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Tightwad Ted: An appeal to ignorance... Focus on Andrew!!!

Discussion in 'Packer Fan Forum' started by all about da packers, Feb 27, 2007.

  1. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    Now I am not calling any member ignorant. An "appeal to ignorance" is a fallacy that I believe a lot of the individuals who call Ted Thompson "tightwad" use.

    It is said that TT is cheap, not one willing to pay up for NFL talent. I'm not gonna argue whether or not that is true here, but I think people's lack of knowledge about Andrew Brandt and his role in contracts often leads people to think of TT as a tightwad.

    Andrew Brandt is the cap guy for the Packers, he is the one who negotiates with the agents, offers contracts, and works out the numbers.

    Therefore, I think it is reasonable to assume that if any free agent player is targeted by the Packers, Brandt will talk with the agent to get an idea of the salary demands. Even if Brandt doesn't talk with the agent, I think it's fair to assume TT passes on info regarding contract demands of targeted players to Brandt.

    I also think TT is too busy with his other GM duties to keep up to date with all the latest financial ongoings in the NFL. Brandt being the one in charge of contracts, I'd think it is logical to assume he would be up to date with what players generally make, what to expect in terms of the value of future contracts, etc.

    That leads me to my point: I think too many people under estimate the role Brandt plays in free agency, both unrestricted and restricted.

    IMO Brandt will have an idea of what a starter/backup at any given position is making. He'll also have an idea of how much the better players at any given position are making.

    When TT and his staff identify a player that they might go after, I think TT goes to Andrew Brandt and asks him to work out an offer that he would deem fair. Then Andrew Brandt discusses the possible role of the player, his age, etc. and figures in all those variables to a final general idea of what would be a decent price to pay for said player.

    Then Ted and Andrew, together, discuss what other teams may be interested and how that may drive up the value of the player.

    In the end, I think Brandt, and to a lesser extent TT, establish a ballpark figure of the max a player is worth. I think in that regard, Brandt takes the lead and with his knowledge and experience works out a general idea of what fair value to both sides would be.

    When TT is said to be too cheap, I think too many people blame the wrong guy.


    Now in terms of the disparity between former GM Sherman dishing out big bucks vs TT being more conservative, although both had Brandt working for them:

    In reference to former GM Sherman and his free spending, I would have to think he told Brandt to get a deal done by any means necessary, thus overpaying some players. With TT, I think Brandt is told to keep a modest lid on the money figures, so we don't see as many high figures being thrown out there.

    I believe Brandt is still the one who decides on a fair price value, and brings that number to Ted and things progress from there.

    By my thinking, that makes Andrew Brandt an extremely important piece of the puzzle, and a piece that may have more of an influence than any other person in the front office (besides TT's final decision making) on who the Packers sign and resign.
     
  2. net

    net Cheesehead

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    Ok, I'll take the bait thread.

    Here's my take on TT: someone between the date of his hiring and today put his arm around Ted's shoulder and gave him some advice: start acquiring some players to help Brett Favre.

    Ted's rep(as per a couple of people in the know)in Seattle was "Tightwad".
    He always wanted to draft vs. pay for a vet. He brought the same idea to Green Bay in year one.(caveat: Mike Sherman had run the salary cap near the peak, but there was cap room available but he didn't use it).

    Ted wanted to rebirth the Packers via the draft. Nice idea, two problems. His first draft wasn't that great, and Brett Favre wanted to hang around. Contrary to most reports, ol' Ted wanted Brett to go so he could develop Rodgers or another QB. Problem is, Brett stayed.

    So the gears got shifted to find some vets to help. Also factoring in was the ridiculously high salary cap. The cap has grown tremendously in the past two years, enabling teams to sign more of their current players and shop for others. So Ted caught a break in the cap, and he took the advice of someone I presume above him: don't destroy the team to rebuild it. You can both rebuild and contend at the same time, ala New England.

