Troubling signs from Woodson

Zero2Cool

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Posted: Sept. 30, 2006
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Bob McGinn
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Green Bay - For now, at least, the megabucks signing of Charles Woodson hasn't come back to haunt the Green Bay Packers.

But as the weeks and months, perhaps even seasons, of the Woodson chapter begin to unfold, the hunch is that general manager Ted Thompson ultimately will wish that he had spent his money on somebody else.

Woodson is making a king's ransom. The seven-year, $39.034 million deal that he and agent Carl Poston extracted from Thompson three days before the draft provides him with $9.9 million guaranteed this season. He counts $6.709 million against the Packers' salary cap, second only to Brett Favre at $12.6 million.

For that, the Packers hoped that Woodson would be a proverbial shut-down cornerback, a possible contributor on offense and special teams, and a positive presence in the locker room.

What they've gotten so far is a middle-of-the-road starting cornerback by National Football League standards, an adequate punt returner and someone who does his job but isn't about to make an emotional or tutorial commitment to the organization or his teammates.
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Based on interviews last week with a dozen people from Woodson's past and across the NFL, the picture that emerges is Woodson as a football mercenary. The first defensive player to win the Heisman Trophy will show up and punch a clock, practice and play on Sunday. Just don't expect him to lead, take part in any non-mandatory off-season activities or expend much energy worrying about the state of the team.

"Such a complex guy," said a coach who has worked with Woodson in the past. "He's going to be Charles. He can be charming, he can be fun, he can be funny. At the same time, he can be isolated, he can be sullen, he can be a pain."

Woodson is in the twilight of his nine-year career. Although he suffered a pair of broken legs in the last four years as well as other injuries, his speed isn't bad. His short-area quickness, at least based on his inability to cover Detroit's Mike Furrey out of the slot last week, is highly questionable.

With his 30th birthday later this week, Woodson's future isn't bright. The Packers certainly didn't shell out $8.36 million in bonus money this year for one year of starting service. But after three games the jury's out. If his performance slips over the next 13 weeks, the Packers will have a decision to make regarding his future.

Some NFL officials say Woodson's future should be at safety. He has the size, and as a hard-hitting cornerback might be physical enough to handle the rough stuff inside.

But some players who have made a similar move - Ronnie Lott and Rod Woodson come to mind - were great leaders and keen students of the game. That isn't Woodson. The idea of him directing a secondary might sound good but in reality it might not work.

Signing Woodson was completely out of character for Thompson. His blueprint for rebuilding is acquiring additional draft choices, then developing them. He might have dipped his toe a time or two into unrestricted free agency but had no interest in taking the big-money plunge.

Thompson, however, probably was feeling some heat from those who saw the Packers with a load of cap room and wondered why he was managing the loot as if it were his own.

Thompson did add Ryan Pickett and Marquand Manuel in mid-March, but only after electing not to enter the big-money battles for linebacker Will Witherspoon and center-guard LeCharles Bentley in the first two days of the signing period. Both would have filled major needs.

Witherspoon, who went from Carolina to St. Louis for a $9 million signing bonus, has been a terrific player and leader thus far for the Rams. Bentley, who moved from New Orleans to Cleveland for $11.25 million in bonuses, blew out his knee in the first practice.

On March 20, the Packers watched Minnesota take advantage of the miscalculation made by Seattle in tagging guard Steve Hutchinson as a transition player rather than a franchise player. If you're going to dole out $16 million in bonus money for a guard, as the Vikings did, it needs to be the perfect player.

Hutchinson has been exceptional for the Vikings just as he would have been exceptional in Green Bay. Only his value here would have been more pronounced because of the two games against Vikings defensive tackles Kevin Williams and Pat Williams.

But Thompson wouldn't pay Mike Wahle even half that much a year earlier. If Hutchinson was in Green Bay, the Packers would have a running game and the entire offense would have a different feel.

On April 22, Thompson caught a break when linebacker LaVar Arrington cast his lot with the Giants, not the Packers. Arrington has been a good leader, but his knees look shot, he seems lost in coverage and he's missing tackles. Four days later, Thompson shuffled the money from one Poston client and gave it to another, Woodson, dismissing the possibility of signing the other available veteran cornerback, Ty Law.

Woodson showed up for the mandatory minicamp but then let the Packers know who was in charge by leaving town immediately and not returning until the start of training camp. He reported in shape, practiced and made just enough plays to lull the Packers into thinking they might have struck it rich.

That all changed on the Monday night in Cincinnati. Not only was Woodson embarrassed by T.J. Houshmandzadeh, he brought shame to himself by quitting on two plays after being beaten.

