Too early Hindsight? Firing McCarth and Hiring LeFleur

AmishMafia

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Did some more thinking and I believe that it was not MMs call. I think he said it was a good call to support his OC. That is the only thing that makes sense to me. Again a high character move by MM. But ultimately, the bad call is still his responsibility.
 

Sanguine camper

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MM has proven time and again that his in-game management stinks. TT's last 3 to 4 drafts were garbage so its hard to compare MM and MLF since Gute went and signed the Smith's, Amos and Turner to replenish talent when MLF took over. MLF has won a boat load of regular season games but his coaching so far in the playoffs has been inept to say the least. Once AR leaves. we'll find out in a hurry if MFL is special. Could be both coaches were carried by AR.
 

gopkrs

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IMO. McCarthy's problem was he coached "not to lose" instead of "to win".
That and after awhile, it seemed like all defenses knew how to guard our receivers patterns and he just would not change it up.
 

El Guapo

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That and after awhile, it seemed like all defenses knew how to guard our receivers patterns and he just would not change it up.
I think that many of you are focusing too much on the later years. Let's be honest. McCarthy resurrected Favre's career and oversaw the assentation of Rodgers'. Defenses had no idea how to guard our WRs from roughly 2009 to 2016. It was in 2017 and especially 2018 that his message to the team got stale as well as his schemes. As happens even with CEOs in the business world, eventually people start to tune out the same old song. Change is inevitable unless the leader is great at keeping things fresh and new.

McCarthy did have flaws, and one of them certainly was the mental mistakes out of his players. That theme seems to have followed him to the Cowboys as well.
 

PackAttack12

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MM has proven time and again that his in-game management stinks. TT's last 3 to 4 drafts were garbage so its hard to compare MM and MLF since Gute went and signed the Smith's, Amos and Turner to replenish talent when MLF took over. MLF has won a boat load of regular season games but his coaching so far in the playoffs has been inept to say the least. Once AR leaves. we'll find out in a hurry if MFL is special. Could be both coaches were carried by AR.
LaFleur got swiftly outcoached in 2019 at SF. I think he got way too caught up in going against his mentor that he over thought a lot of things and got distracted from some of the things he maybe should've been focused on.

And I don't want to give him a pass for last year against Tampa because I absolutely lit into his *** for not going for it on 4th and 8, which I still think was a gutless decision, but otherwise he coached pretty good. Not his fault that Petting and AJones handed the Bucs 14 points on a silver platter.

But I will say that LaFleur cannot have another gaff like that again this year.
 

gopkrs

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I think that many of you are focusing too much on the later years. Let's be honest. McCarthy resurrected Favre's career and oversaw the assentation of Rodgers'. Defenses had no idea how to guard our WRs from roughly 2009 to 2016. It was in 2017 and especially 2018 that his message to the team got stale as well as his schemes. As happens even with CEOs in the business world, eventually people start to tune out the same old song. Change is inevitable unless the leader is great at keeping things fresh and new.

McCarthy did have flaws, and one of them certainly was the mental mistakes out of his players. That theme seems to have followed him to the Cowboys as well.
Well yeah, the later years. For several years he would not change anything and we weren't going far. You are no longer a good coach if you stick with what is not working imho.
 

Dantés

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I really jumped in on the Packers towards the end of McCarthy's tenure. I was certainly aware of the Packers during his more successful era, but it wasn't really until 2017 that I was fully invested.

So I have never been impressed with McCarthy. As an offensive mind, his schematic approach basically boils down to "if I'm elite at QB, OL, and WR, I will be really successful." And he obviously doesn't bring anything as a game manager, defensive mind, or special teams coach.

I've tended to give him the benefit of the doubt as maybe being a good leader and a "CEO type" head coach. But his teams have been so incredibly sloppy lately that I don't think that's true either.

I legitimately believe he's one of the worst head coaches in the NFL.
 

milani

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I'm not sure how LaFleur will do once Rodgers is gone, but all we can do is compare the two coaches for what they both had: Rodgers. And LaFleur has won 13 games in each of his first 3 seasons as the team's head coach. McCarthy only did that twice....INCLUDING the years with Favre.