    Some of the info comes from a person who knows a person inside. I haven't spoken via email to this person in quite sometime, but today's Ted, isn't the same Ted who came to the Packers in terms of viewpoint. His viewpoint has matured and quite frankly, I find myself agreeing with his moves on a fairly consistent basis.
     
  3. digsthepack

    digsthepack Cheesehead

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    TT, MM and Brett himself have indicated that the current Packers regime wanted Favre around and communicated that from day one.

    The "TT wants to run Brett out of town" bit is getting old.
     
  4. all about da packers

    all about da packers Cheesehead

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    net, don't you think Andrew Brandt also plays an important part in terms of getting players signed?

    If so, then why is TT considered cheap when it is Brandt who handles all the negotiations?

    Don't get me wrong, I think Brandt is a great cap guy, but if cheapness of offers is the problem then doesn't that fall on Brandt's shoulders since he negotiates or offers the contracts and talks with the player agents?
     
  5. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    I think it is a combination of Ted, Andrew, Mike M that say who is worthy of getting a contract..

    I have said it on more then one occasion that Andrew is the one that is in the meetings and gets the guys signed..I know when I 1st learned of Andrew having a HUGE role is when A Rodgers was in talks trying to get signed..Ted was quoted as saying Andrew and the agent were working their butts off trying to get a deal done..

    However, Ted does, or should have the final say on the contracts..
     
  6. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: Tightwad Ted: An appeal to ignorance... Focus on Andrew!

    Net~~
    I know you have stated that your inside source has said that Ted didnt want Brett around and that he had a oral agreement with Bates, then Bates called Brett and it ticked off Ted so thats why he pulled the deal away..

    But I also know someone inside, and I approached him with your claims..And he told me it wasnt likely, in fact his 1st words were that was one of the funniest things he ever heard...

    So while either one of those can't really be proven, we have to make up our own minds..

    The only thing that people can go on in thinking Ted wanted Brett gone is he hasnt gone gang busters to get surrounding VET talent..But theres one flaw with "tightwad" and not wanting Brett back..

    If he has not changed his style to much from Seattle to here, how can people claim he wanted Brett out by not going after vets to surround Brett with?? Also with that statement you made, your sort of admitting Ted was a major COG in making them a SB team..


    If Ted would have wanted him gone he would have found a way...

    ** edited the word COG**
     
  7. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    Re: Tightwad Ted: An appeal to ignorance... Focus on Andrew!

    I think you mean cog. hahaha. those little editing errors bite you in the *** sometimes!
     
  8. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    oh, and i don't think ted is tight either. he payed big for a few select free agents last year. jenkins' contract is not conservative. and yes, i believe that a guy like brandt is necessary. i can't imagine an NFL GM succeeding if he micromanaged. that's just way too many balls in the air.
     
  9. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: Tightwad Ted: An appeal to ignorance... Focus on Andrew!

    LOL!

    you are correct meant to say COG..Thanks!
     
  10. refpacker

    refpacker Cheesehead

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    Ted Is a tightwad....Open ur eyes!!!

    Praise to all TT bashers I unite with ur common cause
     
  11. net

    net Cheesehead

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    And you believe everything they say?
     
  12. net

    net Cheesehead

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    Who signs Brandt's paycheck?
     
  13. net

    net Cheesehead

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    Odd, but I thought I was agreeing with the general premis that Ted is doing Ok now.

    Please note that anyone can mouth the company line. The complete truth is never the company line.

    I merely told you something from a person who told me they talked to someone "in the know". You can take it or leave it at that point...

    as we can take or leave anyone else's inside info.
     
  14. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: Tightwad Ted: An appeal to ignorance... Focus on Andrew!

    Isnt it possible that Ted tells Andrew this..They want certain player X..Ted says the limit is 25 million for 5 years ( JUST A NUMBER I AM TOSSING OUT)

    Andrew and agent talk and agent says 5 years 20 million..But at last second Andrew says no to that...And Ted agrees, I think that is what AADP is sort of saying...While Ted has final say he might really listen to the advice Andrew gives him..
     
