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TT's Joe Johnson

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by net, Aug 21, 2007.

  1. net

    net Cheesehead

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    This has many good tidbits...like Harris and Woodson lobbying for change..etc. but I had to smirk that genius Ted also got burned in free agency it appears...
    -------------------------

    By BOB McGINN
    bmcginn@journalsentinel.com
    Posted: Aug. 20, 2007
    Green Bay - The Green Bay Packers didn't just hand Marquand Manuel's position to Atari Bigby. But clearly the strong safety job now is Bigby's to lose.

    In a dramatic move Monday to shore up his weakest position on defense, coach Mike McCarthy announced that Bigby would start Thursday night against Jacksonville at Lambeau Field. As long as Bigby doesn't fall apart, it's almost a foregone conclusion that the Packers will enter the regular season with him opposite free safety Nick Collins.

    "He's an ascending young player; I think we all agree with that," McCarthy said. "He has impact-play ability, which he showed against Seattle. It's something to get excited about."

    Cornerback Jarrett Bush also was moved ahead of Patrick Dendy as the nickel back in the 4-2-5 defense. Dendy has held that job since Week 5 last season but Bush is a faster and seemingly more dynamic player.

    Meanwhile, the Packers informed safety Marviel Underwood late Monday that he would be released today. A fourth-round draft choice in 2005, Underwood wasn't all the way back from reconstructive knee surgery last August.

    McCarthy attempted to couch the significance of Bigby's insertion, saying the position hadn't been settled. But Bigby took every snap alongside Collins with the No. 1 defense Monday night, a far different situation from last week when he took only a few with the starters.

    Manuel, who signed a five-year, $10 million deal in March 2006 to leave Seattle as an unrestricted free agent, worked with rookie Aaron Rouse on the No. 2 defense. The No. 3 pairing was Tyrone Culver and Charlie Peprah.

    The Packers are expected to keep four safeties. Rouse, a third-round pick, is expected to be one of the backups, and Manuel easily could lose his roster spot to either Culver or Peprah.

    Bigby, 5 feet 10½ inches and 211 pounds, came out of Central Florida as a free agent in 2005. After being cut by the Miami Dolphins and New York Jets, he joined the Packers in November of that year. In two seasons, he has played six snaps from scrimmage and 94 snaps on special teams.

    "I think he clearly has the physical skills," McCarthy said. "I've never questioned that. We now want to see if he can do it from the beginning of the game."

    A source close to the situation said cornerbacks Al Harris and Charles Woodson had been lobbying the coaches for Bigby to replace Manuel, a player whom they apparently no longer trusted.

    In the nickel defense, Bush replaced Dendy at left cornerback. Woodson plays the slot and Harris remains on the right side.

    The dependable Dendy, however, probably isn't out of the picture. Will Blackmon also has a chance for the job.

    "For as good as (Bush) played on defense I thought he played better on special teams," McCarthy said. "He's a very physical football player. He's only going to get better."

    Bush, claimed on waivers Sept. 3 from Carolina, played 15 snaps from scrimmage and 276 on special teams in '06.

    The release of Underwood wasn't a surprise. He played poorly in Pittsburgh and then missed another open-field tackle against Seattle.

    "I don't think he's all the way back to where he was last year," McCarthy said. "A great individual."

    Underwood, who had a four-year, $1.815 million deal, will count $107,500 in "dead" money against the salary cap next year.

    Injury list: Defensive end Mike Montgomery, the best of the four players who suffered medial collateral knee ligament damage Saturday, also was the most seriously hurt.

    Montgomery will undergo arthroscopic knee surgery this week. The injury was to his right knee, the same knee that he had problems with in high school.

    "It is an MCL injury," McCarthy said. "There's more things they want to look at."

    Kick returner Shaun Bodiford's season and perhaps his career might have ended on the opening kickoff. Bodiford said he would miss four to six weeks with a sprained MCL. It's unlikely that the Packers would retain him on the 53-man roster. They also could reach an injury settlement and release him.

    "Hopefully, this is going to make for a great story . . . hopefully with the Green Bay Packers or whoever," Bodiford said. "Hopefully, I can overcome it like I overcame a lot of other things in my life."

    Bodiford, who admitted dealing drugs as a teenager growing up in the streets of Seattle, was injured when safety C.J. Wallace hit him on the knee.
    "He should have been blocked and he didn't get blocked," Bodiford said. "He came clean off the edge of the wedge. It's OK, it happens. I trust my teammates."

    Bodiford suffered almost the same injury to his left knee last August returning a kickoff for the Detroit Lions. The Lions kept Bodiford on their 53-man roster and he made it back by Week 4.

    After being claimed by the Packers, the fearless, hard-charging Bodiford lasted three games before suffering a broken leg returning the opening kickoff in Minnesota.

    Bodiford had been competing with Blackmon for the return job.