Two scouts said it looked like Woodson wasn't even trying that night. As alarming as his refusal to finish plays was, it was only an exhibition game. But then almost the same thing happened in the fourth quarter at Ford Field, when Furrey burned Woodson by 5 yards with a stutter step on a shallow crossing route.

Woodson actually broke stride as Furrey approached the sideline, in effect letting teammates get him down. Fortunately for the Packers, a late lunge by Brady Poppinga got Furrey out of bounds or the 25-yard gain might have been a lot more.

Woodson's actions fly in the face of what all NFL coaches hold near and dear. One scout said Woodson has never been much in catch-up and chalked it up to almost being in a fog. Others who have seen the plays in question say they go right to what makes Woodson an enigma and the pernicious effect money can have on some aging players.

By year's end, Woodson will have been paid about $50 million for playing football.

"You've got to give him time," a personnel director for a recent Packers' opponent said. "But he doesn't play with a motor. He kind of just drifts. Does he like football?"

It's hard to say. Woodson had some fine years early at Oakland. Jon Gruden challenged him, and he responded. He was never as good as Mike Haynes, but with his phenomenal talent and youthful exuberance few of Woodson's contemporaries played the position better.

But later, under coaches Bill Callahan and Norv Turner, Woodson almost seemed to be bored on the field. The Raiders hit the skids. Injuries befell him.

He had some off-field problems as well. Sources say Woodson was a "semi-malcontent" who broke curfew more than once for alcohol-related violations.

"He's the type of guy who was so gifted that he never really kept in shape and worked hard," another personnel director said. "He's just not a go-getter. He's got all the typical stuff you don't really want to deal with unless you're a good team and he has no choice but to conform. Like Baltimore."

The staff in Green Bay also has been finding out how stubborn Woodson can be when it comes to his role in certain coverages and defenses. Let's just say that he was and never will be an easy player to coach. He much prefers doing things his way.

As far as taking young players under his wing, that definitely isn't Woodson. The Packers hoped that a blood-and-guts competitor such as Al Harris would bring his running-mate into the mix. Instead, Woodson seems to have little interaction with Harris or any other players, for that matter.

Woodson is a polite loner. He will remove his headphones to answer questions. But as Mike McCarthy put it last month, "He's kind of real to himself."

For a $37 million investment, all teams would seek someone that impressionable young players could look to emulate. Woodson isn't that guy and doesn't pretend to be that guy.

To a degree, he was the same way at Michigan. Great player, below average teammate.

It's hard to say if the Packers made the right phone calls last spring. Not to minimize Thompson's role as the decision-maker, but he's also reliant on his pro scouting department for sound background information.

But there should have been no surprises.

Six months ago, the plus column on Woodson would have included rare size, good hitter and rare athletic ability, at least at one time. The minus column should have included poor off-season work habits, long injury history, tough to coach and a potential problem in the locker room.

Maybe the Packers are satisfied. They don't have to start Ahmad Carroll. Woodson has stayed healthy and plays every down, generally at respectable level. And the money had to be spent on someone.

A veteran team needing one more cover guy to win it all probably would have been the ideal fit for Woodson. Coming off 4-12 and with rebuilding on the brain, the Packers didn't seem to fit then and really don't now.

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Two scouts said it looked like Woodson wasn't even trying that night. As alarming as his refusal to finish plays was, it was only an exhibition game. But then almost the same thing happened in the fourth quarter at Ford Field, when Furrey burned Woodson by 5 yards with a stutter step on a shallow crossing route.
I said he didn't look like he was trying too. He looked pathetic!!

Woodson actually broke stride as Furrey approached the sideline, in effect letting teammates get him down. Fortunately for the Packers, a late lunge by Brady Poppinga got Furrey out of bounds or the 25-yard gain might have been a lot more.
I mentioned this after the game and possibly during the game. It was pathetic. He slowed down a bit then sped up then slowed down. It was classic Ahmad Carroll give up on the play crap.




Anothing thing of note on Woodson when he was asked why he chose Green Bay, his answer was "money".
 

cyoung

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He is not washed up (as I've heard before) he is lazy, if he would put effort in his work he would be fantastic (again)...he also sounds like a greedy bastard
 

majikman

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Hate to say it, but this was the knock on him all along in the NFL before he was signed.

Not sure why people are surprised by it now.
 

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You all are unfortunately saying the same thing that my friend the Raiders fan said.