  15. Bobby Roberts

    Bobby Roberts Cheesehead

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    Interesting argument and fun fodder for the offseason, but irrelevant nonetheless.

    During last offseason, Brandt was quoted as saying that GB could have signed Wahle during TT's first year. It would have required reworking some contracts and not making some other moves, but it could have been done. It was TT's decision not to make the move.

    Basically I'm rather confident that Brandt provides the information for TT about the cost of certain players. From there TT decides what to do. If it's negotiate a contract, I think that TT sets a limit for Brandt and he goes from there.

    Brandt's role was the same with Sherman, but Sherman's decisions on how to spend the money was obviously different.

    With these reasonable assumptions on Brandt's role, I believe it's completely accurate to claim that TT is the tightwad, not Brandt. Thusfar no one has produced any evidence to the refute that Brandt's role is exactly what I just stated. On the flip side, Brandt himself stated that TT makes the decisions on who to go after.

    GO PACK GO!!!
     
  16. porky88

    porky88 Cheesehead

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    Re: Tightwad Ted: An appeal to ignorance... Focus on Andrew!

    Who is your source and why do you believe him?

    Also if you don't want to give names to the public then pm me. I have a source too and everything you've said does not match with what I've heard.
     
  17. bozz_2006

    bozz_2006 Cheesehead

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    i want a source.
     
  18. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: Tightwad Ted: An appeal to ignorance... Focus on Andrew!

    That is how I feel as well..

    My source knew of Rodgers breaking his foot the day of the game, ( I seem to recall posting that, and someone asked for a link), along with players that were going to be signed even b4 the public knew the team was looking at those players..

    I dont doubt Net's source is saying these things, rather I am doubting that the source might be stretching the truth alot
     
  19. warhawk

    warhawk Cheesehead

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    As I have said before the whole TT is a tightwad thing is a joke as far as I am concerned.

    It all started with the Wahle thing. I have heard the part where Brandt said it "could have been done". Next question. Would it have been worth it?

    Your talking about cutting guys and signing lesser players to lesser contracts, and, or, reworking older players contracts ultimately paying them more in later years. Signing off to the devil is what it really is.

    Were we really deep enough to even think about it? I can't remember a backup player that didn't make me shutter when they went in in '05. Hell, a lot of starters made me shutter.

    Panning off and worring about money later when you KNOW for a fact there will be players you won't want to lose that could be gone because mortgaged contracts leave the well dry.

    Could it be that TT saw an "0" line getting old fast and rather than finance the farm for the umpteenth time because I gotta tell you I'm just fine with Flanny and Wahle and Rivera being gone.

    It won't be long and they'll be looking for replacements for the last two that came on board on what was at one time a great line. The tackles.

    Turnover. It's a reality but something MS couldn't grasp.

    He would have made a great Mortician. He would have kept playing the same guys until they died.
     
  20. longtimefan

    longtimefan Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

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    Re: Tightwad Ted: An appeal to ignorance... Focus on Andrew!

    This is a REALLY good article found on Interview with andrew

     
  21. tabojc03

    tabojc03 Cheesehead

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    Very good article, and it restates alot of what Brandt says on the radio whenever he is interviewed.....The funny thing about arguing about sources are, "Sources are like A** holes, everyone has one." I don't know who lives in Green Bay or not, but I could go to the local gas station and the kid behind the counter has an inside source or knows someone who has a source. I'm just surprised all these sources people have that are reliable yet the local and national columnists who have been doing their job for years upon years don't know these sources. That's why rumors are rumors not fact so don't argue and say but my source said this and your source is wrong because 90% posted never happened in the first place, so if someone believes in the source fine its their opinion to believe that source. The same way I'm stating my opinion right now.
     

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