called against the Packers in the 4th quarter was incidental contact. That was a terrible call and allowed the Cowboys to go back up by 10.
     
  2. Zombieslayer

    Zombieslayer Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,338
    Ratings:
    +0
    Thanks Vike. I missed the first quarter waiting for my wife to get off work, so didn't see that.

    Agreed on the 2nd one. I did see that, and was fuming. :twisted:
     
  3. NDPackerFan

    NDPackerFan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    May 20, 2005
    Messages:
    2,253
    Ratings:
    +4
    I would add that Al Harris stripped T.O. of the football early in the first quarter and the refs called it dead b/c of forward progress...total b.s. call in my opinion.
     
  4. vike4life

    vike4life Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2007
    Messages:
    600
    Ratings:
    +0
    That was another terrible call.
     
  5. TOPackerFan

    TOPackerFan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2004
    Messages:
    2,084
    Ratings:
    +0
    If you watch the replay of this one Newman had Driver's inside arm hooked too, he just did a better job of covering it up than anyone on our side did.

    I'm not one to blame a loss on officiating, but it certainly didn't help us last night.
     
  6. yooperfan

    yooperfan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2004
    Messages:
    1,900
    Ratings:
    +0
    I agree on the 2nd one, but I think on the game changing performance was Harris stripping the ball and not getting the call.
     
  7. HatestheEagles084

    HatestheEagles084 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2005
    Messages:
    1,423
    Ratings:
    +1
    agree completely, this team had to overcome injuries, a good Cowboys team, Texas Stadium...throw two game-changing plays on top of it and we just couldnt do it

    the pass interference call in the 4th had me PISSED. anyone remember last week vs. Detroit, the penalty by Bigby (go figure) where him and I think shaun mcdonald bumped shoulders both going for the ball. I hate pass interference...last week and this week were exhibits A and B of why pass interference should be a 10 or 15 yard penalty instead of a spot foul--Dallas got half of a scoring drive on one questionable call and that did us in. Detroit was able to score its' last TD last week thanks to the mentioned call making it an 8 point game

    Being a guy who also watches hockey, this frustrates me...what hockey officials do, and what sean salisbury even suggested (and you won't hear me agree with him too much)--LET THE PLAYERS DECIDE THE GAME...two calls, two weeks in a row which you can argue effected the outcome of the game

    as for Harris' pick on Owens, the first time, yes it was a pick, but I knew we weren't going to get it, simply based on the call on the field, that wouldn't get overturned even if it had gone the other way on the field, the 'forward progress' rule is too vague.
     
  8. spardo62

    spardo62 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    559
    Ratings:
    +0
    We played poorly and deserved to lose- however, the officiating continues to mystify.

    I have seen several games over the past few weeks where the DB made no attempt to look for the ball, merely putting his hands up while running with his back to the QB - with no call. Saw one again last night.

    The other calls I guess could have gone either way, but the thing that bothered my is that in both cases the ref with the better view saw it one way and then was overturned by a ref behind the play. I am all for getting the call right through discussion, but to go with someone who it would appear did not have a clear view the the play just seems wrong.
     
  9. castlebravo

    castlebravo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +0
    The calls didn't all go against the Packers.

    One non-call...when the Packer player ran into the planting leg of the Cowboy punter...very clearly running into the kicker. Don't worry though, they haven't been calling those all year.

    The other one...the offsides on Ware when Favre fumbled the ball...he actually wasn't offsides. He timed the snap perfectly. Packers went on to score a touchdown on that drive. Not as bad as the strip, but I'm still mystified by you some of you guys insisting that no way, no how it was pass interference on Austin Miles. If it had been reversed pretty sure you guys would be screaming interference.

    The officiating was plain bad. There were lots of holding non-calls, both in favor of Dallas and in favor of Green Bay. The problem with bad officiating is it always leads to stuff like "the refs stole the game from us".
     
  10. FromIrving

    FromIrving Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2007
    Messages:
    43
    Ratings:
    +0
    Face guarding is legal as long as the defender doesn't grab the WR. The same thing happen to TO twice in the game against Buffalo.

    The PI call in the 4th was BS though.

    On the play where Harris stripped the ball from TO ... TO caught the ball and the ref ruled his forward progress was stopped making the play dead. Even if you question who caught the ball ... worst case scenario it was a tie (both players caught the ball) and the tie ALWAYS goes to the offensive player.
     