The combination of LaFleur and Rodgers is just beautiful. I think they compliment each other extremely well. LaFleur at his core (taking who is QB out of it) wants to run the ball a lot. Rodgers at his core wants to throw the ball a lot. I think Rodgers pulls LaFleur out of his run habits a little, and LaFleur pulls Rodgers out of throwing quite as much.

It's a great marriage and I sincerely hope this season is capped off with a Super Bowl and that somehow all parties can figure out a way to keep this thing going.
Aside from the offensive creativity and game planning what I expect to see from a La Fleur coached team will be far less than 14 penalties and a Cowboy team unprepared, and in disarray.
 

red4tribe

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I think McCarthy is a good coach overall, but we needed to fire him when we did, given the disasters that were the 2017 and 2018 seasons. I never thought he was an awful coach as some did though.

I would also add that McCarthy is regularly criticized for only winning one Super Bowl with Rodgers, when other head coaches seem to evade the same kind of criticism. Yes, we would like to have won more than one with McCarthy, but can we take a step back for a moment and recognize how hard it is to win multiple Super Bowls? And how few coach-QB duos have managed to do it in the free agency era?

Shula-Marino 0 Super Bowls
Tomlin-Roethlisberger 1 Super Bowl
Payton-Brees 1 Super Bowl
Dungy-Manning 1 Super Bowl
Carroll-Wilson 1 Super Bowl
Reid-McNabb 0 Super Bowls
Levy-Kelly 0 Super Bowls
Reid-Mahomes 1 Super Bowl (so far)
Seifert-Young 1 Super Bowl
Holmgren-Favre 1 Super Bowl

With the exception of McNabb, all of those QBs are either in the hall of fame or will be in as soon as they are eligible. And I think it's fair to say that most football minds would rate all of those head coaches higher than McCarthy, even though many of them didn't have substantially more success on the field. For whatever reason, McCarthy gets intensely scrutinized for his failures with Rodgers, but people like Tomlin, Payton, etc., who also had hall of fame QBs, get off easy for the most part.

Yeah, maybe if we had a better head coach Rodgers would have won 2 Super Bowls, or perhaps 3 at most. But this idea that he would have won anywhere near as many as Brady, I just don't buy it. Brady basically broke it for everyone. He's set expectations so unrealistically high for everyone else. No one will ever do what he's done again. The only other coach-QB duos in the free agency era that have multiple rings are Shannahan-Elway and Coughlin-Manning and they each have 2. Brady having 6 with Belichick and 7 overall is a true anomaly.
 

captainWIMM

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Possible. But also not guaranteed. We are talking about how risky of a play. And if it was the Cowboys plan to wait for 49ers to pile on and then get a penalty, all the more foolish.

Besides, all the 49ers would have to do is impede Prescott. Stand in his way. We are only talking about 2 seconds or so of disruption to end the game. When the 49ers didn't do that the Cowboys took it upon themselves to get the job done by impeding the ref.

Don't get me wrong, I agree it was a terrible call.
 

Heyjoe4

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Possible. But also not guaranteed. We are talking about how risky of a play. And if it was the Cowboys plan to wait for 49ers to pile on and then get a penalty, all the more foolish.

Besides, all the 49ers would have to do is impede Prescott. Stand in his way. We are only talking about 2 seconds or so of disruption to end the game. When the 49ers didn't do that the Cowboys took it upon themselves to get the job done by impeding the ref.
First of all, it was just a stupid call. Secondly, and for a play they said they practiced, Dak ran about 5 yards further than he should have. Right there the Cowboys probably get the one second they needed. Finally, and again this is a play they say they practice, Dak should have handed the ball to the ref. Again, they may have gotten the second they wanted.

For a QB with an arm like Prescott, I'd rather take two, possibly three throws into the end zone (I don't even know if they had two or three downs left). There's a better chance of an interference call (though not much - refs rarely call it on a Hail Mary).

