Top needs going into the off season

[Wynnebeck]

Randall Cobb needs to take a pay cut or get cut, he's taking too much money to be just a slot specialist who rides on Jordy's coat tails.

Coat tails? You realize when Jordy was still healthy, multiple analysts were talking about Cobb bein one of the best slot receivers in the league and guess what? He still is. However as we saw, MM saw how the loss of Jordy completely ruined their season and forced Cobb to be put in a role that was want for Jordy. That's the reason why we need a Jordy Nelson type WR or field stretching TE for security in case the injury bug hits again. Me think you need to stop talking out of your backside.

 

[easyk83]

Coat tails? You realize when Jordy was still healthy, multiple analysts were talking about Cobb bein one of the best slot receivers in the league and guess what? He still is. However as we saw, MM saw how the loss of Jordy completely ruined their season and forced Cobb to be put in a role that was want for Jordy. That's the reason why we need a Jordy Nelson type WR or field stretching TE for security in case the injury bug hits again. Me think you need to stop talking out of your backside.

Backside? Where was Randall Cobb last season? He's a slot specialist, a number 3 receiver who requires surrounding talent otherwise he isn't able to get open or make plays consistently. Jordy Nelson put up 1,300 yards 85 receptions and 8 touchdowns back in 2013 despite playing half the season without Aaron Rodgers and half the season without Randall Cobb. Jordy Nelson still looked like a number 1 receiver with backups throwing him the ball and quite frankly with much more attention from opposing defenses than Mr. Cobb. Nelson is a true number 1 and a player worth 10 million per year. Randall Cobb is a guy who likely disappears on most teams in the league. Randall Cobb is not worth 10 million per year and that's a sentiment that I had before he was signed to that big extension, he's a limited player when cast as a receiver. He's more of a slash type player who can create mismatches by shifting from position to position.

Yes he rode Jordy's coat tails who not only pulled the number 1 corner of opposing defenses but usually a safety as well. Which forced teams to play their other safety high, this allowed Randall Cobb to abuse nickel backs. He's a product of the scheme more than his own inherent ability. Cut him loose and unless he winds up on a team with a real number 1 receiver he'll disappear.

 

[Caleb Hendricks]

Benjamin plays with no lead a lot and is good. With the Packers they can use him in the clutch. Abby gets hurt often and looks small according to your eyes. Montgomery is injury prone. Adams is up in the air and has a lower percentage of drops in his career compared to Nelson and Jones. Adams was hurt and played like .... Janis is a # 4 WR at best. He reminds me of Bill Schroeder. He didn't win anything in Green Bay. Benjamin brings speed and Cleveland/Hurricane fan base for a possible Super Bowl in Miami (2019-2020).

Travis Benjamin is basically another Ted Ginn. He is only good for one deep balls. Sure he may have a couple games that he has a complete mismatch, but his ball skills and physical abilities aren't enough to make him a true deep threat who can draw pass interference calls. I'm not going to argue that he isn't a solid speedster who can blow the top of a sleeping defense. But there isn't enough there that would translate to consistent production in the Packers system. He has a hard time getting off the line when he is pressed and he doesn't have the physical size or strength to recover when he is jammed. Besides that, he struggles in the middle of the field to make plays in traffic, which is a real knock on him due to the fact that his size is meant for a slot receiver. He may be able to make some plays here and there, but not consistently enough for the team to consider making room for an already loaded position.

 

[Wynnebeck]

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/Randall-Cobb-named-the-No-1-slot-receiver-in-the-NFL-38144471

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...an-randall-cobb-among-nfls-top-slot-receivers

I can keep going but the point remains that Cobb is worth his contract. I never said that Cobb was a WR1 and that's because Cobb never was WR1 material. He's small and shifty and can stretch the hashmarks when defenses are worried about Jordy. He had one of the best years for a slot receiver in 2014 and even this season was ranked in the top 10 among his peers going into October with an injury:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/20/top-10-slot-receivers-this-season/

It sounds more like you personally have a problem with him as hinted by your disapproval of him getting resigned then actually having a valid reason as to why we should somehow get rid of Cobb. He's not a WR1. Ok, he's a WR2 slot monster. That's good enough for TT and MM.

 

[Caleb Hendricks]

Backside? Where was Randall Cobb last season? He's a slot specialist, a number 3 receiver who requires surrounding talent otherwise he isn't able to get open or make plays consistently. Jordy Nelson put up 1,300 yards 85 receptions and 8 touchdowns back in 2013 despite playing half the season without Aaron Rodgers and half the season without Randall Cobb. Jordy Nelson still looked like a number 1 receiver with backups throwing him the ball and quite frankly with much more attention from opposing defenses than Mr. Cobb. Nelson is a true number 1 and a player worth 10 million per year. Randall Cobb is a guy who likely disappears on most teams in the league. Randall Cobb is not worth 10 million per year and that's a sentiment that I had before he was signed to that big extension, he's a limited player when cast as a receiver. He's more of a slash type player who can create mismatches by shifting from position to position.