When I heard Woodson signed with the Pack, I immediately called him to rub it in his face. Well, he came over and we had some dinner and some beers and he set me straight. "He has tremendous potential, and could be the best shutdown cornerback in the league," my friend the Raiders fan said, "but he never will be because he's lazy. He doesn't work out. He relies too much on his physical abilities. And he always gets injured."

Well, that wasn't the conversation word for word, but a summary of it. After our talk, I was bummed. I was thinking it was a big waste of money.

I sincerely hope my friend the Raiders fan is wrong and Woodson turns out to be the next Deion Sanders. But so far, my friend the Raiders fan seems to be right. :(
 
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Zero2Cool

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I was pretty stoked about the signing. From what I heard his lack of effort was because of the coaching staff which numerous players came publically out against. I had hoped a fresh start for him would mean great things for he and the team.

I'm thinking I was wrong, big time.

Atleast he can return punts, right??
 

cyoung

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when I first heard the pack signed Woodson I remembered his years at Michigan he was good. I thought maybe he would do the same in Green Bay, and he still has time to do that, I hope he will.
 

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Zero2Cool said:
I was pretty stoked about the signing. From what I heard his lack of effort was because of the coaching staff which numerous players came publically out against. I had hoped a fresh start for him would mean great things for he and the team.

I'm thinking I was wrong, big time.

Atleast he can return punts, right??

Heh, better than the last guy we had. I see Woodson breaking one this year.
 

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Zero2Cool said:
Posted: Sept. 30, 2006
On the Packers



"You've got to give him time," a personnel director for a recent Packers' opponent said. "But he doesn't play with a motor. He kind of just drifts. Does he like football?"

It's hard to say. Woodson had some fine years early at Oakland. Jon Gruden challenged him, and he responded. He was never as good as Mike Haynes, but with his phenomenal talent and youthful exuberance few of Woodson's contemporaries played the position better.

But later, under coaches Bill Callahan and Norv Turner, Woodson almost seemed to be bored on the field. The Raiders hit the skids. Injuries befell him.

Could his reputation as a "cover corner" and teams throwing at the other corner kind of lull him into complacency? Or does this sound to anyone else like attention deficit? Does he need Ritalin, Adderall, or Straterra to help maintain his concentration?

In light of Manuel's struggles, maybe we should go ahead and move Woodson to safety and let Carroll back in at CB - It would allow Carroll to get more experience since, due to his age, he will probably be here long after Woodson and Manuel are gone.
 

Zombieslayer

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PackFanInSC said:
Zero2Cool said:
Posted: Sept. 30, 2006
On the Packers



"You've got to give him time," a personnel director for a recent Packers' opponent said. "But he doesn't play with a motor. He kind of just drifts. Does he like football?"

It's hard to say. Woodson had some fine years early at Oakland. Jon Gruden challenged him, and he responded. He was never as good as Mike Haynes, but with his phenomenal talent and youthful exuberance few of Woodson's contemporaries played the position better.

But later, under coaches Bill Callahan and Norv Turner, Woodson almost seemed to be bored on the field. The Raiders hit the skids. Injuries befell him.

Could his reputation as a "cover corner" and teams throwing at the other corner kind of lull him into complacency? Or does this sound to anyone else like attention deficit? Does he need Ritalin, Adderall, or Straterra to help maintain his concentration?

In light of Manuel's struggles, maybe we should go ahead and move Woodson to safety and let Carroll back in at CB - It would allow Carroll to get more experience since, due to his age, he will probably be here long after Woodson and Manuel are gone.

Funny, I was thinking that too. Move Woodson to safety and put Carroll back at CB. A lot of people on this forum hate Carroll, but I see him as someone with a lot of potential (and he's probably the fastest guy on the team) that needs to be coached correctly. Carroll was not a wasted #1 pick. When this kid matures, he's going to be good. He just needs time, discipline, and coaching.

Woodson needs a strong coach that won't put up with his crap. I think he would be great under Holgrem.

Manuel just seems like a waste. I'd rather see Woodson and Collins back there with Harris and Carroll our CBs. Get these guys to communicate properly and we'll have a decent secondary.
 
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Zero2Cool

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Dump Manuel.
Move Woodson to Saftety.
Move Carroll to CB.
Fire Schottenheimer.
Hire anyone not named Schottenheimer to replace him.
 

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If Woodson has problems with attitude, ambition and aging, moving him to safety isn't going to help. I say chalk this one up to another TT free agent miscalculation and move on. We're better off with a young player getting experience than an old player getting overpaid.

As the old saying goes, why throw good money away after bad?
 