But really, Dallas never should have been in that position. Chalk up another play to "MM Classic Ways to Lose Important Games".
 

milani

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I think McCarthy is a good coach overall, but we needed to fire him when we did, given the disasters that were the 2017 and 2018 seasons. I never thought he was an awful coach as some did though.

I would also add that McCarthy is regularly criticized for only winning one Super Bowl with Rodgers, when other head coaches seem to evade the same kind of criticism. Yes, we would like to have won more than one with McCarthy, but can we take a step back for a moment and recognize how hard it is to win multiple Super Bowls? And how few coach-QB duos have managed to do it in the free agency era?

Shula-Marino 0 Super Bowls
Tomlin-Roethlisberger 1 Super Bowl
Payton-Brees 1 Super Bowl
Dungy-Manning 1 Super Bowl
Carroll-Wilson 1 Super Bowl
Reid-McNabb 0 Super Bowls
Levy-Kelly 0 Super Bowls
Reid-Mahomes 1 Super Bowl (so far)
Seifert-Young 1 Super Bowl
Holmgren-Favre 1 Super Bowl

With the exception of McNabb, all of those QBs are either in the hall of fame or will be in as soon as they are eligible. And I think it's fair to say that most football minds would rate all of those head coaches higher than McCarthy, even though many of them didn't have substantially more success on the field. For whatever reason, McCarthy gets intensely scrutinized for his failures with Rodgers, but people like Tomlin, Payton, etc., who also had hall of fame QBs, get off easy for the most part.

Yeah, maybe if we had a better head coach Rodgers would have won 2 Super Bowls, or perhaps 3 at most. But this idea that he would have won anywhere near as many as Brady, I just don't buy it. Brady basically broke it for everyone. He's set expectations so unrealistically high for everyone else. No one will ever do what he's done again. The only other coach-QB duos in the free agency era that have multiple rings are Shannahan-Elway and Coughlin-Manning and they each have 2. Brady having 6 with Belichick and 7 overall is a true anomaly.
Winning the SB more than once is one iota but he should have at least gotten there a few more times. 07, 11, 14, and 16? At least 2 of those years were doable. If Brady and Belicheck beat him in the SB, OK.
 

Packerbacker1996

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MM has proven time and again that his in-game management stinks. TT's last 3 to 4 drafts were garbage so its hard to compare MM and MLF since Gute went and signed the Smith's, Amos and Turner to replenish talent when MLF took over. MLF has won a boat load of regular season games but his coaching so far in the playoffs has been inept to say the least. Once AR leaves. we'll find out in a hurry if MFL is special. Could be both coaches were carried by AR.
I have to agree with you. Like I said in another ost no sense having a great team if they going to just keep losing I'm big payoff games and can't win championships.
Personally I think we are going to do it this year. Even with all the great teams that we have to beat to get the crown.

If we do not for whatever reason. Then I hope Roger's doesn't come back and I can't say I would blame him.
If that happens it's time for big sweeping changes. New philosophy bigger tougher smarter more determined D# whatever.

And I agree with you MLF. Time to show us that he can coach in the big games.
 

pacmaniac

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McCarthy has definitely lost it in more ways than one. He can't even motivate his players anymore. He used to be pretty good at that early in his career. He has to get credit for how the 2010 team never trailed in any game by more than 7 points. That was something that hadn't been accomplished in 40 years. I'll also remember his "We're nobody's underdog" quote right before the Patriots game that year without Rodgers. He and Matt Flynn almost pulled off the upset.
 

ARPackFan

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Mike McCarthy is the Forrest Gump of NFL coaches...not to bright and he appears to be in the right place at the right time.
 

Packerbacker1996

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Be careful what you wish for. It might not happen again in our lifetime that the Packers feature another HOF quarterback.
That's fine. Maybe that will force then to build us a tougher team.
Suffocating D# Freight Train run game.
I'm good with a new direction.
 

captainWIMM

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That's fine. Maybe that will force then to build us a tougher team.
Suffocating D# Freight Train run game.
I'm good with a new direction.

A lot of teams have to build a roster without an elite quarterback, most of them aren't successful while doing it.
 

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