Yes he rode Jordy's coat tails who not only pulled the number 1 corner of opposing defenses but usually a safety as well. Which forced teams to play their other safety high, this allowed Randall Cobb to abuse nickel backs. He's a product of the scheme more than his own inherent ability. Cut him loose and unless he winds up on a team with a real number 1 receiver he'll disappear.

I think the point you are missing is what exactly it was that Jordy did that helped make Randall so useful. When Jordy was on the field, safeties had to respect him as a deep threat on any given play. When a safety is on his heels making sure to not let anything behind him, he gives up the underneath crossing routes, which is where Randall excels the most. This year however, there was no deep threat at WR, so the corners played 1-1 coverage down the field and the safeties were able to play forward and take away the middle of the field. So yes, Randall is better when Jordy is on the field, as is the case for all slot receivers. They need a guy to help open up the field and allow space in the middle to operate.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

I think Montgomery can do a lot of the same stuff that Cobb does with the same deficiencies and do it for less than 1 mill per year.

Wow...impressive that you can tell all that from how a rookie played in only six games.

 

[Un4GivN]

Would you have called out Aaron Rodgers? With a player of his stature I think you express your disagreements privately so as to avoid a Civil War. Lacy and RR need to come back slimmer, Davante shouldn't have been called out he needs to mature. Randall Cobb needs to take a pay cut or get cut, he's taking too much money to be just a slot specialist who rides on Jordy's coat tails.

EDIT: With Davante it's possible that by heaping additional pressure on him that the Coaches will be able to evaluate him better.

I would more than MM does... Not publicly in a press-conference. But on the field. How the hell do you miss a 4 yard pass on fourth down.

People won't talk about it because of the miraculous comeback. But seriously, if he makes that pass maybe we don't need overtime. Huge mistake, especially on an easy throw. The place he threw it to wouldn't even have been a first down.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

I would more than MM does... Not publicly in a press-conference. But on the field. How the hell do you miss a 4 yard pass on fourth down.

People won't talk about it because of the miraculous comeback. But seriously, if he makes that pass maybe we don't need overtime. Huge mistake, especially on an easy throw. The place he threw it to wouldn't even have been a first down.

He made one of the most Amazing throws in NFL history as time expired to tie the game. I think we can forgive him for that throw.

 

[Un4GivN]

He made one of the most Amazing throws in NFL history as time expired to tie the game. I think we can forgive him for that throw.

That's a big stretch... But even if we follow your premise.

The 4 yard play could help win the game, and instead gave Arizona 3 more points.

The hail mary helps tie the game.

One of these was more important, and he doesn't have to make the second throw if he doesn't mess up the first. You want to be talked about being the best, you CANNOT miss those passes on 4th down in the playoffs.

Also if we go by this premise...

I don't blame the defense for collapsing in OT, they did amazing entire regulation. So Ill forgive them for allowing 80 yard drive in 3 plays to end the game.

So really it's simple it is no ones fault since. Bad plays are negated by good ones.

 

[Patriotplayer90]

That's a big stretch... But even if we follow your premise.

The 4 yard play could help win the game, and instead gave Arizona 3 more points.

The hail mary helps tie the game.

One of these was more important, and he doesn't have to make the second throw if he doesn't mess up the first. You want to be talked about being the best, you CANNOT miss those passes on 4th down in the playoffs.

Also if we go by this premise...

I don't blame the defense for collapsing in OT, they did amazing entire regulation. So Ill forgive them for allowing 80 yard drive in 3 plays to end the game.

So really it's simple it is no ones fault since. Bad plays are negated by good ones.

You don't drop INTs either. We can find mistakes everyone made throughout the entire game. I can't blame the defense for the OT collapse, as we should have gotten another chance to have the ball. I blame the archaic OT rules in the NFL.

 

[Un4GivN]

You don't drop INTs either. We can find mistakes everyone made throughout the entire game. I can't blame the defense for the OT collapse, as we should have gotten another chance to have the ball. I blame the archaic OT rules in the NFL.

Hmmm ya, we won't see eye 2 eye on this one. I like the overtime rules and believe a future hall of famer needs to make that pass. The blame of course isn't all on him. Many other errors as well. But that was 3 points your best player cannot give away in the playoffs.