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An athlete with a lot of talent who doesn't work at it, is simply a talented player who doesn't work hard. A talented play who works hard, prepares well, gives his best all the time is a superstar. Woodson may have Hall of Fame talent, but he lacks the one thing that could get him there, it's called character. He's selfish, self-centered with a "me first" attitude and guys like that can be dangerous on a team that needs leaders. Unfortunately, too often the young players look at guys like this as role models because of that talent.
 

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Interesting article. In the off season, I was surprised to hear that Thompson was even considering signing Woodson, because he seemed like such a bad fit for this team due to his age and attitude. I wasn't even sure that he would be an upgrade over Carroll. Woodson has been okay at CB, but nothing special. I think he has much more potential as a punt returner. That job is a better fit for him because it's more about using his natural talents and instinct. I think he will pay some dividends there, but it won't be enough to make him worth the money unless he really steps it up at CB.
 
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Zero2Cool

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majikman said:
Possibly could have signed Hutchinson for that kind of money.

Golly that would have been nice!! Two big plus's from that. One, the Vikings dont have him and obviously the second is we would! The big negative though we'd have Carroll starting :( Not to mention who would be taking Carrolls place. Jason Horton?


pyledriver80 said:
I stated this all along and was bashed over and over for it.
You're bashed over and over because... well no one likes negativity, no one.
You say you said Woodson would suck, imagine that. You saying something negative about the Packers (whom u state r not a fan of)!


After three games an a poorass pre-season showing you sir are correct. Woodson has lost a LOT. I hope he turns it up a knotch, but it really doesn't look like he wants to. He gives me the impression of someone whos jus going through the motions and collecting a huge paycheck.



I think Woodson is not our biggest concern on defense. I have to say one of Ted's other signings, Marquand Manuel is far worse. Followed by one his draft picks, Brady Poppinga.

I've seen positives out of every starter when reviewing the games except those two. Poppinga is fair against the run, Manuel isn't too bad against the run. But against the Pass we might as well only field 9 guys out there.
 

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majikman said:
Possibly could have signed Hutchinson for that kind of money.

So true but again looking back most NFL people and you hear this all the time on ESPN would agree that spending the money on a CB was the right move. Usually on the offensive line it's your tackles (mainly your QB's blind side) that gets the big bucks.

With that said if you could go back in time then Hutch as of now would of been the guy.
 

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porky88 said:
majikman said:
Possibly could have signed Hutchinson for that kind of money.

So true but again looking back most NFL people and you hear this all the time on ESPN would agree that spending the money on a CB was the right move. Usually on the offensive line it's your tackles (mainly your QB's blind side) that gets the big bucks.

With that said if you could go back in time then Hutch as of now would of been the guy.

Could you imagine if the offensive line was...

Clifton, Hutchinson, Wells, Wahle, and Tauscher?

Man, that would be awesome.

With a normal blocking scheme, that is..
 
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Zero2Cool

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majikman said:
porky88 said:
majikman said:
Possibly could have signed Hutchinson for that kind of money.

So true but again looking back most NFL people and you hear this all the time on ESPN would agree that spending the money on a CB was the right move. Usually on the offensive line it's your tackles (mainly your QB's blind side) that gets the big bucks.

With that said if you could go back in time then Hutch as of now would of been the guy.

Could you imagine if the offensive line was...

Clifton, Hutchinson, Wells, Wahle, and Tauscher?

Man, that would be awesome.

With a normal blocking scheme, that is..

Hell yes! Even Herron could get 1,000 with that OL lol
 

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Mc Ginn mentions in his article that Woodson is a hard hitter.

I have yet to see any evidence that Woodson is a hard hitter.

Going through the motions is a perfect description of this money grabbing primadonna.

Move him to safety and watch the problems begin, he will become a cancer.
 

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Zero2Cool said:
Dump Manuel.
Move Woodson to Saftety.
Move Carroll to CB.
Fire Schottenheimer.
Hire anyone not named Schottenheimer to replace him.

By fire Stchot,,, you mean a firing squad???

I vote for that !!!
 
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Zero2Cool

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Woodsons best season. (his rookie year)
62 Tackles, 0 Sack, 5 INT's, 1 TD, Passes Defensed 15

Woodson's season after 14 games.
53 Tackles, 1 Sack, 6 INT's, 1 TD, Passes Defensed 12



The agreement is a seven-year deal that can be worth as much as $52 million, ESPN.com's Michael Smith reports. Woodson will make $10.5 million in the first year of the deal and $18 million over the first three years. Woodson will also receive a $3 million bonus if he is selected to the Pro Bowl in two of the first three years of the contract.
Missing out on the Pro Bowl hurts Charles more than Al, lol.
 

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