  11. Aytumious

    Aytumious Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2006
    Messages:
    182
    Ratings:
    +0
    That sideline play was one of the most baffling I'd ever seen. His momentum hadn't stopped. He was trying to secure the ball as he went out of bounds. I've never seen a guys forward momentum called dead on a play like that and I bet it will be years (decades?) before I see it again. The only time that is ever called is when there is a huge pileup and guys are trying to rip the ball away from the runner.

    W...T....F
     
  12. spardo62

    spardo62 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2006
    Messages:
    559
    Ratings:
    +0
    I hope I have not given the impression that I am blaming the loss on the refs - Dallas whooped our butts on the OL and DL and we deserved to lose, and yes the officiating had some bad calls both ways. They tend to even out - if the teams are executing at the same level or at least be nullified by a superior team overcoming a few roadblocks. The problem I have with both the strip and the interference is they were called by a ref behind the play, while the ref in front of the play with a better view saw something different and was overruled.
     
  13. Obi1

    Obi1 Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,110
    Ratings:
    +0
    SO, we're all in agreement that the Refs were paid off.

    End of story. Someone call the NFL.

    For me, I only saw the 2nd half and if these idiots referee the Packers in the Playoffs, we're toast.
     
  14. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Ratings:
    +38
    Ah, sorry there bro but face guarding IS NOT legal in the NFL whether you grab anybody or not. You CANNOT face the player and not turn and make a play on the ball. Face guarding is a penalty in this league. Alway has been.
    If your faced on the receiver with your hands up and don't turn and make a play. It's a flag. PERIOD. Your watching too much college. It's legal there.
     
  15. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Ratings:
    +38
    The last call should never have been made. The late flag came from the guy that had the worst angle to see what happened. That was a tit for tat hand checking and then their feet got mixed up. I saw your guys on Jennings and Driver with the hands on some long balls with nothing called. The only difference was there was no trip which SHOULD NOT bring a flag in the first place.
    You don't make that nit picky call at that time of a game when it creates such a huge impact on the outcome.
    As far as the offsides that's bullshit. He was offsides and it was a freaking five yard penalty vs a forty five yarder at the five yard line. We went on to score because we went on to score not because the strips put the ball on the five yard line. You had WAY more opportunity to stop that drive than we did. You trying to say that somehow evens out bad calls?

    How long are your arms cause that's a serious reach right there?

    Make no mistake the subject matter here is bad calls and how they affected the play on the field. We LOST the game. Dallas played better. But some of the calls stunk and there's no "evening" that out regardless of how you rationalize it.
     
  16. castlebravo

    castlebravo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hand checking doesn't include grabbing the guy's shoulder pads with both hands and turning his body.

    If you are going to do this and then flail your leg and trip the receiver, it would help the plausible deniability a little bit if you were also looking at the ball rather than the receiver you were taking out.

    If the defender isn't playing the ball, then tripping or tangling IS pass interference. He wasn't looking at the ball and he had his hands on the receiver, not up to catch the ball...in short, he was playing the receiver, he initiated contact with his hands and feet that led to both of them falling. The guy that threw the flag may have been in the worst position, but he made the right call.

    Sorry, yes you do. When a defender is beat deep on a sure touchdown and takes down the receiver, what, just let them play?

    I didn't say it evened out the bad calls...I said there were bad calls on both ends...ie, the officiating was simply bad. Some of you think because a couple more calls went the Cowboys way that it was some sort of anti-Green Bay conspiracy other than simply an inept officiating crew.

    I'm not...the only thing I'm arguing is that the pass interference call wasn't nearly as questionable as you seem to think it was, and if the same thing had happened to the Packers receivers when they were streaking for a touchdown, you'd be screaming.
     
  17. tkpckfan

    tkpckfan Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Messages:
    326
    Ratings:
    +0
    should of been up 7-0 first drive newman had ahold of drivers right arm and was face guarding. then we should of had the ball back with a turnover forced by harris which was a great play. would of had ball at mid field. 7-0 lead maybe even 10-0 if we got a couple first downs after that or even 14-0. rather than 3-3.
     
  18. staticx

    staticx Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    11
    Ratings:
    +0
    So would packer fans complain about the calls if they roles were reversed and the cowboys were the ones being called on those fouls?
     