 

[Packer96]

I'd say the draft should look like this,

1) BVA
2) BVA
3) BVA
4) BVA
5) BVA
6) BVA
7) BVA

What is BVA? Best value available. It's an approach that looks at the ability of a player and weighs that against team need, scheme projection and the team's depth chart. Basically it's BPA without worrying about drafting at covered positions. I think the team needs to look for the best players and while it would be nice to get a good player at a position of need it would be better to get a good player as opposed to a John Michaels, Aaron Taylor, Derek Sherrod, Nick Perry, Jamal Reynolds etc. So while fans might gripe when a player like Aaron Rodgers or Jordy Nelson is draft in spite of more immediate needs, the skills of the better player will often shine through in the end.

Like all of you, bleed green and gold, the above post made me think, who is deciding best value available? Maybe it's our scouting. I think the year we took Hawk wasn't Nagota picked after us?

 

[easyk83]

http://gnb.247sports.com/Bolt/Randall-Cobb-named-the-No-1-slot-receiver-in-the-NFL-38144471

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...an-randall-cobb-among-nfls-top-slot-receivers

I can keep going but the point remains that Cobb is worth his contract. I never said that Cobb was a WR1 and that's because Cobb never was WR1 material. He's small and shifty and can stretch the hashmarks when defenses are worried about Jordy. He had one of the best years for a slot receiver in 2014 and even this season was ranked in the top 10 among his peers going into October with an injury:

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/10/20/top-10-slot-receivers-this-season/

It sounds more like you personally have a problem with him as hinted by your disapproval of him getting resigned then actually having a valid reason as to why we should somehow get rid of Cobb. He's not a WR1. Ok, he's a WR2 slot monster. That's good enough for TT and MM.

1) PFF is a ludicrous rating system completely devoid of any context, you can't judge a player's on field play in a vacuum although they try. See Bill Belicheck's explanation for why PFF blows.

2) He's not a number 1 receiver but he's worth 10 million per year?

3) I don't have anything against Randall Cobb, he's probably one of the most likable players on the team. He's smart funny and charismatic enough to find his way to Hollywood when he's done playing. But look at what happened to our passing attack without Jordy Nelson, I ask you again why are we paying a slot specialist 10 mill per year? I'm sure he'd be fantastic in Denver or in New England or maybe even Chicago, as long as their's a real number 1 on the roster to keep him clean. Yes it's ridiculous to pay him as much or more than the types of players he needs to succeed.

4) He is a great player, he is remarkably versatile. But it's a tough business and at 10 million per year he should have been allowed to walk.

 

[easyk83]

Like all of you, bleed green and gold, the above post made me think, who is deciding best value available? Maybe it's our scouting. I think the year we took Hawk wasn't Nagota picked after us?

Well who is the best value at a particular spot in the draft. On one hand the highest rated ILB might fill a particular need but what if he isn't very good at that position compared to other players? On the other hand BPA has it's limits, what if the top player in round 1 or 2 is a quarterback best player maybe but useless on our present roster. On the other hand what if you see a truly special talent, someone who fell, but he's not at a position of immediate need? Would you turn down Chris Johnson for Brian Bulaga? Consider the Packers taking Jordy Nelson over say Brandon Flowers, we needed a young cornerback. nelson became an All Pro while Flowers was a pretty good player who faded fast with age. I think of BVA as BPA with a mindfulness towards team needs and playing time, why waste a 1st rounder on a guy who might never play for you.

 

[Wynnebeck]

1) PFF is a ludicrous rating system completely devoid of any context, you can't judge a player's on field play in a vacuum although they try. See Bill Belicheck's explanation for why PFF blows.

2) He's not a number 1 receiver but he's worth 10 million per year?

3) I don't have anything against Randall Cobb, he's probably one of the most likable players on the team. He's smart funny and charismatic enough to find his way to Hollywood when he's done playing. But look at what happened to our passing attack without Jordy Nelson, I ask you again why are we paying a slot specialist 10 mill per year? I'm sure he'd be fantastic in Denver or in New England or maybe even Chicago, as long as their's a real number 1 on the roster to keep him clean. Yes it's ridiculous to pay him as much or more than the types of players he needs to succeed.

4) He is a great player, he is remarkably versatile. But it's a tough business and at 10 million per year he should have been allowed to walk.

1. PFF has it's bad moments but they do good work. That's yours and Belichek's opinion.

2. This answers all of your questions pertaining to money but Cobb received offers from Raiders and other teams for 12+ million a year. We offered him 10 million which he accepted because he realize Green Bay is his best chance to win championships. We offered him 10 million because when him and Jordy are clicking, they become literally one of the most dangerous tandems in the league. You're a smart guy. You can figure out the rest.

