Top needs going into the off season

[Wynnebeck]

How many receivers in the league could have that production with Rodgers, though? James Jones was the league leader in TDs before.

But like Cobb, take Gronk away and people can focus more attention on Edelman. He'll still get his share of catches, because it's a more receiver-friendly system, but he's nobody's main concern when the best target in the league is also on the field.

Which makes Cobb one of the best slot receivers in the NFL when Jordy is healthy. He is damn good at what he does and the money we paid for him was a steal compared to what he was being offered. With defenses focused on Nelson, it opens up the entire middle of the field for Cobb to **** and dunk. Why do you think Nelson/Cobb is regarded as one of the top WR tandems in the league? Apparently Nelson and Cobb suck and Rodgets just makes everyone godlike by throwing to them. /sarcasm

 

[Sunshinepacker]

How'd Randall look with those 50 yards of space last season? A real number one can't be schemed against as easily. Teams just brought a safety up in the box and Randall Cobb looked... average. Heck even when he was wide open he kept dropping bunnies.

Edelman's a good receiver, but what is he worth? Cobb is potentially a great offensive weapon but he's just not worth what we're paying him. Look ideally we'd have a 20 million per year quarterback, which we have, a quality OL which we have parts of, an elite wide receiver which we've had but who knows how well he recovers from an ACL, and then two dynamic tightends who can catch and block. You then run a hurry up offense with Cobb motioning between the backfield and the slot. The trouble, how much money do we need to spend on offense for Cobb to be an effective weapon? Thirty million dollars between Jordy and Aaron Rodgers, and if Jordy Nelson goes down we're screwed. I'd rather have a true number two who can also work outside and keep teams from crowding us inside the hashmarks. I could see Randall Cobb at 7 maybe 8 mill per year, but 10 is too much.

BTW check out Julian Edelman's contract and then look at Randall Cobb's,

http://espn.go.com/blog/boston/new-...id/4760458/closer-look-at-edelmans-contract-2

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...ndall-cobb-packers-agree-to-fouryear-40m-deal

Would I call out Randall Cobb if he was making Julian Edelman money? Nope, but sorry Mr. Cobb robbed this team.

It's been pointed out in numerous locations that the Packers coaches did a terrible job of adjusting their scheme to compensate for the loss of Nelson. Not sure how it's Cobb's fault that the coaches didn't adjust their gameplan to utilize his strengths in the best way possible. How many routes do the Pats run that incorporate stacked formations, rub routes, etc. in an effort to get guys open? Now compare that to the Packers, who seem to be allergic to those routes.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

For me, the top priorities are

1) Tackle - Probably one who can play either side.
2) ILB

I'll never understand this obsessive need to get a "great" tackle....when was the last time an elite tackle lead their team to a Super Bowl? How good were the tackles on the Giants Super Bowl teams? Or the Pats or Seahawks? The Packers current tackles are limited but they are not what's holding the Packers back. Exact same tackles last season and it didn't seem to hinder the offense.

Top needs:
1) NT (would be really cool to see what the defense would like with an above average NT for once)
2) ILB (this might actually be OLB depending on what happens with Perry and Peppers)
3) TE

 

[XPack]

I'll never understand this obsessive need to get a "great" tackle

Never said "great". All I need is someone who is not a liability there. If Baktiari is out, our whole line got shaky. We need a better arrangement to ensure reliance despite injuries.

 

[easyk83]

It's been pointed out in numerous locations that the Packers coaches did a terrible job of adjusting their scheme to compensate for the loss of Nelson. Not sure how it's Cobb's fault that the coaches didn't adjust their gameplan to utilize his strengths in the best way possible. How many routes do the Pats run that incorporate stacked formations, rub routes, etc. in an effort to get guys open? Now compare that to the Packers, who seem to be allergic to those routes.

Honestly, what probably irritated me the most was his recently developed habit of dropping bunnies. At 10 mill per season you can't be turning up field before the ball gets to you. He had one against Az for first down yardage with the closest defender 5 yards away, well thrown ball right in the bread basket and he muffed it.

 

[easyk83]

For me, Cobb is the supporting talent here. You always need a X receiver to draw the coverage. Jordy's verticals does that enabling Cobb to shine. Put Cobb one one one and he'll get the better against most coverage. Without Jordy, clamping down on Cobb by doubling him up is quite easy. Nothing on Cobb, but it's way more difficult for any versatile player to do that.

I would value Cobb higher than Edelman, but for me the sticking point is the total amount. I guess if was built a bit heavier and could be more effective in the slot in tight coverage or if he was able to take more handoffs out of the backfield I could see 10 mill. But just not with his skill set.

 

[Caleb Hendricks]

Was that really how he was looked at? It's a long time ago, and I don't pay all that much attention, but I always associated the word "safe" with the Hawk pick.

Although the Hawk pick may have been "safe", he was still one of the top players available at that point. It's easy to look back now and see how great Haloti Ngata turned out, but this was a time when the Packers still ran their 4-3 so it wouldn't have been the same fit. At that point in the draft, the best available players were safeties Huff and Whitner, and Vernon Davis. Anyone else really would have been a reach, and coming off of a 4-12 record we needed someone that could make the biggest impact. Although a TE like Davis would have been nice, Hawk jumped into a crucial role at a much needed linebacker position. We didn't really need a safety either with Nick Collins, Mark Roman, and Atari Bigby.