  19. staticx

    staticx Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    11
    Ratings:
    +0
    Dallas should have had 3 more touchdowns.
    1 with Fasano and the hitting the ground and it forces the ball to pop out so incomplete pass in the endzone...that 7
    1 with T.O. playing hot potato with a sure touchdown and losing it resulting in a packer interception..thats 7
    And the Cowboys just running Marion all the way down to the 5 to run out the clock. The way the boys were passing at will against the packers they "could" have run up the score and completed another touchdown, but just run it instead and forced the last field goal. So that could have been 7 more

    What ifs ifs ifs ifs goes both ways
     
  20. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Ratings:
    +38
     
  21. castlebravo

    castlebravo Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2007
    Messages:
    10
    Ratings:
    +0
    The announcers were Bryant Gumble and Chris Collinsworth. The two biggest douche bags (along with Peter King) in the whole wide world of sports coverage of the NFL. Bryant Gumble is the worst play-by-play announcer there is. You're on pretty shaky ground if you're depending on his analysis for your decision.

    Doctor Z with CNNSI thinks it was pass interference, and he's not even close to a Cowboys homer:

    "The controversial holdover from this contest, the one that will be discussed on the talk shows, involved two guys pretty far down on their respective depth charts, Green Bay's Tramon Williams, anywhere from third to fifth cornerback depending on the rotation, and Miles Austin, the No. 4 wideout for the Cowboys. With Dallas leading 27-24 midway through the fourth period, Williams was flagged for a 42-yard interference penalty, from the Packers' 47 to the five, setting up the TD that made it a 10-point game.

    Contact had been made, Austin went down, and I've seen inadvertent bumping called in a situation such as that, you know, "they got their legs tangled," which resulted in no flag. Not this time. Williams, in a trail position, nipped one of Austin's legs with his own, from behind. It wasn't a tangle, it was a trip, and although I was in sympathy with Green Bay's effort to get back in the contest, I felt it was the right call."
     
  22. rkoRKOrko

    rkoRKOrko Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Messages:
    37
    Ratings:
    +0
    Basically the two key plays were the Al Harris/TO interception/fumble/whatever you want to call it, and the pass interference call in the 4th quarter.

    However, other key factors were that when Favre was in the game, the Packers completely changed the game plan from what they have used all year. Instead of using their 5 wide set effectively and passing short, they just called for Favre to bomb it downfield into double coverage. When Rodgers came into the game, they reverted back to what was working, and ended up putting some points on the board. To have Rodgers come in and play that way only makes me think of what Favre could have done if they had just used that strategy in the beginning.

    I'm not too worried if the Packers end up playing in the NFC championship in Dallas. With all the injuries and questionable calls in this game, to only lose by 10 isn't such a bad thing. I think McCarthy will have them more prepared if they do meet again.
     
  23. BayouCowboy

    BayouCowboy Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2007
    Messages:
    35
    Ratings:
    +0
    There is no faceguarding anymore.
     
  24. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Ratings:
    +38
    Whatever.

    I am sure Williams had the where withall to be running down the field as fast as he could trying like hell to catch this guy and without looking down or showing any intent happened to trip the guy.

    It's amazing to me because I have seen this happen about a hundred times in other games and always when the DB is trailing the receiver and why is that just a tangle but this guy see's him "nip the leg" of the reciever and that's a trip.

    okydokey then.
     
  25. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,922
    Ratings:
    +38
    And I say that is totally and 100% wrong.

    Why then in every game you see the fade in the endzone where the DB's back is to the ball playing the receiver and he's called EVERY SINGLE TIME.

    You are telling me a DB in the NFL can have his back to the QB with his hands in the air and not have a clue where the ball is and defend the receiver without getting a flag?

    If the DB doesn't get his head turned back towards the ball he IS going to get the flag otherwise the TECHNIQUE would BE basically what is faceguarding every time. It's way more easier to defend the receiver than both the receiver AND the ball.

    If this is the case why aren't they doing it? It would be MANDATORY in my camp and in every NFL camp in the league. It makes the DB's job five times easier.

    It would defy logic to give the receiver all the benefits the rules now call for including no contact after five yards and then let the defenders shadow the receivers without responsibility for defending the ball. I mean none.
     

Share This Page