    "I think he's just a great returner in general," Bodiford said, referring to Blackmon. "He has incredible vision and ability to break tackles. I think we both have the same attributes. But I don't think I would have got caught on that (83-yard) kickoff return."
    Running back P.J. Pope still isn't anywhere close to returning after undergoing arthroscopic knee surgery Aug. 6 in which his meniscus cartilage was repaired.

    "We haven't really set a timetable," Pope said. "We just want to make sure I'm good when it's time to go. We're not trying to rush it."

    If the Packers reach an injury settlement with Pope, there's a chance he might be re-signed by Chicago. The Packers signed Pope off Chicago's practice squad Oct. 31, and the Bears hated to lose him.

    Running back DeShawn Wynn tested his injured thigh Monday afternoon in hopes of returning today. He hasn't practiced since Aug. 7.

    "I'm missing out," Wynn said. "They've been trying to be real patient with me so these couple weeks don't turn into two, three months."

    Fullback Ryan Powdrell said he would miss three to six weeks with a sprained MCL in his left knee. He was injured on his first play from scrimmage Saturday night when players rolled up on the back of his legs.

    The Packers also lost tackle Orrin Thompson to a minor MCL injury.

    Both Bodiford and Powdrell said their injuries had nothing to do with the new DD GrassMaster synthetic surface at Lambeau Field.
    "I think it's just luck of the draw," general manager Ted Thompson said. "We played on the exact same field in Pittsburgh and had nothing, and I don't think the Seahawks had any injuries here."
     
  2. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    Not Joe Johnson, Manuel will not hurt us with his salary lol
     
  3. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    pretty sure most people knew that Thompson made a bad choice in signing Manuel before this article came out. You can't win them all. Manuel sucks, but Woodson and Pickett don't. you win some, you lose some.
     
  4. tromadz

    tromadz Cheesehead

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    This.

    Joe Johnson was a bad pick for about 7 reasons.

    Manuel was bad for one. He isn't very good. He isn't a malcontent. He isn't a salary dog. etc.

    But yeah...TT's Joe Johnson. Sure.
     
  5. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    Joe Johnson sucked

    Manuel sucked, but he sucked at a much cheaper price... without the attitude.....and without the huge expectations we had when Johnson was signed.

    Joe Johnson Return: 11 games, 25 tackles, 2 sacks
    Manuel Return: 16 games, 81 tackles, 3 pass deflections, 1 INT, 1 TD.
     
  6. Bruce

    Bruce Cheesehead

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    In fairness Joe Johnson failed because of injury, Marquand Manuel failed because of lack of talent.

    I told you guys when the rumors of TT's interest in Manuel began that the man was a career backup with no cover skills.

    TT missed on this one. In fairness he has hit on quite a few too -- including Bigby and Bush.
     
  7. Packnic

    Packnic Cheesehead

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    not at all defending Manuel. he sucks, i agree.. but he was also coming off an injury. just throwing it out there
     
  8. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    So was Javon Walker and he played pretty well for the Broncos.
     
  9. Pack93z

    Pack93z You retired too? .... Not me. I'm in my prime

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    Isn't that another reason not to sign him to a multi year deal? Granted 10 million over 5 years isn't a killer deal, but still, he was an average player comming off an injury. To me... that is a Red Flag.

    Just throwing out another viewpoint. Smokin Joe was a above average DE in terms of performance in NO before he came here... problem was that entire front line probably made him look better than he was. Glover, Johnson, and the DE that went to Philly last year. Along with Grady Jackson.

    Simply put... Sherman overpaid on the numbers he produced rather than skill.
     
  10. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    It was a bad signing. I think a better comparison to TT's Joe Johnson would've been Charles Woodson if he had falter. Other than that it's hard to see the simularites. One was a big name free agent signing at the time and the other was a more low key signing. Neither of them worked obviously.
     
  11. Zero2Cool

    Zero2Cool I own a website

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    crap, the title was not defining enough and i went an posted the same article in another thread ... d'oh
     
  12. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    That is true.

    Johnson had a couple of excellent seasons under his belt when he was signed by Sherman. It wasn't as if it was totally stupid to sign him, Johnson had the skills to be a dominant player, his injuries ruined him.

    Manuel didn't really have the production to merit such a contract, and as Bruce said he never had the skills to be a dominate player.

    Both failed for different reasons, and like Porky said Woodson (if he had been a bust) would've been TT's Joe Johnson, more-so than Manuel anyways.
     
  13. Lare

    Lare Cheesehead

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    Interestingly enough, one of the best comments on talent evaluation I ever saw was from Ted Thompson himself. In one interview he stated something to the effect that "Just like a hitter in baseball, if a GM is successful in personnel decisions around .333 of the time, he's doing pretty good".

    Without spending the time to go back and see what TT's percentage of success player-wise has been overall, I'm guessing his success at signing veteran FAs is way below .333 when all the Littles, Boerigters, Walkers, ODwyers and Manuels are factored in. But in all fairness, success in FA really doesn't make much difference in the long run. It's all about winning games on the football field.

    We'll see if TT's Packers can be as successful in spite of all his mistakes as Mike Sherman's Packers were in spite of his mistakes.
     

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