 

[easyk83]

Although the Hawk pick may have been "safe", he was still one of the top players available at that point. It's easy to look back now and see how great Haloti Ngata turned out, but this was a time when the Packers still ran their 4-3 so it wouldn't have been the same fit. At that point in the draft, the best available players were safeties Huff and Whitner, and Vernon Davis. Anyone else really would have been a reach, and coming off of a 4-12 record we needed someone that could make the biggest impact. Although a TE like Davis would have been nice, Hawk jumped into a crucial role at a much needed linebacker position. We didn't really need a safety either with Nick Collins, Mark Roman, and Atari Bigby.

Davis had attitude issues and publicly stated he didn't want to play in GB.

 

[Caleb Hendricks]

Davis had attitude issues and publicly stated he didn't want to play in GB.

Ok so there you go, that's why they didn't take him. Who else would you recommend then other than Hawk?

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Although the Hawk pick may have been "safe", he was still one of the top players available at that point. It's easy to look back now and see how great Haloti Ngata turned out, but this was a time when the Packers still ran their 4-3 so it wouldn't have been the same fit. At that point in the draft, the best available players were safeties Huff and Whitner, and Vernon Davis. Anyone else really would have been a reach, and coming off of a 4-12 record we needed someone that could make the biggest impact. Although a TE like Davis would have been nice, Hawk jumped into a crucial role at a much needed linebacker position. We didn't really need a safety either with Nick Collins, Mark Roman, and Atari Bigby.

I get your point, but Ngata was a DT, not a NT for the Ravens. I hate all this what if stuff because it just gets me irritated and there's nothing we can do. I would have loved to have Allen Robinson over Davante and drafted Telvin Smith, but we didn't. Now we can only look toward the future and hope we learned from our mistakes.

 

[easyk83]

Ok so there you go, that's why they didn't take him. Who else would you recommend then other than Hawk?

With the benefit of hindsight obviously Ngata, but AJ Hawk looked like an amazing prospect. People remember Hawk as a slow tentative overstuffed disappointment. But at OSU he was about 20 pounds lighter and played with speed and aggression. AJ Hawk demonstrated some of the pitfalls of the draft, you never know how a college player might develop in the NFL.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Richard a Rodgers looks larger than he did in college. Not a Lacy situation, but you could tell he was slimmer and more agile. Still not a very nifty player, but at least then he had the athleticism of an average TE.

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As a junior, Rodgers played at 245 pounds and shifted to inside receiver under new coach Sonny *****. Currently the Packers have him listed at 257 and while losing some weight would most likely help him as a receiver his already shaky blocking would suffer even more. IMO the Packers are in desperate need of an upgrade at the positon.

Randall Cobb needs to take a pay cut or get cut, he's taking too much money to be just a slot specialist who rides on Jordy's coat tails.

It´s true that Cobb didn´t play up to his contract this year but comig off a spectacular season in 2014 the Packers had to offer him a deal in the range of $10 million to re-sign him. There´s absolutely no reason to cut him as the move would result in an additional cap hit of $600K.

Masthay had the best net average in Packer history. All that matters is where the ball is at the end of the play. If you boom a punt 50+ yards, you're going to out-kick your coverage unit. Zook wanted him to punt for hang time, which was excellent, and it resulted in almost 70% of his punts being fair catches with the end result being the best this team has ever had.

While all of what you´re saying is true Masthay shanked way too many punts. He should be replaced by a more consistent punter.

 

[Half Empty]

Went back to a few 2006 draft profiles to prove that Hawk was good but 'safe'. Boy, was I wrong. Quick, agile, able to cover on pass routes, blitzer, et. al. I have to give TT perhaps a little more credit and just decry the actual lack of production, for whatever reason.

 

[RRyder]

Went back to a few 2006 draft profiles to prove that Hawk was good but 'safe'. Boy, was I wrong. Quick, agile, able to cover on pass routes, blitzer, et. al. I have to give TT perhaps a little more credit and just decry the actual lack of production, for whatever reason.

People have been quick to forget that Hawk was a damn good prospect comming out. Good on ya for admiting it

 

[TJV]

As I remember it, for most Packers fans before the 2006 draft it was a choice between Hawk and Davis. I don't remember Ngata, selected 7 picks after Hawk, being in the conversation except perhaps among draftniks. I thought Hawk was a very good pick at the time. Look at his career at Ohio State and imagine that guy in the middle of your 4-3 defense. In addition to his physical attributes, he appeared to be very hard working and smart, and he turned out to be. He was dedicated to the point of having a hyperbolic chamber in his bedroom (not sure how much good that did, though). Just another in an endless line of examples of how much of a crap shoot the draft is.