 

[bigbubbatd]

I don't want to sit back and do nothing on offense but it seems like people have forgotten how good this offense was two years ago with the same pieces. If they add an athletic te, oline depth and a true 3rd down back this offense with be right at the top. That and if McCarthy is willing to get more creative routes on offense

 

[ThePerfectBeard]

Richard a Rodgers looks larger than he did in college. Not a Lacy situation, but you could tell he was slimmer and more agile. Still not a very nifty player, but at least then he had the athleticism of an average TE.

You must be logged in to see this image or video!

Man, He looks like such a different player in those highlight. He didn't go down on first contact, caught over the middle and actually out ran a few people. College is so different.

I also second signing Travis Benjamin. He's already experienced and if he could separate on the Browns, imagine what he could do with us. I don't think he would cost that much.

 

[easyk83]

1. PFF has it's bad moments but they do good work. That's yours and Belichek's opinion.

2. This answers all of your questions pertaining to money but Cobb received offers from Raiders and other teams for 12+ million a year. We offered him 10 million which he accepted because he realize Green Bay is his best chance to win championships. We offered him 10 million because when him and Jordy are clicking, they become literally one of the most dangerous tandems in the league. You're a smart guy. You can figure out the rest.

1. Good and Bad moments? A bad moment is judging Aaron Rodgers performance against the Chiefs as mediocre. Failing to account for protection schemes, whether or not a guard slides over to take away interior rushes, while judging OTs for instance is a systemic problem. Failing to account for adjustments called at the line or in the secondary is a systemic problem. Here for sale I'll offer you a box labeled Truffles, inside will be an actual turd. Sounds like a similar deal.

2. So that's the depth of your analysis, other teams would have wa sted more money on a trumped up number 3 receiver?

 

[Wynnebeck]

1. Good and Bad moments? A bad moment is judging Aaron Rodgers performance against the Chiefs as mediocre. Failing to account for protection schemes, whether or not a guard slides over to take away interior rushes, while judging OTs for instance is a systemic problem. Failing to account for adjustments called at the line or in the secondary is a systemic problem. Here for sale I'll offer you a box labeled Truffles, inside will be an actual turd. Sounds like a similar deal.

2. So that's the depth of your analysis, other teams would have wa sted more money on a trumped up number 3 receiver?

Lol this conversation is going nowhere. Several people have called you out for missing the forest for the trees and I you can't see why Cobb was offered what he was, that on you.

 

[easyk83]

Like all of you, bleed green and gold, the above post made me think, who is deciding best value available? Maybe it's our scouting. I think the year we took Hawk wasn't Nagota picked after us?

Hawk looked like an exceptional talent coming out of College, but that was as a 235 pound catch and chase LB, not an overstuffed 250+ pounder. Hard to say what would have been with AJ if he ddeveloped as a player while playing lighter.

 

[LarrysCrookedFinger]

PUNTER is also a need. A punter would do wonders for our team shockingly. I'm tired of Tim's 30 yard punts. We need someone who can boom punts 50+ yards.

Punter + Left Tackle are the two positions I hope we look toward FA at.

Masthay had the best net average in Packer history. All that matters is where the ball is at the end of the play. If you boom a punt 50+ yards, you're going to out-kick your coverage unit. Zook wanted him to punt for hang time, which was excellent, and it resulted in almost 70% of his punts being fair catches with the end result being the best this team has ever had.

 

[easyk83]

Lol this conversation is going nowhere. Several people have called you out for missing the forest for the trees and I you can't see why Cobb was offered what he was, that on you.

Lol? A couple disagreed with me and a couple on here have also called out Randall Cobb. Bear in mind I haven't even brought up Randall's recent struggles with layup type catches. He dropped another one prior to getting injured against the Cards. First you started out your argument, a stretch to call it that, with WHEN JORDY WAS HEALTHY. Jordy is a 10 million per year receiver, Randall Cobb is a trumped up slot specialist who needs an abundance of talent around him to be effective. One is an essential cornerstone player while one is more of a luxury.

 

[easyk83]

Wow...impressive that you can tell all that from how a rookie played in only six games.

Sure, they're both slot specialists who run with confidence out of the backfield. Both look lost running routes on the sidelines.

 

[Sunshinepacker]

Sure, they're both slot specialists who run with confidence out of the backfield. Both look lost running routes on the sidelines.

Good thing there are fifty yards between the sidelines for those guys to run around in...or is Julian Edelman not a good WR in your opinion either?

 

[Half Empty]

Hawk looked like an exceptional talent coming out of College, but that was as a 235 pound catch and chase LB, not an overstuffed 250+ pounder. Hard to say what would have been with AJ if he ddeveloped as a player while playing lighter.

Was that really how he was looked at? It's a long time ago, and I don't pay all that much attention, but I always associated the word "safe" with the Hawk pick.