 

[Mondio]

I don't remember ngata being in the convo either, but Davis and Hawk, and Hawk was a pretty decent player. A decade later he's still playing, albeit on a defense part time, but a good defense none the less. He was a solid player for us for a long time. Nobody is confusing him with Ray Lewis, but a lot of people seem to want to remember an older and inured guy as the only guy that was here all those years. For the first couple seasons after that draft, it looked like GB made the right pick. Davis was a non-factor, malcontent head case. Same as he seems to be in Denver again even though they're in the AFCCG, and the same reason the finally got rid of him in SF. Kind of glad we never had him

 

[easyk83]

Ngata wasn't in the conversation. Cortland Finnegan also wasn't in the conversation as a 7th rounder either but if you repicked that draft he would go somewhere in the first. Nothing beats hindsight in evaluating talent.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

While all of what you´re saying is true Masthay shanked way too many punts. He should be replaced by a more consistent punter.

Masthay will be the punter until another punter takes his job away in training camp. I doubt that will happen.

 

[sdh09e44]

Backside? Where was Randall Cobb last season? He's a slot specialist, a number 3 receiver who requires surrounding talent otherwise he isn't able to get open or make plays consistently. Jordy Nelson put up 1,300 yards 85 receptions and 8 touchdowns back in 2013 despite playing half the season without Aaron Rodgers and half the season without Randall Cobb. Jordy Nelson still looked like a number 1 receiver with backups throwing him the ball and quite frankly with much more attention from opposing defenses than Mr. Cobb. Nelson is a true number 1 and a player worth 10 million per year. Randall Cobb is a guy who likely disappears on most teams in the league. Randall Cobb is not worth 10 million per year and that's a sentiment that I had before he was signed to that big extension, he's a limited player when cast as a receiver. He's more of a slash type player who can create mismatches by shifting from position to position.

Yes he rode Jordy's coat tails who not only pulled the number 1 corner of opposing defenses but usually a safety as well. Which forced teams to play their other safety high, this allowed Randall Cobb to abuse nickel backs. He's a product of the scheme more than his own inherent ability. Cut him loose and unless he winds up on a team with a real number 1 receiver he'll disappear.

Not gonna get into how much you're right or wrong here...
but you better learn how to like Cobb again cause he's not going anywhere and his resurgence is going to be huge for this team going forward.

 

[Deleted member 6794]

Masthay will be the punter until another punter takes his job away in training camp. I doubt that will happen.

I'm quite sure the Packers front office should be able to find a more consistent punter than Masthay. He shanked way too many balls over the last two seasons, no reason to hold on to him.

 

[PackerDNA]

I'm quite sure the Packers front office should be able to find a more consistent punter than Masthay. He shanked way too many balls over the last two seasons, no reason to hold on to him.

Change moves like a glacier here. Masthay probably has 2 more years here.

 

[OldSchool101]

True i should have noticed that. Hopefully the front office knows about nelson's rehab bc spending a high pick on a wr seems like a little bit of a waste if jordy is healthy. If jordy is healthy we are set with he cobb montgomery adams Abby and janis.

Initially, on the surface, it could be argued it'd be a waste and a year ago I'd maybe agree with you. After last year we realized we have only 1 true reliable vertical threat (honorable mention to Janis) 1 injury all but crippled our Offense. we went from #1 to #26!! that's a major major problem and one we MUST fix.
Last year pre draft I called for a OL for depth and was dismissed. My argument? We invest $20,000,000 a year in arguably the greatest QB to still play today's game. We have to protect AR period. We also have an obligation to surround him with talent. 1 vertical threat is not enough unless maybe. Maybe we invest heavy at TE and OL

 

[easyk83]

Not gonna get into how much you're right or wrong here...
but you better learn how to like Cobb again cause he's not going anywhere and his resurgence is going to be huge for this team going forward.

It's not an issue of liking him, by all accounts he's a great guy. But we're overpaying him.

 

[bigbubbatd]

Initially, on the surface, it could be argued it'd be a waste and a year ago I'd maybe agree with you. After last year we realized we have only 1 true reliable vertical threat (honorable mention to Janis) 1 injury all but crippled our Offense. we went from #1 to #26!! that's a major major problem and one we MUST fix.
Last year pre draft I called for a OL for depth and was dismissed. My argument? We invest $20,000,000 a year in arguably the greatest QB to still play today's game. We have to protect AR period. We also have an obligation to surround him with talent. 1 vertical threat is not enough unless maybe. Maybe we invest heavy at TE and OL

I agree we need a vertical threat. I just feel like the TE position is a better spot to look at for that. If they can get a vertical threat at wr I guess that is fine but our wr group was crushed by injury this year. It is hard to plan for losing your number 1, 3, 4 and having your 2 play with a bum shoulder much of the year. Even their number 5 *** injured much of the year. Janis was the only wr who came to camp and was healthy all year right?

Next year we are adding Nelson and Montgomery back to that wr group which should help quite a bit. Add a vertical threat at te and it is easily a top end offense again

 

[RyanO4]

And I wouldn't put it past us drafting another WR early either. I honestly think Adams roster spot is in jeopardy.

I'm wondering if TT and company will play a wait-and-see game at ILB. We have Barrington coming back and I am curious if they perhaps see our two ILB's being Barrington and Ryan next year while moving Clay back outside.

He most likely will and it will be just like the hawk/jones duo, which was terrible.